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  • #61
    I also (before BP coffee) used to have a cup In The Afternoon but now with this rich healthy concoction I NEVER AND MEAN NEVER want coffee any other time. Totally satisfied

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    • #62
      I only drink for taste not an energy hit because than u crave It also never any sugar

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Drumroll View Post
        Don't get me wrong, I love my yerba mate, and my daily habit won't be ending anything soon! Caffeine fiend here for sure. Heh. And it DOES raise body temps and metabolism unquestionably from my experiences with it.

        But...

        Caffeine raises metabolism, yes, but it seems to do so in a manner independent of thyroid status.

        [/TiredOfTheBodyTempEqualsThyroidMeme]
        ^^^ Soooo this!

        The most of caffeine studies tend to connect the slight thermogenic effect to stress and raised adrenaline levels. If that was so simple as increased thyroid activity, it'd be long well known. But, so far, no research could be found that connects any thyroid-like action and caffeine consumption.
        Many many things, apart from caffeine, tend to be slightly thermogenic, including... spices, HIIT and saunas. The difference is these won't give you withdrawal symptoms when you don't do them every morning

        In general- Peat's such as he is, but his views on caffeine are seriously flawed.

        BTW- not saying I'm totally against caffeine, and I personally indulge too often. Just don't like when people tend to view caffeine beverages as "god-sent", not ever trying to live without them for longer than a couple of days and, even more, ignoring the basic and well-known science about it.

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        • #64
          Haven't touched the stuff in years - maybe a decade or so.

          Just one cup will affect my sleep for at least a day and a half. Turns me into a zombie on the second day, so I just can't do it. Will risk a very occassional decaf, but only if I can afford a bad nights sleep.

          Even too much chocolate late in the day (like, half a block when I haven't worked up to having that much) will make for a poor nights sleep. But I do love chocolate......

          I read it was something to do with second stage liver detoxing and maybe is a hangover from an old bout of hepatitis A.

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          • #65
            I love coffee. I drink it with either light coconut milk or milk + gelatin. It's my "breakfast." I don't really increase my intake at all...not even around exam times. It's kind of just a routine for me.
            JOURNAL..
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            Gelatin/bone broth recipes blog.
            Professional Style Website.
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            • #66
              Originally posted by mikekola View Post
              ^^^ Soooo this!

              The most of caffeine studies tend to connect the slight thermogenic effect to stress and raised adrenaline levels. If that was so simple as increased thyroid activity, it'd be long well known. But, so far, no research could be found that connects any thyroid-like action and caffeine consumption.
              Many many things, apart from caffeine, tend to be slightly thermogenic, including... spices, HIIT and saunas. The difference is these won't give you withdrawal symptoms when you don't do them every morning

              In general- Peat's such as he is, but his views on caffeine are seriously flawed.

              BTW- not saying I'm totally against caffeine, and I personally indulge too often. Just don't like when people tend to view caffeine beverages as "god-sent", not ever trying to live without them for longer than a couple of days and, even more, ignoring the basic and well-known science about it.
              Actually, and call me a heretic if you want, but I think Peat mentions a lot of interesting things about the biochemistry of coffee that I've kind of hoped others would look into more closely. It's just his assertion that ANYTHING that raises metabolism and body temperature must be due to thyroid protective mechanisms that grates me.

              Like I said, body temp =\= thyroid in all cases. That's a reductionist view and over simplification of how not only the thyroid works, but all of the other complicated systems that play into thyroid metabolism in some way (read the majority of the human body).
              "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

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              • #67
                Caffeine tends to help a lot of "odd" people focus our thoughts and get stuff done, keep our heads out of the clouds. Asperger's, ADHD, and similar types of folks are said to benefit from tea and coffee alike.
                Crohn's, doing SCD

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                • #68
                  It's a a social aspect of life. Look around the world at all the different ethnic groups consuming coffee. Only here or in Western societies are we so damn concerned about the caffeine. I believe one has to dig a little deeper Than the caffeine aspect of coffee and look at other parts of their daily routine to tweak. Long live JAVA

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                  • #69
                    Do you drink coffee?

                    Agree on the social component. Additionally, I have done a lot of business meetings at coffee shops too. Creative industry people don't always have offices...
                    JOURNAL..
                    @BabesWithBBQ.
                    Gelatin/bone broth recipes blog.
                    Professional Style Website.
                    #TeamBrisket Shirts

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                    • #70
                      Nope - never have. I just don't really like the taste (love the smell though).

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                      • #71
                        Coffee is one of those things that, similar to dairy, I believe that if you have an issue with it is indicative of an underlying health problem.

                        Lactose intolerance, for example, is not an issue with lactase production but rather an issue with a disregulated gut. If you are "lactose intolerant," your digestive system is unhealthy. Lactose is broken down by gut critters, so lactase production is not important and a red herring of sorts for people out against dairy for some reason.

                        Similar to this are outdoor allergies. This is a great article for everyone to read:

                        Pollen is Not the Problem

                        I have confirmed the effects of this article. I used to have terrible allergies and now I'm largely cured aside from mild pet allergies. They continue to improve. It's funny that pasteurized dairy is their #1 trigger. Why? Because if you have autoimmune conditions such as seasonal allergies, you probably have an unhealthy gut and therefore a lactose issue to some degree as well.

                        So where does coffee come in? You're dealing with a very potent substance that requires a healthy gut to process. Cocoa is like this as well. Sure, you could have some kind of rare coffee allergy. Hell, it happens with shellfish and shellfish are one of the most nutritious foods on Earth. But most intolerances are our fault and not nature's fault.

                        Milk isn't the problem, you're the problem.
                        Coffee isn't the problem, you're the problem.
                        Pollen isn't the problem, you're the problem.

                        If you have a mouthful of pollen, I don't care who you are, it's going to make you cough a bit. Similarly, 9 cups of coffee a day is probably way too much, just like 9 lbs of meat a day would be too much. But a cup of coffee a day should be healthful for just about anyone on Earth outside of some anomaly.

                        Originally posted by mikekola View Post
                        1. You are saying "who cares about caffeine", just to admit that you like the caffeine effects in coffee. Pulse, temperature (if that reallly happens- not to me) raise etc. are all the effects of stress stimulation. Based on blocking the adenosine receptor.

                        2. The above effect is counteracted by our body with increasing the number of such receptors, so caffeine stimulative effects disappear with time, very quickly.
                        For me, it's as soon as 3-4 days when I feel "normal" drinking it, but super-fatigued when I don't. The initial boost and rush is the first 2-3 days at most.
                        Don't you think that body, unnaturally increasing the number of adenosine receptors, tries to fight and counteract caffeine? If so- is the caffeine effect really that healthful in the first place?

                        3. Caffeine withdrawal, so down-regulating adenosine receptors, can take up to a couple of weeks. It's really unfair to judge how "great" caffeine is after one or two days without it.
                        Considering 80% of American population addicted to it, it's quite hard to find a good example of someone not really addicted to assess real differences between consuming and not consuming the stuff. The available studies however clearly state that for habitual coffee drinkers, caffeine rush is really just fighting the withdrawal and not the actual improvement of body functions.

                        If coffee perks you up, you need to STOP drinking it | Mail Online

                        Personally, I'd even say that every single "positive" effect you can observe from caffeine fades away with time, as you get accustomed to the substance.

                        4. Present just one scientific study, and not Ray Peat's imagination, to prove caffeine actually does anything to thyroid.
                        FYI - that article is stupid. Coffee raises your body temperature and increases the metabolic rate. Processes increase. Coffee SHOULD perk you up, and it's the reason why you drink it. Anything that speeds up your metabolism should give you more energy by definition.
                        Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                          I have confirmed the effects of this article. I used to have terrible allergies and now I'm largely cured aside from mild pet allergies. They continue to improve. It's funny that pasteurized dairy is their #1 trigger. Why? Because if you have autoimmune conditions such as seasonal allergies, you probably have an unhealthy gut and therefore a lactose issue to some degree as well.

                          So where does coffee come in? You're dealing with a very potent substance that requires a healthy gut to process. Cocoa is like this as well. Sure, you could have some kind of rare coffee allergy. Hell, it happens with shellfish and shellfish are one of the most nutritious foods on Earth. But most intolerances are our fault and not nature's fault.

                          Milk isn't the problem, you're the problem.
                          Coffee isn't the problem, you're the problem.
                          Pollen isn't the problem, you're the problem.

                          If you have a mouthful of pollen, I don't care who you are, it's going to make you cough a bit. Similarly, 9 cups of coffee a day is probably way too much, just like 9 lbs of meat a day would be too much. But a cup of coffee a day should be healthful for just about anyone on Earth outside of some anomaly.
                          I normally agree with you about carbs:fat, calories, etc., but I just can't get behind this. Pollen allergies aren't really analogous to milk/coffee tolerance. Pollen is an inescapable component of all natural human environments (aside from some extreme locations); cow's milk and coffee are not. Do I agree that moderate quantities shouldn't be a problem for most? Absolutely, but there's disparity as to what constitutes a modest quantity.

                          A coffee tree will produce about 2 pounds of coffee beans per year - if you brew a 12oz. cup daily using 17 grams of beans, 2 pounds will give you coffee for 53 days (possibly less when you consider that roasted beans lose 20% of their weight). Taking into account the amount of work required to harvest, wash, dry, roast, grind, and brew coffee, it seems highly unlikely that consuming 7 trees' worth of coffee beans annually was a ubiquitous behavior throughout human history. It would seem to make sense that some people are better adapted to drinking it than others.

                          Note that I am not saying you shouldn't drink coffee, nor am I saying you shouldn't drink it every day - the point I'm making is that if you don't tolerate coffee well, it is definitely not a sign that you are in ill health. Coffee is awesome, and if you can drink it without problem, that's great! Different foods work for different people.
                          Last edited by tarek; 04-24-2014, 01:58 PM.

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                          • #73
                            @ ChocoTaco369

                            I don't think it matters how people "handle" caffeine; I personally can handle it very well.

                            Regardless of what you say about it and what you compare it to, that's a STIMULANT and a DRUG, that crosses blood/brain barrier and has a direct effect on various receptors in brain. It affects everybody in the same way from the physiological perspective. Period. There is a ton of scientific literature about that.


                            By no means can caffeine be compared to any micro/macro nutrient. It's a drug/stimulant.
                            Is it positive to health- maybe, maybe not. Does it alter our thinking and emotions- hell yes! Is this effect positive- it depends. What differs is how one perceives the caffeine effect. So if someone doesn't feel comfortable ingesting caffeine, I think it's perfectly OK not to consume it. And, for God's sake, it doesn't mean someone has a problem with health just because he doesn't like caffeine's effects.

                            I would rather look for a health problem in those who are addicted to continuous, round-the-clock consumption of caffeine and can't go without it for more than a couple of hours.

                            For the article- the title is misleading. The key information there is that habitual caffeine consumption just brings you to normal and your performance is the same as of the ones who don't consume it at all. And there's a lot of science about this particular effect as well; caffeine increases thinking speed, but not its quality, LOL

                            Side note- if caffeine's thermogenic and metabolic effects are so great, why don't you go ahead and recommend clenbuterol, amphetamine or even stronger stimulants?
                            Last edited by mikekola; 04-24-2014, 04:51 PM.

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                            • #74
                              The so called "DAIRY ISSUE"
                              I would dare say that the dairy most people consume is conventional not full fat and pasteurized. If the people who claim they have a problem with dairy have not tried organic GF RAW full fat dairy Then there lies the potential issue. Source the highest quality RAW GF ORGANIC full fat dairy and then slowly to introduce this into your diet. And this very healthy dairy is rich and tasty therefore one does not need to eat/drink a big portion at a time. This is retraining yourself and conditioning yourself. Be patient too it can take a few weeks again because this is new to your body. Go ahead don't be frightened it is DELICIOUS AND HEALTHY and no comparison at all to conventional dairy. The most exciting thing is we are coming into the very best optimal time of year to consume this- BRAND NEW YOUNG TENDER GREEN GRASS!!

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by tarek View Post
                                I normally agree with you about carbs:fat, calories, etc., but I just can't get behind this. Pollen allergies aren't really analogous to milk/coffee tolerance. Pollen is an inescapable component of all natural human environments (aside from some extreme locations); cow's milk and coffee are not. Do I agree that moderate quantities shouldn't be a problem for most? Absolutely, but there's disparity as to what constitutes a modest quantity.
                                I think you're missing my point. If you get a large mouthful of pollen, I expect you to cough. It's immediately overwhelming - you're going to have a respiratory reaction. The same thing will happen if you get a big puff of dirt, or God forbid some kind of spices in the kitchen, inhaled through your nose. If I get dust from milling out a roadway at work, or a big puff of chili powder up my nose in the kitchen, I'm going to cough and sneeze like no tomorrow.

                                But then it'll clear up. I'm not allergic to chili powder and concrete dust.

                                I'm talking about hay fever. Constant, chronic itchy, watery eyes and a runny nose. Constant sneezing and misery.

                                Pollen allergies, lactose intolerance and food intolerances in general are almost always autoimmune conditions. In these cases, you're the problem.

                                Originally posted by tarek View Post
                                A coffee tree will produce about 2 pounds of coffee beans per year - if you brew a 12oz. cup daily using 17 grams of beans, 2 pounds will give you coffee for 53 days (possibly less when you consider that roasted beans lose 20% of their weight). Taking into account the amount of work required to harvest, wash, dry, roast, grind, and brew coffee, it seems highly unlikely that consuming 7 trees' worth of coffee beans annually was a ubiquitous behavior throughout human history. It would seem to make sense that some people are better adapted to drinking it than others.
                                You're not consuming 7 trees worth of coffee. You're consuming the water the coffee beans soak in. You're discarding the beans. Your entire point is a fallacy, and it would be like me boiling a 10 pound beef roast in the pot of water, drinking the broth, throwing the entire roast away and claiming I just consumed 10 pounds of beef.

                                Originally posted by tarek View Post
                                Note that I am not saying you shouldn't drink coffee, nor am I saying you shouldn't drink it every day - the point I'm making is that if you don't tolerate coffee well, it is definitely not a sign that you are in ill health. Coffee is awesome, and if you can drink it without problem, that's great! Different foods work for different people.
                                I believe if you can't tolerate a simple cup or two of coffee over the course of a day, you probably have some type of metabolic or digestive issue. That's not normal. I doubt anyone can drink 9 cups of coffee in the morning and tolerate it well, but that's because everything on Earth has a threshold of toxicity including water, air and sunshine. Coffee should have a medicinal threshold for just about everyone, outside of a hypothetical very small group of people that always has to be taken into account.
                                Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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