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Joel Fuhrman vs Weston Price

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  • Joel Fuhrman vs Weston Price

    Can anyone address and respond to the point brought up by Fuhrman and his followers here.

    I've done quite a bit of research and it appears that these guys have more science on their side than most paleo devotees...

    The Misinformation of Barry Groves and Weston Price : Disease Proof

    The Truth About the Weston Price Foundation - Vegsource.com

  • #2
    They cited epidemiology as evidence. I stopped reading there.

    Correlation is not causation!
    My opinions and some justification

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Elliot View Post
      They cited epidemiology as evidence. I stopped reading there.

      Correlation is not causation!
      What????

      How can you ignore the fact that the longest living cultures in the world (blue zones) all eat a primarily plant based diet?

      Comment


      • #4
        A. I don't think that's true.
        B. Correlation is not causation.
        My opinions and some justification

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Giantsbran View Post
          What????

          How can you ignore the fact that the longest living cultures in the world (blue zones) all eat a primarily plant based diet?
          They all eat meat.
          Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Elliot View Post
            A. I don't think that's true.
            B. Correlation is not causation.
            Thankfully whether you think its true or not does not change the fact that it is.

            Look at the local diets of Ikaria, Sardinia, Okinawa, Loma Linda.... All the blue zones. Educate yourself before making assumptions.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
              They all eat meat.
              Who said they dont?

              However they eat it very rarely. Fish is eaten 1 or 2 times a week and pork/beef usually only once a month.

              Veggies/grains/legumes compose the large bulk of their calories.

              Comment


              • #8
                A. You're describing specific societies that happen to be healthy. Other societies, like the Maasai, subsisted on diets emphasizing animal products. They were also quite healthy.

                B. Correlation is not causation!
                My opinions and some justification

                Comment


                • #9
                  blergh.

                  i skimmed and got to this:

                  The dangerous habits of Americans or Europeans who eat only about 5 percent of their caloric intake from fresh produce and the majority of calories from processed foods, does not in anyway make a diet centered on meat health supporting.
                  "processed food" does NOT = meat in my house.

                  5% of calories in a 2000 calorie daily diet is 100 cals. to get 100 cals in vegetables you'd need 11 oz of, say, broccoli, or an entire head of lettuce, and that considerably exceeds the usda rec for servings of vegetables each day.
                  As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

                  Ernest Hemingway

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    OP, is someone here telling you not to eat a lot of plants?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Of course a mindful unprocessed diet of any type will outperform SAD. Is meat such a sticking point? I saw Fuhrman on TV and he kept uttering "meat-and-sugar-and-oil-and-junk food" as one term.

                      If we're admitting anecdata, the vegetarians I'm closest to have the most deranged appetites and health problems.
                      37//6'3"/185

                      My peculiar nutrition glossary and shopping list

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Giantsbran View Post
                        Thankfully whether you think its true or not does not change the fact that it is.

                        Look at the local diets of Ikaria, Sardinia, Okinawa, Loma Linda.... All the blue zones. Educate yourself before making assumptions.
                        Originally posted by Giantsbran View Post
                        Who said they dont?

                        However they eat it very rarely. Fish is eaten 1 or 2 times a week and pork/beef usually only once a month.

                        Veggies/grains/legumes compose the large bulk of their calories.
                        fish and pork traditionally are eaten daily in okinawa (it's an island, ffs):

                        And what do Okinawans eat? The main meat of the diet is pork, and not the lean cuts only. Okinawan cuisine, according to gerontologist Kazuhiko Taira, "is very healthy-and very, very greasy," in a 1996 article that appeared in Health Magazine. And the whole pig is eaten-everything from "tails to nails." Local menus offer boiled pigs feet, entrail soup and shredded ears. Pork is cooked in a mixture of soy sauce, ginger, kelp and small amounts of sugar, then sliced and chopped up for stir fry dishes. Okinawans eat about 100 grams of meat per day-compared to 70 in Japan and just over 20 in China-and at least an equal amount of fish, for a total of about 200 grams per day, compared to 280 grams per person per day of meat and fish in America. Lard-not vegetable oil-is used in cooking. Okinawans also eat plenty of fibrous root crops such as taro and sweet potatoes. They consume rice and noodles, but not as the main component of the diet. They eat a variety of vegetables such as carrots, white radish, cabbage and greens, both fresh and pickled. Bland tofu is part of the diet, consumed in traditional ways, but on the whole Okinawan cuisine is spicy. Pork dishes are flavored with a mixture of ginger and brown sugar, with chili oil and with "the wicked bite of bitter melon."
                        --------------

                        19. Deborah Franklyn, "Take a Lesson from the
                        People of Okinawa," Health, September 1996, pp 57-63
                        As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

                        Ernest Hemingway

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          although sardinia is an island, its ancient cuisine was more meat- and dairy-based as the people were forced into a mountain refuge lifestyle by centuries of invaders. they were shepherds, so lots of lamb and their cheeses as well as suckling pig and wild boar for protein. they have hundreds of varieties of preserved meats. the modern cessation of warfare brought them finally down to the coast so fish is far more prevalent in the diet than in the past.

                          sardinia retains a relatively small population (about 1 million) with a pretty small gene pool. scientists studying the region have identified a gene in the "y" chromosome that can greatly reduce heart attack and stroke in men. this gene, passed down from fathers to sons, may explain the ratio of male-female centenarians in the region, which is about 1:1, while the ratio is generally 1:4 world-wide.

                          perhaps it's genetics in sardinia playing a bigger role in lifespan than would be convenient for blue zone peeps to admit?
                          Last edited by noodletoy; 04-19-2014, 09:06 AM.
                          As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

                          Ernest Hemingway

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Elliot View Post
                            A. You're describing specific societies that happen to be healthy. Other societies, like the Maasai, subsisted on diets emphasizing animal products. They were also quite healthy.

                            B. Correlation is not causation!


                            The maasai being healthy. Aint that a laugh.

                            Stop listening to your paleo gods and research yourself. They are far from healthy. Same with the innuits. Go visit an innuit tribe that lives on meat and lard. They are far from thriving and heart disease is rampant.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              They are far from healthy
                              Is this before or after they adopted modern foods?

                              Also, this is all irrelevant, because...

                              Correlation is not causation
                              My opinions and some justification

                              Comment

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