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  • question about calorie content

    Mark,
    Let's say you decide to eat a 2,000 calorie diet. Is the premise of the book that the content of those calories will mean the difference between losing and gaining weight? So if the calories from carbohydrates were less than 50 grams vs 300 grams in the second case would you lose vs. gain in this case?

  • #2
    I wouldn't say it's "the" premise of the book. However, the answer to your question is "yes." It's called the metabolic advantage of a ketogenic diet: http://backacrosstheline.blogspot.co...arb-diets.html

    feeding of a ketogenic diet with a high content of fat and very low carbohydrate leads to distinct changes in metabolism and gene expression that appear consistent with the increased metabolism and lean phenotype seen. Through a specific dietary manipulation, weight loss can occur secondary to distinct metabolic changes and without caloric restriction

    Comment


    • #3
      I'm going to ruffle a lot of feathers...

      In it's most basic form, weight loss and fat loss boil down to calories in versus calories out. Now, macro-nutritent %s, will affect how you feel, energy levels, hunger levels, and the amount of protein will affect body composition (loss of lean vs fat tissue).

      Low carb dieting works. However, so does high carb dieting. Depending on your specific body type and response to insulin, one or the other may work better for you. People tend to immediately lose 10-15lbs with a PB style diet, bc generally they are moving from a very high carb, calorie surplus diet to a maintenance/sub maintenance low carb plan. A shift to a low in carb diet tends to signal the body to release water, quickly lowering body-weight and perceived fat levels.

      Now, as for long term health... That is another story. I am under the opinion that a PB style diet, modified for your unique body is probably the best for long term quality of life.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Raleighwood View Post
        I'm going to ruffle a lot of feathers...

        In it's most basic form, weight loss and fat loss boil down to calories in versus calories out. Now, macro-nutritent %s, will affect how you feel, energy levels, hunger levels, and the amount of protein will affect body composition (loss of lean vs fat tissue).

        Low carb dieting works. However, so does high carb dieting. Depending on your specific body type and response to insulin, one or the other may work better for you. People tend to immediately lose 10-15lbs with a PB style diet, bc generally they are moving from a very high carb, calorie surplus diet to a maintenance/sub maintenance low carb plan. A shift to a low in carb diet tends to signal the body to release water, quickly lowering body-weight and perceived fat levels.

        Now, as for long term health... That is another story. I am under the opinion that a PB style diet, modified for your unique body is probably the best for long term quality of life.
        I beg to differ, with unruffled feathers. I have done a lot of research on this topic, and I do believe that there is a metabolic advantage to eating low carb. I use myself as an example:

        Eating high carb, low fat, 1,000 calories will maintain my weight.
        Eating low carb, high fat, 2,000 calories will maintain my weight.

        A calorie is not a calorie is not a calorie. Calories effect our bodies in different ways, depending on their impact on blood sugar and insulin release. This is the underlying research behind all low carb diets. It's why low carb works.
        Rebecca

        Right click here to watch me lose 22.5 pounds of body fat and gain 5.5 pounds of muscle in only 5 months right before your eyes in this cool morphing video!

        Click the banner below to visit my blog:

        sigpic

        Feb 2009 - 158 pounds - 43.6% body fat
        Aug 2013 - 138 pounds - 34.3% body fat
        So far, lost 19.8 pounds of body fat and gained 1.8 pounds of lean mass
        Goal - 136 pounds - 30% body fat
        Still need to lose 6.4 more pounds of body fat and gain 4.2 more pounds of lean mass

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by RSL View Post
          I beg to differ, with unruffled feathers. I have done a lot of research on this topic, and I do believe that there is a metabolic advantage to eating low carb. I use myself as an example:

          Eating high carb, low fat, 1,000 calories will maintain my weight.
          Eating low carb, high fat, 2,000 calories will maintain my weight.

          A calorie is not a calorie is not a calorie. Calories effect our bodies in different ways, depending on their impact on blood sugar and insulin release. This is the underlying research behind all low carb diets. It's why low carb works.
          +1

          Comment


          • #6
            Oh, and to read more about that subject, take a look at this website where it explains why people are gaining weight, and it has to do with the macronutrient issue:

            http://www.why-low-carb-diets-work.com
            Rebecca

            Right click here to watch me lose 22.5 pounds of body fat and gain 5.5 pounds of muscle in only 5 months right before your eyes in this cool morphing video!

            Click the banner below to visit my blog:

            sigpic

            Feb 2009 - 158 pounds - 43.6% body fat
            Aug 2013 - 138 pounds - 34.3% body fat
            So far, lost 19.8 pounds of body fat and gained 1.8 pounds of lean mass
            Goal - 136 pounds - 30% body fat
            Still need to lose 6.4 more pounds of body fat and gain 4.2 more pounds of lean mass

            Comment


            • #7
              I am very skeptical of your example. There are MANY unique and individual factors that can influence your experiences. Holding all things constant, a 100% difference in calorie intake is not going to result in the same maintenance of body weight. It's not possible. Your resting BMR rate is not going to become 100% faster simply by modifying your carb/fat levels, holding all other behaviors constant..

              Generally, when protein is is controlled, weight loss differences between low fat/carb diets are negligible. The reason many people tout the the successes of low carb diets is due to the fact that on a low carb diet high protein intake is easily achieved. Protein is generally accompanied by fat, not carbs.

              However, in a high carb diet, proper protein intake is harder to achieve. Therefore the results will differ.

              I will agree with you that calorie source is important, especially in regard to the protein intake. However, in terms of carb/fat %s the difference in fat-loss/gain is negligible.

              Comment


              • #8
                Ooer, that's interesting. Which study are you referring to?
                Stabbing conventional wisdom in its face.

                Anyone who wants to talk nutrition should PM me!

                Comment


                • #9
                  This isn't a study, but it sums up the ideas. When I have some time I will try to dig up my specific examples.

                  http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat...a-calorie.html

                  And just for clarity's sake: I am not knocking low carb diets. They work. I also believe, if followed PB style, the health benefits on the long term are more positive.

                  However, it's annoying to me when people are myopic or dogmatic and completely dismiss all other methods or ideas (be it dieting, religion, ect.)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Here is an article that lists many of the studies that support my argument.

                    http://www.maxcondition.com/page.php?152
                    Last edited by Raleighwood; 05-24-2010, 05:06 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Well, I have my own personal take on the matter.

                      I've been through SO many doctors, dietitians, nutritionists who all told me that I must be cheating when I would show them my food & exercise diaries. For 8 solid months I ate 1200 calories a day and worked out doing cardio and a little bit of weights for 90 minutes per day 4-5 times per week. According to *MY* numbers I should have been loosing 2-3 lbs per week if not more. In 1998, I came across atkins, and did it for a while, I saw a little bit of weight loss (finally!) and I finally got a regular menstrual cycle and began to get pregnant (according to doctors, if I wanted to get pregnant, I had to loose weight). However I went to far to the extreme, as at the time, I was still thinking that all that fat couldn't be good. I ended up getting really sick, not enough calories, too much exercise and not near enough fat apparently.

                      Even last year when I went to my new OBGYN for blood work to check hormone levels, he informed me that I just needed to stop finishing off my kids meals and run faster and harder on my runs. *facepalm*

                      On a CW "healthy" diet, I can quite literally run 5Ks a day, do a weight regime and eat 1500 calories a day, and not loose a freaking pound. Alternatively I can eat way more than that and sit on my arse and not gain or loose a pound. My body likes a particular weight. I on the other hand do not.

                      I know that this way of eating is right for me. I'm envious that its so easy for some of you to jump on the wagon and get instant results. But I beleive that if I persist, I will be able to be healthy, fit and lean.

                      I will find the answer for me. I know that I'm on the right track, I just need to get the right combo of carbs/protein and fat.
                      SW: 235
                      CW:220
                      Rough start due to major carb WD.

                      MWF: 1 hour run/walk, 1.5 hours in the gym - upper/lower and core
                      Sat/Sun=Yard/house work, chasing kids, playing
                      Family walk every night instead of everyone vegging in front of the TV
                      Personal trainer to build muscle mass & to help meet goals

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Raleighwood View Post
                        I am very skeptical of your example. There are MANY unique and individual factors that can influence your experiences. Holding all things constant, a 100% difference in calorie intake is not going to result in the same maintenance of body weight. It's not possible. Your resting BMR rate is not going to become 100% faster simply by modifying your carb/fat levels, holding all other behaviors constant.
                        It's okay for you to be skeptical. All I can say is that it is true.

                        So what I hear you saying is that you disagree with Gary Taubes and Mark Sisson and all the others who have claimed that there is a metabolic advantage and that Calories In Calories Out has, shall we say, major flaws?
                        Rebecca

                        Right click here to watch me lose 22.5 pounds of body fat and gain 5.5 pounds of muscle in only 5 months right before your eyes in this cool morphing video!

                        Click the banner below to visit my blog:

                        sigpic

                        Feb 2009 - 158 pounds - 43.6% body fat
                        Aug 2013 - 138 pounds - 34.3% body fat
                        So far, lost 19.8 pounds of body fat and gained 1.8 pounds of lean mass
                        Goal - 136 pounds - 30% body fat
                        Still need to lose 6.4 more pounds of body fat and gain 4.2 more pounds of lean mass

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I think the macronutirents matter if you have insulin resistance. If you don't, as long as you are consuming paleo style foods, it shouldn't really matter what the macronutrient percentage is between fat and carb. It is the wheat, the empty calories of other grains and sugar, and the vegetable oils that I think are the major culprits.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Dr. Michael Eades, author of Protein Power, and a strong advocate of low carb has cited several studies to show that the "metabolic advantage" is at most 300 cal daily and probably closer to 200 on average. He also says that it differs by individual, and for some there might not be much advantage at all. He's put his emphasis on the healthy aspects of low carb eating, which is why I personally eat Primal.

                            I can actually gain on very low carb because I somehow don't get any appetitle suppressant effect from ketosis. If I allowed myself to eat without limit, I could easily gain (love my meat!)--and have.

                            Even Eades admits that low carb 'works' to lose weight because it usually naturally creates a caloric deficit, as people (not me, but others) automatically eat less when they're in ketosis. But he argues that when people say low carb "isn't working" for them, the problem is almost always too many calories.

                            There are some problems with 'calories in, calories out' because there are people with specific food sensitivities or hormonal/metabolic issues that are significant factors. But they often relate to calories. For example, if I eat carbs (bread, pasta, rice), I will get an insatiable appetite, but the amount of food that I eat to satisfy my hunger will seem 'normal' to me. If I'm eating low carb and satisfy my appetite, it will be with much less food. So it's not the lack of carbs that helps me lose so much as the fact that without carbs, I will eat fewer calories.

                            If people are eating Primal and want to lose weight but don't seem to be able to do so, the place to look is the amount of food consumed--i.e., calories. Without a caloric deficit, you won't lose no matter what you're eating.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Here is a really extreme example, one that might not happen in real life, but is extreme to make a point:

                              Let's say there is a person who has determined that he needs 1800 calories to maintain his weight.

                              Is there a difference between eating 1800 calories of all carbs and eating 1800 calories of all fat and protein?

                              I say there is. If the person was eating 1800 calories of all carbs (which would equal 450 grams of carbs per day), even good, PB carbs, the amount of blood glucose would go way up, excess insulin would be produced, and fat would be stored. If he ate only fat and protein, this fat storing mechanism would not come into play.

                              The reason that the PB and other low/controlled carb diets work, is because carbs, which, when eaten in extremes, cause spikes in blood glucose and fat storage is the result. Lower the carbs, and replace those calories with fat and protein, and insulin is regulated and fat storage is reduced.

                              I maintain that if a person eats a reasonable amount of calories that is 70% fat, 20% protein and 10% carbs, that person will regulate blood glucose and reduce fat storage.

                              If that same person eats that same amount of calories that is 20% fat, 20% protein and 60% carbs, that person will probably not regulate blood sugar and fat storage will increase.
                              Rebecca

                              Right click here to watch me lose 22.5 pounds of body fat and gain 5.5 pounds of muscle in only 5 months right before your eyes in this cool morphing video!

                              Click the banner below to visit my blog:

                              sigpic

                              Feb 2009 - 158 pounds - 43.6% body fat
                              Aug 2013 - 138 pounds - 34.3% body fat
                              So far, lost 19.8 pounds of body fat and gained 1.8 pounds of lean mass
                              Goal - 136 pounds - 30% body fat
                              Still need to lose 6.4 more pounds of body fat and gain 4.2 more pounds of lean mass

                              Comment

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