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Vegans attack! :D

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  • Vegans attack! :D

    Someone fwd this link to me, with the titte "you are gonna dieee" a friend of mine who always debates me...

    http://www.diseaseproof.com/archives...ve-longer.html

    Thoughts?

  • #2
    I can't be bothered reading anything put forward by vegans. Veganism is almost always a dogma, based on ideas about animal welfare and so they are making the science fit the hypothesis.

    I'm interested in reading genuine science: the PB is always in a state of flux as it is open to new scientific information, not merey pushing a political wheelbarrow.

    Comment


    • #3
      I won't waste my time but I recognize the site. It's Joel Furhman a work again. I have read Eat to Live and was rather disappoined at his blatant misrepresentation of the medical and nutritional literature as it relates to iron, zinc and vitamin D espcially.

      Having said that, I believe strongly i produce and in terms of volume, my diet is produce domintated. The PB, as laid out in the book, is a produce dominated diet. The produce link in my sig clarifies.

      K



      iherb referral code CIL457- $5 off first order

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      • #4
        This blog post blatantly disregards the fact that correlation doesn't prove causation. This is the golden rule of sound statistical research, and it is sadly ignored far too often. People are more interested in pushing there agenda than searching for truth. Ok, so two indigenous peoples have lower life expectancy than the rest of the modern world? never mind that there are thousands of variables that could account for this trend...OBVIOUSLY it is due to too much meat and not enough veggies. /sarcasm

        I mean, is it a function of diet at all? Could it be that these people don't have access to modern medical science? Or perhaps that their physical lifestyle subjects them to more dangerous death causing injuries? We don't know. We cannot know for sure without doing random, double blind experiments that CONTROL for external variables. If it's raining outside and people go indoors, you can't just say people going indoors causes it to rain...

        Life expectancy is such a misleading statistic in itself. Most modern hunter gatherer peoples have lower life expectancy due to infant mortality, for example. Babies have a much harder time surviving without modern medical science around. Life expectancy alone is insufficient for assessing the health and longevity of a group of people.

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        • #5
          Yeah, the thing is that they take the most extreme examples of tribes and use them to their own benifit.

          If you take at look at Andorra, San Marino, some towns in Japan, they combine the natural eating habits of the past, but with access to good healthcare. But for the most part the eating habits of those countries are what make them healthy in the first place.

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          • #6
            That's pretty weak. Just like the others have said, we can't compare primitive and modern lifestyles because there are way too many variables. My twins were born into a modern world that has state of the art technology that kept them alive because they were born 6 weeks early. They were delivered via C-section which was done immediately because a scan found that one of our girls was not getting enough food because her food source had been ripped off! Now, tell me how they would have survived that? Chances are they and their mother would have died, which would then help to bring all of our life expectancies down.

            Imagine living in the primitive world and having to hunt for food, making a judgement error, falling and receiving a major wound that got infected. Without proper meds and treatment, one's chance of living is greatly decreased.

            There is no need for example after example because the study simply does not cover all the factors, and thus Mr. Fuhrman uses this type of argument to promote his meatless diet.

            I would respond to your friend and say that we are all going to die someday! Vegans don't have eternal life, neither so primal/paleo/low carb folks but we enjoy ourselves while we eat meat, veggies & dairy, nuts & seeds, some fruit, little starch and limited sugar.

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            • #7
              Thoughts?
              survival of the fittest
              “Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future.” -Oscar Wilde
              "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." -George Bernard Shaw
              "The trouble with jogging is that the ice falls out of your glass." -Martin Mull

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              • #8
                Heh so basically a false cause fallacy followed by a false dichotomy (between eating plants and eating a lot of meat. I eat tons of both), baseless assertions and question begging "We now know that greatly increasing the consumption of vegetables, legumes, fruits, and raw nuts and seeds (and greatly decreasing the consumption of animal products) offers profound increased longevity potential"

                ...Continued false dichotomy "due in large part to broad symphony of life-extending phytochemical nutrients that a vegetable-based diet contains". I eat more vegetables than any vegetarian I know. But calorie-wise I eat a lot more animal product than plant, because plants are mostly water and 5 cups of vegetables and some fruit is still not very many calories.

                sigh
                Stabbing conventional wisdom in its face.

                Anyone who wants to talk nutrition should PM me!

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                • #9
                  Also regarding the Maasai, yeah they really love animal foods but these days their crops are failing and they live in poverty. I read an article about how their new industry is bee keeping. Bee keeping! They eat tons of honey and have for a long time. They have low cholesterol and atherosclerosis from eating tons of sugar. Might I ask how this says anything about meat?
                  Stabbing conventional wisdom in its face.

                  Anyone who wants to talk nutrition should PM me!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    "We now know that greatly increasing the consumption of vegetables, legumes, fruits, and raw nuts and seeds (and greatly decreasing the consumption of animal products) offers profound increased longevity potential."

                    Personally, I'll take longevity over "longevity potential." If it's so "profound" it ain't "potential." How vague can they be?

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                    • #11
                      This just in: I wanted to re-post my thoughts on his blog...and my comments were deemed "inappropriate."

                      doesn't agree with your viewpoint =/=> inappropriate.

                      what a joke.

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                      • #12
                        wow really pete? and obviously you didn' t use offensive or judgemental language did you?

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                        • #13
                          The article doesn't say what they're dying *of* - kicks to the head when bleeding their cattle? Hyena attacks? Cancer? Diabetes? Childhood illnesses? Invisble gnome stampedes?

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Helen in Oz View Post
                            I can't be bothered reading anything put forward by vegans. Veganism is almost always a dogma, based on ideas about animal welfare and so they are making the science fit the hypothesis.
                            Reminds me of this: The Vegan True Believers http://www.tomnaughton.com/?p=558
                            A steak a day keeps the doctor away

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Bushrat View Post
                              Reminds me of this: The Vegan True Believers http://www.tomnaughton.com/?p=558
                              REALLY interesting article - thanks for introducing me to this guy, I love astute thought.

                              Comment

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