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Anyone eat moderate macros?

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  • Anyone eat moderate macros?

    Hi,

    I eat moderate carb (~100-130g), moderate fat, higher protein so my ratios come out to 20/40/40 give or take. A lot of people seem to eat either higher carb or higher fat, but why doesn't anyone seem to follow a more moderate approach?
    Also, I have heard how fat+carbs together store fat more easily-is there any truth to this? Is this why people advocate either a higher ratio of carbs or fat over the other?

  • #2
    I cannot say on a daily basis due to wild fluctuations but I can certainly say that overall, I eat ~ 33/33/33.

    Re carbs + fat. As long as you are in storage mode (due to high levels of insulin), fats will mainly be shuttled to adipose cells because high levels of insulin prevents fatty acids to be released from those cells. It is not a black and white picture though but since digestible carbs (and proteins) will anyway involve insulin, the fats you ate along will be mostly stored as well. But when insulin comes back to baseline, fat is the preferred fuel for everyday movements unless you hit the gym and lift heavy stuff or sprint, or are metabolically inflexible (cannot oxidise fat).

    I wouldn't "sweat it" if I were you. Exercise moderately to improve your metabolic flexibility and enjoy good foods and sleep
    Last edited by FrenchFry; 02-05-2014, 01:15 PM.

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    • #3
      Just google zone paleo and crossfit. They pretty much recommend that sort of ratio (zone diet stuff). Of course they also recommend killing it in a glycolytic pathway for 30-45 minutes 6x/week along with that diet. But whatever, yeah, its been done by lots of people starting back in the 90's.

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      • #4
        I've heard conflicting advice regarding carbs + fat.

        On one hand, I've heard they shouldn't be eaten together because they'll go to fat storage (as mentioned above).

        On the other hand, I've heard that they should be eaten together so the fat slows the insulin spike that would be caused by the carbs.

        So... does the fat keep the insulin down, or does the insulin spike still happen with carbs, and the fat goes into storage?

        Jason

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        • #5
          I eat a "moderate" 125g carbohydrate, 110g protein, and the rest fat (my goal macros for a day). This breaks down to about 25% carb, 25% protein, 50% fat.

          I've done LC a couple times, but I guess I'm too active to keep it permanently. I lost a little weight, but bonked athletically. I get blood sugar instability and just generally feel like crap if I go over the 140s though. I'm hoping sticking here for awhile and VERY gradually increasing will help with that.

          I think it's a great tool to knock out cravings and regulate carb sensitivity, but unless you've got a reason (PCOS, epilepsy...), adding healthy sources, cycling, or moderating carbohydrate seem to be good for most people.

          Honestly, primal is anywhere from 50-150g BEFORE accounting for activity levels. Primal/paleo is simply a guide to clean, nourishing foods and various tools to guide the individual to their ideal diet. It's too bad when I see people restricting a macro so intensely and giving up because "it didn't work."

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Jason Paul View Post
            I've heard conflicting advice regarding carbs + fat.

            On one hand, I've heard they shouldn't be eaten together because they'll go to fat storage (as mentioned above).

            On the other hand, I've heard that they should be eaten together so the fat slows the insulin spike that would be caused by the carbs.

            So... does the fat keep the insulin down, >>>or does the insulin spike still happen with carbs, and the fat goes into storage?<<<

            Jason
            First of all, here's this. So, insulin for dummies: Insulin is released from your pancreas in direct proportion to the amount of glucose you ingest. Insulin clears nutrients (fat, sugar and protein) from the blood so they can get where they belong (your cells). This is not its only function, but it's an important one. Yes, it inhibits fatty acid oxidation and lipolysis, but it's a post-meal effect. Insulin has basal levels just like everything else. It rises at the presence of carbohydrates (and protein) and falls when its job is done.

            Humans don't really use protein for energy, and glucose is oxidized preferentially over fat, so by virtue of those facts, a mixed diet can be more fattening than diets extremely low in either fat or carbohydrates because of the mixed fuels competing for oxidation. Ultimately it doesn't matter, because glucose is taken up by the muscles and the liver and stored as glycogen to the tune of about 300 grams per day (significantly more for athletes with more lean mass) before it's converted into any reasonable amount of fat in the liver through de novo lipogenesis.

            You run on a fairly even mix of glucose and fatty acids at any given moment, and odds are, unless you're an athlete, on most days you're not anywhere close to filling your glycogen stores on the paleo diet, so there's no need to worry about getting fat from eating carbohydrates directly. They can still technically make you fat indirectly because of insulin's effect on fuel selection, but that's only in the case of overeating and sedentary living. To be fully honest, even if you are sedentary, consuming 300 grams of carbohydrates per day and eating within your energy requirements, you won't get fat. I'm sedentary at the moment and I maintain my weight eating starch and fruit sugar ad libitum. Oh, and fructose doesn't stimulate insulin secretion at all. Fear not the lowly monosaccharides.

            Hope that answers your question.

            I should have read the first reply. That would have spared me writing a long response when it was already covered. Damnit.
            Last edited by Timthetaco; 02-05-2014, 06:27 PM.

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            • #7
              I don't demonize any macro but I tend to eat more carbs than protein/fat. At the end of the day I still eat high enough amounts of all three macros though.
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              • #8
                I never bothered much with the food mixing or combining principles. The absorption, insulin spikes and whatever happen as they happen. My scheduling and decision making for eating times and practices happens rather organically. Similar thing with macros. I monitor the amount of carbs I need to workout efficiently, sleep well and not get fatter, then tinker and tweak that according to appetite. Fat I eat until it doesn't taste palatable anymore. Protein I always crave.

                Following that kind of pattern I generally end up 50% Fat, 30% Protein, 20% Carbs. That isn't to say everyone functions best under that paradigm. Plenty of folks here do great with high carbs. It's about finding what's right for you. I definitely think using mood, energy and sleep patterns as a gauge, just as much as fat deposition, is key to striking that balance.

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                • #9
                  I consider my diet pretty moderate. Most days it comes out to 40% protein, 35% fat, 25% carbs. I don't worry too much about the mixing of carbs and fat, so long as my calories are in-check, but YMMV.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Reventon View Post
                    I never bothered much with the food mixing or combining principles. The absorption, insulin spikes and whatever happen as they happen. My scheduling and decision making for eating times and practices happens rather organically. Similar thing with macros. I monitor the amount of carbs I need to workout efficiently, sleep well and not get fatter, then tinker and tweak that according to appetite. Fat I eat until it doesn't taste palatable anymore. Protein I always crave.

                    Following that kind of pattern I generally end up 50% Fat, 30% Protein, 20% Carbs. That isn't to say everyone functions best under that paradigm. Plenty of folks here do great with high carbs. It's about finding what's right for you. I definitely think using mood, energy and sleep patterns as a gauge, just as much as fat deposition, is key to striking that balance.
                    Thats how I do it as well. And I would guess thats about where my macros end up.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Timthetaco View Post
                      First of all, here's this.
                      Humans don't really use protein for energy, and glucose is oxidized preferentially over fat, so by virtue of those facts, a mixed diet can be more fattening than diets extremely low in either fat or carbohydrates because of the mixed fuels competing for oxidation. .
                      .
                      So in theory, is it actually preferable to eat a higher carb or higher fat diet? I'm trying to adjust my macros right now, and its funny you mention overeating and being sedentary because I am actually trying to gain weight but am not very active, so was wondering if i should be preferring carbs, fats, or moderate amounts of both to minimize fat gain.
                      [ I know people will automatically recommend strength training and "Why aren't you active", but I've been having low energy lately and also have a minor lower back injury I don't want to exacerbate. ]

                      Also, why is it suggested to not eat as many carbs if you are not active, if you have to eat >300g for it to be stored as fat?

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                      • #12
                        ^I reckon you'll drive yourself nuts doing it any other way. Every few months, I'll jump on Fitday to get a rough gauge of what I'm doing and how, and it reconfirms what I generally guess (apart from telling me I'm at a 1186 kCal daily caloric defecit, which is a load of horse shit), but I couldn't do it full time. It's just too time consuming and annoying. I couldn't sit down and micromanage my food every day. I honestly don't know how so many people do that shit to themselves and tolerate it for months or years upon end.

                        Basically, more than 2 days straight on Fitday and my stomach leaps out of my esophagus, screaming "PUNY MAN!!! NO ONE CAN CHAIN THE HULK!!!"

                        Or something along those lines.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Alfi56 View Post
                          Also, why is it suggested to not eat as many carbs if you are not active, if you have to eat >300g for it to be stored as fat?
                          Because glucose is high octane fuel. Fat is diesel. Sitting, breathing, walking, most work, typing, sleeping....all generally fueled with oxygen/aerobic respiration (so fat). So in theory eating to fulfill your bodily needs would not require vast amounts of carbs if you are not lifting, sprinting, playing sport, or otherwise working in the glycolytic pathway on a regular basis.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Alfi56 View Post
                            So in theory, is it actually preferable to eat a higher carb or higher fat diet? I'm trying to adjust my macros right now, and its funny you mention overeating and being sedentary because I am actually trying to gain weight but am not very active, so was wondering if i should be preferring carbs, fats, or moderate amounts of both to minimize fat gain.
                            [ I know people will automatically recommend strength training and "Why aren't you active", but I've been having low energy lately and also have a minor lower back injury I don't want to exacerbate. ]

                            Also, why is it suggested to not eat as many carbs if you are not active, if you have to eat >300g for it to be stored as fat?
                            Ok. Let's eliminate some confusion first off. When you say gain weight, the only way to gain muscle is through adaptation. Whether you train with a barbell, your own bodyweight, a sandbag, a rock or a can of soup, you need to train your body to feel it needs more strength to survive, otherwise it won't bother building it. Muscle is metabolically expensive, so unless your body is faced with the need to adapt, it will keep the level of muscle it has right now, because the hormonal survival signals it's receiving are telling it that it doesn't need any more. Same goes for building bone density and the surrounding ligaments and support structure. You can inject yourself with enough anabolic steroids to kill a rhino and eat ten times your bodyweight in protein. Without lifting stuff, you'll just get fat. With the streoids, you'll particularly get upper back fat and backne.

                            Bodyfat, on the other hand, you can build any time you eat enough. It's metabolically very cheap for the body to do this and in a survival situation, extremely useful. Whether you eat enough calories through carbs or fat is largely irrelevant. The only difference is your body can use ingested fat for other purposes. Carbs, it's either store or burn. You're going to have a post prandial insulin spike either way if you're eating to a caloric surplus, so it's quite literally potato/poh tah toe.

                            The idea you need to eat 300 grams or more of carbs per day to start storing fat is not true. Marks carb curve is just a very general guide for the sedentary folk largely eating processed food and refined grains. To store fat, you just need to eat enough. How you get that energy through macro breakdown is neither here nor there.

                            If you want muscle mass and better bone density, you need to motivate yourself to get your arse into gear. There's no nice sugar coated way to put it. You don't need to load a barbell with double your bodyweight. You can start small. But you need to perform some kind of resistance workout to drive adaptation.

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                            • #15
                              Oh haha I don't actually calculate my macros every day- I just logged it for maybe a couple days and those are what it averaged out to.
                              So would it be better for me to increase my fats if I'm trying to gain weight but not very active, for minimal fat gain? I know on other threads there's also discussion on how fats are directly stored as fat, whereas carbs are more thermogenic. I know either way excess calories=weight gain, but what is the best to minimize fat gain? I also find my energy levels are low and I eat too much protein, so was wondering if I should use carbs, fats, or moderate amounts of both to replace some of my protein intake.

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