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  • #76
    "And what is this "stated burden of proof?" I would like to see the quote to which you refer."

    LOL
    What have you done today to make you feel Proud?

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    • #77
      I have made a claim and I have attempted to collect relevant legitimate evidence on the subject. This evidence is consistent with my claim. I consider that to be sufficient. If you want specific numbers, you can look them up.
      My opinions and some justification

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      • #78
        Originally posted by Elliot View Post
        Most of the evidence against nuts comes from the evidence against polyunsaturated fat. I tried to collect most of the relevant human trials in this article:
        https://sites.google.com/site/elliot...olyunsaturated
        So even though someone previously stated that 2oz (875grams) of almonds has 3grams of polyunsaturated fats (in a whole food, not a processed food) no one should eat it cause polyunsaturated fats are bad?

        Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Tapatalk

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        • #79
          Originally posted by Elliot View Post
          I have made a claim and I have attempted to collect relevant legitimate evidence on the subject. This evidence is consistent with my claim. I consider that to be sufficient. If you want specific numbers, you can look them up.
          No - you have insisted that only those positions which can be supported with irrefutable scientific proof are valid.

          I then proved to you that your own burden of proof could not be applied to your own position.

          I then gave you a 'way out' in the way of putting together a preponderance of the evidence 'defense' of your position.

          So far, since then you have done nothing but put up a few more studies without even taking a moment to summarize them.

          I thought better of you........I thought you would be willing to make your own case at least to the degree that you demanded others do so..........................You do seem to be running around the forum demanding proof of others at every turn........

          If you can't take the heat.......get out of the kitchen........
          What have you done today to make you feel Proud?

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          • #80
            So even though someone previously stated that 2oz (875grams) of almonds has 3grams of polyunsaturated fats (in a whole food, not a processed food) no one should eat it cause polyunsaturated fats are bad?
            They can eat it. I doubt it will have a noticeable effect. But I claim they would be slightly, imperceptibly healthier if they did not.
            My opinions and some justification

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            • #81
              I then proved to you that your own burden of proof could not be applied to your own position.
              Please find the quote where you proved this.

              So far, since then you have done nothing but put up a few more studies without even taking a moment to summarize them.
              Actually, I did summarize them. I'm not sure why you're claiming the opposite. Here, I'll even quote myself:
              Yet in two randomized trials, diets rich in linoleic acid increased mortality rates, despite lowering cholesterol levels (1, 2). In two other trials, diets rich in linoleic acid did not significantly affect mortality rates, though one trial was limited by its small size and the other contained significantly more smokers in the control group (3, 4). Apparently linoleic acid is almost as bad as smoking.
              This is from the article I mentioned earlier.

              I thought you would be willing to make your own case at least to the degree that you demanded others do so
              I am. I demanded controlled experiments, rather than observational studies. This is what I have provided. What is it you think I have demanded of others that I have not done myself?

              If you can't take the heat.......get out of the kitchen........
              You must be so cool with lines like that.
              My opinions and some justification

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by Elliot View Post
                I am. I demanded controlled experiments, rather than observational studies.
                Controlled nutritional experiments are far and few between cause they are too expensive.
                It requires people to be monitored 24/7 of their intakes.

                Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Tapatalk

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                • #83
                  Controlled nutritional experiments are far and few between cause they are too expensive.
                  That's an unfortunate reality, but it does not validate observational studies. We have to work with what we have.
                  My opinions and some justification

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Elliot,

                    You can either go all the way back up to the post where I set up for you the detailed summary of your logic, set out for you a possible path of discussion, and even offered you suggestions for places to look for information, or not. Your choice. But you have lost my support in any case. You have failed to convince me of your position.
                    What have you done today to make you feel Proud?

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      So do you disagree that, in controlled trials comparing linoleic acid (of which nuts tend to contain a great amount), groups eating more linoleic acid tend to have equal or higher mortality rates than groups eating more saturated fat?
                      My opinions and some justification

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        I might start a dedicated PUFA debate thread.

                        Elliot: How do you reconcile your belief that eating two ounces of almonds will make you insignificantly unhealthier with your belief that any amount of PUFA is toxic? Only one of those statements can be true, you know.

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                        • #87
                          How do you reconcile your belief that eating two ounces of almonds will make you insignificantly unhealthier with your belief that any amount of PUFA is toxic? Only one of those statements can be true, you know.
                          Did you misread my post? The statements are consistent. Any amount of dietary polyunsaturated fat is toxic. The small amount in almonds is toxic. But because it is so small, the effect is small. How is this a contradiction?

                          EDIT:
                          I think you misinterpreted me. When I say any amount of PUFA is toxic, I mean that it will decrease your health. I do not mean that it causes instant death.
                          Last edited by Elliot; 04-25-2014, 08:28 PM.
                          My opinions and some justification

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Elliot View Post
                            Did you misread my post? The statements are consistent. Any amount of dietary polyunsaturated fat is toxic. The small amount in almonds is toxic. But because it is so small, the effect is small. How is this a contradiction?

                            EDIT:
                            I think you misinterpreted me. When I say any amount of PUFA is toxic, I mean that it will decrease your health. I do not mean that it causes instant death.
                            Your edit is even more confusing. So PUFA can be both toxic yet not impact mortality rate? Ah, you say "instant" death. Can you show that small amounts contribute to any impact on long term mortality. In terms of reduced health...by what markers are you measuring "health". Health is by definition is a moving target. You seem to find evolutionary and observational studies flawed. There is limited to none in the realm of RCT in this arena. I find biochemical hypothesis far more flawed than observational data due to an abundance of ignorance. Safer to observe and mimic healthy populations based on ancestral data...of whom we have significant data on.... than to prescribe radical changes based the partial data and subsequent hypothesis of some physiologist has put together from rat studies.
                            Last edited by Neckhammer; 04-25-2014, 08:45 PM.

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                            • #90
                              The dose makes the poison, and most Americans get most of their energy from carbohydrates, so in a person eating to weight maintenance according to national guidelines, you're talking about a range of 0 to 30 grams of PUFA per day. How toxic could that be? Actually, the studies you're referencing already answer that question: slightly more toxic than saturated fats. That's hardly the sort of evidence required to convince people to reduce their PUFA consumption to the level of deficiency.

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