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Why do doctors tell us to eat stuff that's clearly bad for us?

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  • #31
    The last two years I've had to explain to my Doctors why my bloodwork is so good, why I'm not obese like most men my age and why my blood pressure is so low (108/69). I explain what Primal is but they just never get it.

    I was talking to this one Nurse about it and she was happy to tell me that she's a vegetarian and had lost 15 pounds since starting, a year ago. But of course she's still overweight.

    When people ask me why I eat like I do I just say I'm Diabetic.
    52 year old Male
    Goal: 185lbs
    April 10th: 220lbs


    • #32
      Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
      All true, and as to opinions you know what might be interesting? Making continuing education public knowledge. That is you could see if your doctor has been getting his continuing ed from prescription drug manufacturers or working to expand his knowledge in the fields of nutrition, exercise, or other more functional capacities. Lets face it....10 years of education is a paltry tidbit when it comes to someone who has been working in the field for 30+ years. I don't care what they did in college/postgrad, what have they done lately? What makes them different from the fella down the street. And I do mean this for all health care providers... There is a huge continuum on which one can practice after you get any degree. The degree is only a starting point.
      I could not agree more with that....and I would take it a step further to say that if I could change anything, it would be how doctors are selected and trained.

      Getting into medical school is an almost impossible task. At many of the top programs the turnaway rate is over 97%, and it attracts a certain kind of individual to be able to accept that and attempt it anyway. In undergrad, you cannot get a B on anything, and when you take the MCAT you study for it realizing that 90% of the people that take it do not score high enough to get into a reputable school.

      Once you are there, it is MORE relentless competition that I don't think most outsiders are aware of. I had a few friends in school that used to go to a coffee shop 30 min away in Miami, JUST to ensure no one was spying on them and stealing their methods or materials. Matching into top selections like dermatology, neuro, general surgery, or ophthalmology (mine) is as cutthroat as anything I've ever seen.I would love to make a documentary about what it is really like. No one has a clue.

      AFTER that, you go into a residency program that is again a dog eat dog world, with everyone vying to impress attendings. In my field, I had to learn basic surgeries only a few months after graduating, and that environment was incredibly nasty. I was called every name in the book by attendings, worked 100+ hours a week, slept in closets, etc.

      And then.....when you are finally done and start realize one really big truth: Being a good doctor has much less to do with your mind than your heart, and all this time no one much cared about that part.

      I have been asked what the attributes are of a good doctor, and I can really narrow it down to one.....a good doctor feels, above anything else, a duty to their patients to give the best advice and care, regardless of personal opinion or affectation.

      In regards to how I treat or what I say, or being an "expert", I find all of that to be a made-up dichotomy; all because I don't really make my recommendations off of anything but results produced by it, mixed with trial and error of other approaches. I have attempted being much less abrasive to patients, doesn't produce like my current approach. I have tried taking out the fasting, making it shorter or longer, adjusting sugar or carb intake, again, it is all about what it does. Theory and opinion are not relevant. It is math. If I attempt other regimens that are more effective, I will transition to them instantly. This is what it is all about, having no ideology.

      Overall, I believe that medicine attracts too many of the wrong kind of person, that many med schools are a cabal of grouchy old men that enjoy pigeon-holing and ranking every student to the Nth degree, and in the end you produce a very opinionated, very ideological robot. That can be an incredibly dangerous thing, as Quikky's story talked about.

      Anyway, Merry Christmas to everyone. I'm off here for the holidays for a bit....
      "The soul that does not attempt flight; does not notice its chains."


      • #33
        I'm not sure what exactly you would learn by exposing where doctors are getting the continuing education from. I work at a university. All the research that I'm aware of is strongly influenced by industry groups. It's subtle, too. It's not simply some industry tries to bias the outcome of research. No, it's more like some industry wants some way to make money and they frame the questions to ask and the research to be done. Can we make this thing faster, or cheaper or easier to deliver? Can we act on this molecule in the body or that receptor? I suppose doctors aren't doing original research like this, but this stuff is creating the knowledge out there and thus influencing and shaping what it is that we "know".
        Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.


        • #34
          I think you need to take off your tinfoil hat God and provide citations for your grand claims.
 - Gaming, Food Reviews and Life in Singapore


          • #35
            Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
            Preventive medicine is not good for the medical business and telling the truth will sooner or later only fall back on the doc himself! If I were a doctor, meeting ignorant overfat and pre-diabetic people face to face, Id just tell the patients what they like to hear and treat their symptoms down the road! Dr Lazarus sound like a better doctor that I could ever have been though...
            We had a practitioner who was fired for telling an obese patient with a laundry list of problems the truth. People want sugar coating and to be made well with pills, or who knows what, but the truth is not what they want to hear.


            • #36
              After reading Laz's post I'm kind of amazed that there are any doctors that are at all compassionate.
              Life is death. We all take turns. It's sacred to eat during our turn and be eaten when our turn is over. RichMahogany.


              • #37
                Originally posted by Urban Forager View Post
                After reading Laz's post I'm kind of amazed that there are any doctors that are at all compassionate.
                Just imagine if you where in an already ostracized health profession with less societal authority than a medical doctor enjoys...Yet you still told patients the cold hard truths of reality with the same repercussions of not toeing the CW line. The horrors!!!!


                • #38
                  I've started following the advice of people that look like I want to look like. It works.

                  Haha, I had some snotty nurse tell me "I was doing it wrong, and it was dangerous". She has put on a ton of weight since this summer. OK. I've actually noticed a theme.... fat people or skinny fat people let me know avoiding grains and limiting carbs is bad. Fit, lean people with muscle tell me to eat protein and fat.

                  I'm impressed by doctors that fix things, but in terms of maintenance most don't seem to know how to make a body fit.

                  Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!


                  • #39
                    Really magnolia?

                    Most of the lean people I know eat low fat and high carbs, or low fat/low carb/high protein.

                    I guess I don't know many paleo people... :/ just CW healthy peeps.

                    As for the OP- doctors are not equipped with more knowledge than the layperson in nutrition. They spend most of their medical school years learning diseases, memorizing body parts, helping out in hospitals, and dissecting dead people in cadavers labs.
                    To pin them on lack of nutritional knowledge is at best unfair.

                    (Also I never trust older doctors because they could know very little modern biochemistry/etc. Biotech/biochem is a very fast-paced field.)
                    HCLF: lean red meat, eggs, low-fat dairy, bone broth/gelatin, fruits, seafood, liver, small amount of starch (oatmeal, white rice, potatoes, carrots), small amount of saturated fat (butter/ghee/coconut/dark chocolate/cheese).

                    My Journal: gelatin experiments, vanity pictures, law school rants, recipe links

                    Food blog: GELATIN and BONE BROTH recipes

                    " The best things in life are free and the 2nd best are expensive!" - Coco Chanel


                    • #40
                      I follow my own advice and tell my nurse practitioner ( I have had way better experiences seeing nurse practitioners) what I'm doing to be in such good shape. At my last visit, my nurse practitioner told me that I'm doing great and that she wishes all of her patients cared that much about their health. We chatted (for about 5 minutes, they are not allowed much time with patients) about my Paleo/primal diet and the exercises I do. What amazed me, thought it shouldn't, is that she said most women my age (41) are already on a bunch of meds to control blood pressure, diabetes etc. It was surprising to her that I didn't need to be on meds. My total cholesterol is low (148), always has been so I think it may be genetic. Same with blood pressure (usually 110/60).

                      I didn't get any lectures about eating whole grains or anything, just an 'atta girl' for doing so well. Not all health care practitioners are bad. Mine is really, really good. She always listens to me and gives me advice based on me, and not some chart. I don't like demonizing doctors because there are some really good ones out there. I work for the health insurance industry and feel bad for doctors. They aren't given any leeway to talk to their patients honestly and are scheduled appointments so closely together that it prevents real conversations from happening. I wonder if Laz can talk to his patients more because he isn't in a primary care office where he has no room to move.

                      The best health conversations I've had were at my chiro's office, actually. He is very educated on herbal medicines, which I can't get from my very smart nurse practitioner.
                      Last edited by Zanna; 12-24-2013, 08:37 PM.


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by turquoisepassion View Post
                        Really magnolia?

                        Most of the lean people I know eat low fat and high carbs, or low fat/low carb/high protein.

                        I guess I don't know many paleo people... :/ just CW healthy peeps.
                        Hahah...funny story. I go to the YMCA. There was only one dude there that I considered by watching had something to say to me about how to eat/lift. Him and me already lift about the little rest and with heavy weights.....Just so happened we hit the sauna and got talking. He brought up Movnat. I asked him if he had heard of Primal. Oh yeah. He was 100% vegetables and meat with a bit of fruit....NO starch. Just one guy I know. But he was the only one round that was leaner and lifting the same or higher than me at our general weight 160-170lbs.


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Urban Forager View Post
                          After reading Laz's post I'm kind of amazed that there are any doctors that are at all compassionate.
                          Doctors are professions which score highly on 'PCL-R', (I think those are the initials) which is the most widely used and accurate test for Psychopathy/Sociopathy. It's a lot more than being Hannibal Lecter, and makes for bloody good further reading!


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by God View Post
                            Do you guys think it's just plain incompetence? Or maybe something more sinister? Time to put on your tinfoil hats!

                            Think about it. Who benefits from us eating high-carb low-fat grain-based diets? Well, let's see. Eating a grain-based diet causes disease and disease is generally treated (remember, only treated, never cured) by pills. Pharmaceutical companies make pills. So that's one multi-billion dollar industry that has motivation to make you suffer.

                            Low fat grain based diets aren't the reasons everyone's ill. You can blame that one the millions served everyday at Mcdonalds, wendys, KFC, Burger king, cafes and restraunts and countless junk foods sold in stores. There's countless populations that consumed grain based high carb diets with extremely low levels of disease even into old age.

                            I saw this posted the other day which is the Australian government guide to healthy eating.

                            Pretty responsible across the board advice.


                            • #44
                              Not bad, but I would scale down the grains section and replace it with lean meats and fruit.

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                              • #45
                                Most people I know who are lean have never been overweight.