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  • #31
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    Last edited by Liquid Gusto; 01-10-2014, 08:15 PM.

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    • #32
      My kids never questioned their diet till school. (Even though dad ate junk cause he could). Not primal but healthier then most on SAD (restricted wheat products, lots of fresh fruit & veg & meat & fresh dairy)
      My eldest has behavioural issues & can be obssive. I did lose it one day & say that their parents must not love them if thats what they are feeding them 😱
      Even now at times she will ask why she can't eat X food, it can be hard explaining that it sets off her behaviours (artificial flavours, colours, sugars)

      Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Marks Daily Apple Forum mobile app

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Liquid Gusto View Post
        My fiancÚ would like nothing more than our children to eat 100% like me and not like him. He won't be saying his way is acceptable, he loathes the way he eats.
        Ok, so right there, you have an option to which he agrees. When your children start eating food (which with baby-led weaning is around 6-9 months), then they eat your food. No big deal.

        I would like the medical issue discussed with her because she asks why Daddy gets to eat certain things multiple times in a day when she doesn't. I don't like the current default of, "when you're an adult you can too" because it isn't the truth or how I want her to think about food.
        I agree with you here. I figured she was asking these questions now -- because redirecting isn't good enough for where she is developmentally -- and that she needs real answers. Hence, you'll have to talk to your fiancÚ about this situation. He wants to wait until she is 8/9 -- why? KWIM? In my mind, it should be open and on the table now because it best answers her question, and as you say, it sets up a better relationship to food.

        Her Mom has expressed concern to me about my stepdaughter being around my fiance's eating style and I assured her I get in fruit as much as possible.
        Between the two of them, they need to come up with a way to explain these differences, too. And, your fiancÚ needs to step up and assert that he doesn't allow his daughter to eat like him, either, so that her mother is also reassured.

        i mean, in her mind. . .and this is nothing against you. . . what if you go away and then it's still visitation weekends. Problem solved in her mind? Or is she still worried about his influence? So, by having him assure her of his process to feed her healthy foods, whether by your definition or the mother's definition, she'll be more relaxed about it overall, creating a better co-parenting experience for the girl.

        I'm not saying I can change that (unless I were to leave), I'm saying I need to figure how I will deal with the worst case scenario, accept it, and stop worrying about it. That's how I cope with worries about the future. You're right that I really can't know what it is exactly I am accepting until we get there. I didn't really realize that when I started this thread so thanks for helping me realize this. From everyone's responses, I gather I can get a general trend of what to expect, but that's about it.
        I do the same thing. I like to learn as much as I can, research, figure out what might work, and come up with a workable plan for the process. It's actually a good way to go -- you're prepared for multiple scenarios that can crop up. And, it's a decent way to abate anxiety.

        On my end, I do not see this as that big of a deal. When the kids start asking, you just start answering honestly.

        Children can be taught right and wrong, good and bad, etc. well before the age of 3 or 4 in most circumstances. Otherwise, they wouldn't follow any rules prior to that age. They don't really get the "why" of right and wrong which is what I think you were getting at, but they do get that something has been deemed by authority as right or wrong.
        Yes, this. You see, in the early days -- before age 2/3/4 -- you don't have to explain any of this. You just have to give the most basic answers and they accept those answers. When they start asking questions about those answers (when "yes" or "no" or redirecting aren't good enough), *then* you start to answer those questions in more depth.

        So, my son was 'taught' about healthy eating before he was eating. My husband and I eat healthy foods. He was breastfed on cue (following his hunger and comfort needs). When food was introduced via baby-lead weaning, he took food directly from my plate or my husband's plate -- all healthy foods because of our values. And if he couldn't have something, I would just take it from him say "not for baby!" in a singsongy voice. It was very easy to simply give him the foods we wanted him to have and avoid everything else.

        He started asking questions about people's dietary habits somewhere around age 3 (i don't remember exactly). That's when we brought up concepts of healthy/not healthy. And things like "treats" which are, in general, "not healthy" but "acceptable on occasion." And, we do our best to get the healthiest versions for our family -- which we talk about.

        This is -- at age five -- being contrasted with many family members who basically only drink soda, who eat a lot of junk foods (doritos, doughnuts. . . etc), and eat out a lot (usually fast food). When he goes over there, he's allowed some things, but not others. And, we are looking to revise our policy on that because we realized how frequently that he is over there and then what the early childhood education facility will be providing (ritz crackers, commercial yogurt, etc) as opposed to the waldorf school which is gluten free, lots of fruit, etc). So, we're going to have to figure out how to explain that, without it leading to shaming the other people's choices.

        They are formed with tons (very scientific number, I know ) of brain pathways and the ones they do not use are broken down. The ones that are kept, are strengthened and changed. They don't remember the experiences as an adult, or even in a few months or years, but that doesn't mean it didn't impact their brain pathways and behaviors.
        This is why I like baby wearing, breastfeeding on cue, cosleeping/bedsharing, elimination communication (aka diaper free baby aka natural infant hygiene), and baby-led weaning.

        I highly recommend that you look into them.

        Baby-wearing is like riding a horse -- there's a lot of neuromuscular development. Not to mention temperature regulation, breathing regulation, etc. And similar to cosleeping on those later two. It teaches the body how to move and respond, how to sleep well, regulate temperature, etc. It's amazing stuff. ANd yes, there is scientific research behind it (for anyone reading this who might thing it's just hokum).

        Elimination communication is a lot of fun. I know people think I'm nuts, and it doesn't make my kid or my parenting 'better' than anyone else's. It's not a comparison game to me. Basically, we just really enjoyed it. I tell people it's one of the best decisions that we made for practices that have no impact, really, on long term health of the little one. You know, like the paint color of your walls doesn't matter that much? Same with this. Diapers are no worries, whatever. But this was fun.

        And what it did was set up an early communication pattern between us, plus also a fun experience of going tot he toilet, and ultimately, DS was taking himself to the toilet around age 12-14 months, but needed help with his clothes, and by the time he was two, he was fully independent on the potty (fully potty trained). We had none of the problems that my many mommy friends describe in regards to potty learning, and I think it's due, in part, to EC.

        For diet, baby-led weaning is awesome. You do not use purees and 'baby foods.' You just go straight to regular foods once the little one is showing interest in foods. For DS, that was at 8 months. He started grabbing and gnawing on apples. He loved bell peppers, asparagus, broccoli, cauliflower, etc. Roasted root veggies were a favorite. At that time, we ate properly prepared beans (WAPF style), and so he ate a lot of varieties of beans. He ate a wide variety of spice profiles (indian, thai, mexican, cajun, french, english, japanese, chinese, various mediterranean and middle eastern, some african, etc). All of this was before the age of 2, mind you.

        And, he also learned table manners and how to use cutlery between ages 9 months and 16 months. At two, we used "behave like a gentleman" and described those processes. He's impeccable in restaurants.

        I think it has a lot to do with BLW, to be honest with you, and I think it was a great decision for our family.

        We also never had a high chair. He sat in our laps as a baby when we ate, so when he was ready to eat, he just ate right off of our plates. When he was 12-14 months, we'd use a booster seat at home or at restaurants -- so he was sitting at the table as an adult would, with his own plate of food, cutlery, napkin, etc. This is when we started in on "how" to eat (table manners), and by age 2, we explained why manners were important.

        when he started school, things changed because other children still ate with fingers and or fisted their food into their mouths (really disgusting and something my son didn't do after the age of 12 months), so we had to talk about manners and how to properly eat food again at that point. he would point out that's how other children ate, and I would say that their parents hadn't taught them how to hold a fork properly yet (it's surprising, but I know 6-8 yr olds who don't have good table manners, and I find that shocking), and that they usually think that children aren't capable of these things until later (which is culturally true). So, DS returned to his proper table manners.

        Earlier this year, he even 'schooled' a friend of ours about it. That guy chews with his mouth open and has horrific table manners. DS was sitting next to him and said "excuse me, and I'm sure you know this already, but it's more pleasant for everyone when you chew with your mouth closed and use your chop sticks and napkin properly."

        He's very direct, my kid.

        So, yes, you can do a lot of things earlier than a lot of people think if you have the proper tools in place (which require education before hand, joining support groups of people who do it already, and also a 'don't care what people think' attitude about your choices because people will think you are nuts and criticize you -- that's just part of being a parent).

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        • #34
          I have two kids, ages 3 and 6. My husband won't eat my cooking and only eats at places like Jack in the Box and Wendy's.
          I divide food for my kids into two categories - crappy and not crappy.
          They know their dad eats crappy food. I explain that I can't control other people and that their dad makes his own decisions. But I am responsible for them. So they get the food I choose for them (though they do get lots of crappy food from grandparents and outings - but they have never eaten fast food...and they know it is crappy). Luckily my husband does not bring home his food and eats it out. That makes it a bit awkward as he never eats at home! But I rather that then mcdonalds brought into the house...
          Home birthing legal mama. Unschooler. Jewish Intactivist (step away from the foreskin!). Full-term breastfeeder. Kettlebell padawan.

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          • #35
            I came from a large family that always had a freezer full of meat and a sizable veggie garden. My parents doused our veggies in butter and told us to eat the fat on our meat because it was good for us. The vast majority of what we ate was home cooked from scratch. We also had our share of packaged junk, from cereal to pop to fast food on occasion, but we knew they were treats. I grew up eating fairly healthy, and never had a problem sticking to it.
            Hubby came from a small family that disliked cooking and meal prep (mother-in-law thinks our pepper grinder is too much work) so he grew up eating hotdogs, canned beans, and alphagetti. They relied heavily on prepackaged processed fare to keep them all fed. When I met him, he still considered massive bowls of cereal as an appropriate meal any time of day and would sometimes drink several cans of pop in less than an hour. He admired me for my healthy habits and the ease at which I stuck to them.
            My siblings and I had very few health concerns over the years, while hubby had a host of minor ailments that he had learned to live with, including IBS, joint and back pain, among others.
            In the beginning, we never paid much heed to our eating habits. He ate a little better and I ended up eating a little worse, but I never worried about the differences there.
            Then parenthood found us. We have two kids, aged 2.5 years and 3 months. We went primal when our son was about 1.5 years after I had a long battle with postpartum anxiety and depression, and super clean eating became the cure.
            I have become passionate about nutrition and healthy lifestyle after my experience. I want my kids to grow up with healthy eating habits ingrained into them so they hopefully do not have to suffer through mood disorders or require the same type of diet overhaul.
            I have adjusted quite easily as it really wasn't too far off from the way I was raised, but hubby still struggles despite finding much relief from his lifelong health issues. We've had a whole lot of kitchen cupboard resentment and pantry battles. I can't really blame him, all of his childhood comfort foods are now off the table.
            He feels the same way I do in wanting his kids to have healthy habits from the start, so we have came to the compromise of not letting junk foods or beverages into the house. The dose makes the poison, so our tactic is to keep them as well fed as possible at home so that we don't have to worry about it when we're out and about or visiting others.
            I try to cook with many different flavours and bake a wide variety of healthier treats to keep it interesting, but his less than enthusiastic responses to the vast majority of my cooking often makes me feel like I'm running a food dictatorship. He understands the reasons we're eating this way, and oftentimes speaks with pride about it to others, but I hear a hell of a lot more grumbling around the house.
            I've had a few big wins so I keep them on regular rotation, and I'd like to think it's getting better slowly. But it's definitely a challenge some days, and I often wonder how much more enjoyable cooking and eating would be with someone who is as health conscious and as big of a real foodie as I am, instead of just primal by default.
            Our son had his share of breads and crackers before we went primal, so they are what he covets above all else. Given the choice between dessert and fresh bread, I can guarantee he would bypass the most sugar-laden and chocolatey sweet treat out there! Our daughter will never know this wasn't always the norm, so I am very curious as to how her preferences will play out once she starts eating.
            Our boy is now reaching the age where we can start talking about how healthful various foods are (love that food chart idea!!) so I'm looking forward to being able to explain our food choices to him. Hoping this will mean we can go to a restaurant with our extended family and have him eat from more than just the bread basket!
            It can get difficult when any of our extended family comes over and brings pop, chips, cookies, etc. Both sets of grandparents respect what we're trying to instill in him, but we know they secretly feel he's being deprived, and instead of battling I just let them enjoy treating him. I try not to let perfect become the enemy of good.
            But after they leave, I can see the leftovers beckoning both hubby and our son, which often leads to tears when I try to enforce moderation (and hubby 'sneak-eating' in the kitchen.)
            So I have no idea how it would be to change the dynamic and try to teach them to coexist with these foods but not eat them constantly the way their daddy does, as my other half would if we let them in the house. To be brutally honest, I don't think I would be up to the challenge, as awful as that sounds. You are an incredible person to consider it, I applaud you!

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            • #36
              Update on this: When he goes over there, he's allowed some things, but not others. And, we are looking to revise our policy on that because we realized how frequently that he is over there and then what the early childhood education facility will be providing (ritz crackers, commercial yogurt, etc) as opposed to the waldorf school which is gluten free, lots of fruit, etc). So, we're going to have to figure out how to explain that, without it leading to shaming the other people's choices.

              We talked about this on our drive to the co-op (to go and get our juicing greens and such), and DS spoke up and said "well, if they aren't good, we should probably just pack some snacks for me, and enough so that I can share with my cousin, too."

              So, problem solved.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by RaisingCavekids View Post
                Our son had his share of breads and crackers before we went primal, so they are what he covets above all else. Given the choice between dessert and fresh bread, I can guarantee he would bypass the most sugar-laden and chocolatey sweet treat out there!
                This is such a funny side-effect of our being paleo. My one friend said to me "You can always tell the Paleo child -- they consider bread a 'treat.'" So freaking true.

                Our boy is now reaching the age where we can start talking about how healthful various foods are (love that food chart idea!!) so I'm looking forward to being able to explain our food choices to him. Hoping this will mean we can go to a restaurant with our extended family and have him eat from more than just the bread basket!
                It very likely will. What we do is say he can have X amount of bread, and that's it. It is a treat, so that's ok on rare occasion (when it's just us going out to eat -- well, that's super rare, we hate dining out because unless it's an *expensive* restaurant, the food quality isn't great -- we hold on the bread basket).

                But yes, it'll shift. And then he'll start educating everyone else about it. LOL

                It can get difficult when any of our extended family comes over and brings pop, chips, cookies, etc. Both sets of grandparents respect what we're trying to instill in him, but we know they secretly feel he's being deprived, and instead of battling I just let them enjoy treating him. I try not to let perfect become the enemy of good.

                But after they leave, I can see the leftovers beckoning both hubby and our son, which often leads to tears when I try to enforce moderation (and hubby 'sneak-eating' in the kitchen.)
                While our family feels the same about some of our more strict rules (in their opinion), but we are very firm about it. They do provide some treats, but they ask first. Anything that I don't want DS to have, I'll find a way to get rid of it.

                DS will self select a lot of his foods now based on the education around what is healthy. So, even when he's with family and they may be getting fast food, junk foods, etc, he just has his snacks with him and is generally happy with them. A small amount now and again isn't a bad thing (and he needn't apologize for it even though he often does).

                We try to make sure, too, that we have acceptable "treats" on a regular basis. That means going out to the gluten free bakery to have a treat every once in a while, or going out for high-end organic ice cream (there's a cool gelato shop that we sometimes go to, but DH and I realized that the sugar/dairy combo was giving us headaches, so we don't eat it any more, and for DS that is getting him to pause a bit, to feel how he feels after eating it. . . so it's connecting that good food = feels good in his experience), or we'll go out to the gluten free bakery and get a loaf of bread to have with something.

                This way, there's an understanding that these are treats, that of all of the breads out there, we are choosing organic, GMO free, gluten free, trans-fat free, etc breads.

                DS is five now, and he does get it. But I never had to shift him. We ate healthy before, we just eat less bread now, and we made the switch when he was 2. So. . . yeah.

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                • #38
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                  Last edited by Liquid Gusto; 01-10-2014, 08:15 PM.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Muppet View Post
                    I have two kids, ages 3 and 6. My husband won't eat my cooking and only eats at places like Jack in the Box and Wendy's.
                    I divide food for my kids into two categories - crappy and not crappy.
                    They know their dad eats crappy food. I explain that I can't control other people and that their dad makes his own decisions. But I am responsible for them. So they get the food I choose for them (though they do get lots of crappy food from grandparents and outings - but they have never eaten fast food...and they know it is crappy). Luckily my husband does not bring home his food and eats it out. That makes it a bit awkward as he never eats at home! But I rather that then mcdonalds brought into the house...
                    Yay, you gave me more hope. Thank you for sharing this. Sorry for your situation, but know I can relate!

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                    • #40
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                      Last edited by Liquid Gusto; 01-10-2014, 08:16 PM.

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                      • #41
                        For sure. Kids are very much observant of adults' habits.

                        I am on a skiing trip with my family and with another family. The other fam eats a shit ton of junk food. Just now because I am the oldest "kid" (if being 25 is being a kid lol... The others are all 13 and under) everyone else looks to me. One of the girls offered everyone hot Cheetos just 5 mins ago and my sister refused. Then brother and I shared some mangoes and then when I went to get a banana, the other girl who originally wanted hot Cheetos went to get a banana as well!

                        The siblings still eat plenty of junk but I do what I can.
                        ------
                        HCLF: lean red meat, eggs, low-fat dairy, bone broth/gelatin, fruits, seafood, liver, small amount of starch (oatmeal, white rice, potatoes, carrots), small amount of saturated fat (butter/ghee/coconut/dark chocolate/cheese).

                        My Journal: gelatin experiments, vanity pictures, law school rants, recipe links


                        Food blog: GELATIN and BONE BROTH recipes

                        " The best things in life are free and the 2nd best are expensive!" - Coco Chanel

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                        • #42
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                          Last edited by Liquid Gusto; 01-10-2014, 08:17 PM.

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                          • #43
                            I will always credit my parents for one of the main characteristics of my eating that all my friends know:

                            I will eat anything.

                            If I know that some people, somewhere, consider what I am about to eat as good food, I will at least try it. This has included dorian, fish eyeballs, and all variations of Eastern "sauces".

                            Most of the time though it is organs, mostly heart, liver, lungs, kidneys, of just about anything. I plan on duck liver for Xmas (with the duck of course!), and tonight was Buffalo heart from a native American recipe book I got for my birthday....when others come to my house I always get a kick out of hearing "you don't have any food here"....To which I get to say something like "What? There is 300 pounds of meat and organs in the basement, 6 pounds of butter, and enough veg to fill a 20x20 root cellar. What do you need?"

                            This is all direct from my parents.....a lot of "normal kid food" like chicken nuggets or Cheetos never existed for us. We ate what the adults ate, usually something wild or from a neighbor, or we starved. I cannot remember once in my childhood where I was asked "So what do you want for dinner?"

                            We ate what they were making, or nothing. I was a child, so I didn't make those kind of decisions. Works better that way
                            "The soul that does not attempt flight; does not notice its chains."

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by TheyCallMeLazarus View Post
                              To which I get to say something like "What? There is 300 pounds of meat and organs in the basement, 6 pounds of butter, and enough veg to fill a 20x20 root cellar. What do you need?"
                              Agree!

                              We ate what they were making, or nothing. I was a child, so I didn't make those kind of decisions. Works better that way
                              Also agreed. we make one meal. You eat that or you don't. Simple enough.

                              For whatever reason, a lot of people don't like to come to our place to eat. Every time, we generally serve roasted chicken or steak, mashed sweet potatoes (with orange and some pumpkin pie spice), some kind of salad/green veg, and then a paleo dessert (cake, bliss balls, raw ice cream, etc). We serve water and hot tea. What more do people want? It's all delicious food, so what?

                              Instead, everyone insists on taking us out, where they love the food and we are like "meh. I wish i'd had what I was going to make at home." LOL

                              Brunch for my family (christmas brunch) was crustless quiche (pear, gouda, and rocket), big green salad, cut fruit (apples and oranges), green juice (for those who wanted it), and hot roobois chai (with or without milk/coconut cream). They were actually happy with it, even though there was a lot of posturing about "going out to breakfast" after if it "wasn't enough."

                              Both quiches were gone, the salad was gone, the fruit was gone, the green juice was gone (since DH and I drank it -- we only made 20 oz anyway, our usual amount). So apparently it wasn't that bad.

                              Though I'm sure they went out to breakfast after anyway. Or got dunkin donuts.

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                              • #45
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                                Last edited by Liquid Gusto; 01-10-2014, 08:17 PM.

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