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Organic Milk - What I didn't know...

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
    So, the take away here is forms of preparation allow milk to stay fresh longer? From your original post, I thought you were attributing these forms of preparation to various ailments.
    No. There is no takeaway from the article, as you put it. I did some research, learned something and applied that knowledge to a problem. The problem responded. THAT is the takeaway.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Bear View Post
      No. There is no takeaway from the article, as you put it. I did some research, learned something and applied that knowledge to a problem. The problem responded. THAT is the takeaway.
      So, how exactly does this preparation process cause these problems? Do you drink other forms of milk with no issues? I'm having trouble connecting the mechanism here, or why UHT is "scary". The vehicles in which they use to inject synthetic vitamins in milk can be allergenic to some people as well.
      Make America Great Again

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
        So, how exactly does this preparation process cause these problems? Do you drink other forms of milk with no issues? I'm having trouble connecting the mechanism here, or why UHT is "scary". The vehicles in which they use to inject synthetic vitamins in milk can be allergenic to some people as well.
        Do some research...that's what I did.

        End of story.

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        • #19
          I'm not following either. OP, are you saying that only organic milk, because of the UHT process it undergoes is causing you the ailments you mention?

          Are you consuming any raw milk or one pasteurized at lower temps?

          Basically, how did you come to the conclusion that the ultra-pasteurization is to be blamed for your skin and sinus issues?

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Graycat View Post
            I'm not following either. OP, are you saying that only organic milk, because of the UHT process it undergoes is causing you the ailments you mention?

            Are you consuming any raw milk or one pasteurized at lower temps?

            Basically, how did you come to the conclusion that the ultra-pasteurization is to be blamed for your skin and sinus issues?
            Excellent question. And the answer is that I applied a process of elimination to everything new to my life in the past 1 1/2 years. Also saw several medical professionals for help. Once I eliminated organic milk, the problem improved dramatically. So I then began a search for the reasons why. The information I read about UHT pasteurization and the modification of milk proteins seemed the most relevant, because of the apparent auto-immune response that can result.

            Is my research strictly empirical? No. Does it work? Yes...for me. That alone is all I care about... My body chemistry is unique to me...so this solution worked...for me. I'm happy it did...the past year has been quite frustrating.

            Does that address your question adequately?
            Last edited by Bear; 12-15-2013, 12:43 PM.

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            • #21
              Surely the problem is not with organic milk, but with UHT? Here in the UK organic milk is pasteurised in the normal way. Much of it is non-homogenised too. Our organic milk tastes much better and creamier than ordinary pasteurised, I think. UHT tastes foul. I wouldn't touch UHT with a bargepole.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Bear View Post
                Excellent question. And the answer is that I applied a process of elimination to everything new to my life in the past 1 1/2 years. Also saw several medical professionals for help. Once I eliminated organic milk, the problem improved dramatically. So I then began a search for the reasons why. The information I read about UHT pasteurization and the modification of milk proteins seemed the most relevant, because of the apparent auto-immune response that can result.

                Is my research strictly empirical? No. Does it work? Yes...for me. That alone is all I care about... My body chemistry is unique to me...so this solution worked...for me. I'm happy it did...the past year has been quite frustrating.

                Does that address your question adequately?
                Well, what matters is that you have found what works for you. Personally, I, along with countless other people have no problem whatsoever consuming ultra-pasteurized dairy, so I'm not really buying into the "UHT is bad!" hype.

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                • #23
                  Bear, your thread title is very misleading. The title should have been: "Ultra-high pasteurization what I didn't know." Organic's got nothing to do with it. From your own link:

                  "The shelf life of UHT milk is 6 to 9 months and it doesn't even need to be refrigerated."

                  Regular milk is pasteurized normally. Organic and natural milks tend to be flash pasteurized. The only milks I know of that are UHT are the boxed milk on the shelf (some is organic, some not) and some small cartons of half&half or heavy whipping cream. ALL of them say they are ultra-high pasteurized.

                  So, this milk you stopped drinking... was it UHT, was it flash pasteurized, or was it normal pasteurized? Have you tried organic milk that was only flash pasteurized? Your sinus issues may simply be a response to all dairy, or to just that brand of milk, not organic milk in general.
                  5'0" female, 45 years old. Started Primal October 31, 2011, at a skinny fat 111.5 lbs. Low weight: 99.5 lb on a fast. Gained back to 115(!) on SAD chocolate, potato chips, and stress. Currently 111.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by oxide View Post
                    Bear, your thread title is very misleading. The title should have been: "Ultra-high pasteurization what I didn't know." Organic's got nothing to do with it. From your own link:

                    "The shelf life of UHT milk is 6 to 9 months and it doesn't even need to be refrigerated."

                    Regular milk is pasteurized normally. Organic and natural milks tend to be flash pasteurized. The only milks I know of that are UHT are the boxed milk on the shelf (some is organic, some not) and some small cartons of half&half or heavy whipping cream. ALL of them say they are ultra-high pasteurized.

                    So, this milk you stopped drinking... was it UHT, was it flash pasteurized, or was it normal pasteurized? Have you tried organic milk that was only flash pasteurized? Your sinus issues may simply be a response to all dairy, or to just that brand of milk, not organic milk in general.
                    The milk was UHT pasteurized. I don't trust it. I can't change the title of the OP...the system won't let me. But I don't think it was necessarily "misleading" - I titled it "What I didn't know"....not "What YOU don't know..." Gimme a break. There are organic milks, produced by well-known names, that are UHT. Not just boxed milk on a shelf as you stated...

                    Oh...and my sinus issues...not all dairy...just this stuff...organic/UHT. I had hoped I made clear the protocol I used to narrow down the list of suspects. Did you read that? Just curious...
                    Last edited by Bear; 12-15-2013, 02:12 PM.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Graycat View Post
                      Well, what matters is that you have found what works for you. Personally, I, along with countless other people have no problem whatsoever consuming ultra-pasteurized dairy, so I'm not really buying into the "UHT is bad!" hype.
                      I didn't feel the information I found was "hype", as you indicate. There is sufficient data that supports the idea that UHT alters milk protein in a way that makes the body perceive it as a threat requiring an immune response, which is exactly the problem I had.

                      I'm not trying to convert anyone, but it appears the OP came off that way.

                      If you disagree, then by all means...keep using UHT milk. I'm fine with that...it's your choice, just as removing UHT milk from my diet is my choice.

                      Thanks!

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                      • #26
                        Personally, I, along with countless other people have no problem whatsoever consuming ultra-pasteurized dairy, so I'm not really buying into the "UHT is bad!" hype.
                        Just because you don't have an outward "problem" consuming it doesn't mean it's necessarily good for you. I mean, I used to have no problem consuming wheat and now it's the bane of my existence.

                        Ignoring the "hype" of any kind, let's go back to what we know. We know that raw foods or low-temp cooked foods contain beneficial enzymes that heat destroys. Some beneficial nutrients are destroyed by heat as well, like omega 3, vitamin c, some b vitamins, vitamin e, etc (to be fair, heat is not always the enemy and doesn't destroy everything). Raw Milk (from healthy well treated cows) seems to be high in some b vitamins and vitamin e, as well as enzymes that help consumers digest the milk itself.

                        I think it's safe to assume that raw or low-temp milk would retain more of its natural beneficial compounds than it would if it were heated, particularly to such a high level. Enzymes are definitely done-zo at UHT temps.

                        Not saying unpasteurized milk is the way to go or not (I don't have a stake in the claim, I disagree with casein intake as a whole, lol), but UHT does not seem helpful to any degree.

                        Don't mean to pick on you, I just see that thought process (doesnt hurt me, must be good) all over the place and I don't think its often valid.

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                        • #27
                          My primary problem with pasteurization is that it treats the symptom rather than the disease. Rather than making the keeping of dairy cow better along with improving the facility and collection, which in turn produces a product safe to drink, we would just pasteurize the shitty product of inferior conditions. No thanks. The other stuff that sites like this Fresh, Unprocessed (Raw) Whole Milk: Safety, Health and Economic Issues | A Campaign for Real MilkA Campaign for Real Milk purport are all interesting, but secondary to that for me.

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                          • #28
                            Lyte,
                            I'm not disagreeing with the overall premise of your last post. UHT may destroy some beneficial enzymes in milk and make vitamins less bio-available, I'm not arguing that. However, this doesn't necessarily mean the milk would be harmful or unhealthy. You got to draw the line somewhere. For me - antibiotics, synthetic hormones free; pesticide free and non-GMO feed milk is good enough.
                            Sadly, in the USA we always just have to compromise something when it comes to food.
                            Actually, one of the main reasons I'm no longer strictly Primal is its tendency to make people orthorexic. Sometimes we just have to make the best possible choices and carry on. JMO
                            Last edited by Graycat; 12-15-2013, 03:50 PM.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by oxide View Post
                              Bear, your thread title is very misleading. The title should have been: "Ultra-high pasteurization what I didn't know." Organic's got nothing to do with it. From your own link:

                              "The shelf life of UHT milk is 6 to 9 months and it doesn't even need to be refrigerated."

                              Regular milk is pasteurized normally. Organic and natural milks tend to be flash pasteurized. The only milks I know of that are UHT are the boxed milk on the shelf (some is organic, some not) and some small cartons of half&half or heavy whipping cream. ALL of them say they are ultra-high pasteurized.
                              I'm not sure what to make of the OP's link and its claims regarding UHT milk. But I had thought, like you, that UHT was mainly confined to non-refrigerated TetraPak products (which I've only encountered in Europe) and that anything from the fridge case would be pasteurized some other way. But I just checked my Organic Valley milk from Safeway, and although it is certified organic from CA, it also says "Ultra Pasteurized" which I am assuming refers to UHT technique.

                              I'm still not going to worry about it, since it all gets converted to gloriously biodiverse kefir before I drink it!
                              6' 2" | Age: 42 | SW: 341 | CW: 198 | GW: 180?

                              “Life can only be understood backwards, but it must be lived forwards.”
                              ― Søren Kierkegaard

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                              • #30
                                All I can tell you is that my symptoms (which mirror what you'd expect from an immune response) have virtually vanished since dropping UHT organic milk (from a very well-known dairy that I will not name) from my diet. This, after a year of dealing with the problem on a daily basis...with the accompanying low-level stress it engendered. Am I convinced? You bet your a** I am...
                                Last edited by Bear; 12-15-2013, 04:21 PM.

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