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  • Fruititarians (especially Durianrider)

    Something that has been puzzling me lately: have you ever noticed that the raw foodists and fruititarians on youtube are some of the leanest people out there? Whereas a good number of the paleo people are far less lean?

    Some examples...
    Raw/fruititarians
    Paleo Diet Weight Loss Longterm Transformation Photos - YouTube
    Durianriders Girlfriend July 2013: What does she look like? - YouTube
    Paleo:
    Citrushearted - YouTube

    I already know I'll get responses saying "that raw girl is anorexic, she looks unhealthy, etc" but the reality is that she HAS achieved leanness WITH some healthy-looking muscle, and that is the goal of many people.

    What's the issue with raw diets or fruititarian diets? Is there something I'm missing? Where are all the fat fruititarians hiding?

  • #2
    My hypothesis that there is a small percentage of population that have fantastic (or different) blood sugar control and extremely low natural appetite. Those folks are blessed by ability to adhere to a raw diet/vegetarianism. They would be slender no matter what they'd eat, but they have a luxury to chose the tastiest foods on the planet and eat just a bit of it.

    I believe people without these genetic modifiers simply get too unwell to adhere. I know for myself sugar gets unbalanced quite fast without stabilizing impacts of fats and proteins, resulting in insatiable hunger and craving for cooked food with drier texture, like bread. I know that because when i was young we'll go to the seashore on vacations and eat fruit by the bucket (not available most of the year in any variety and quantity in the former USSR), and after a few days, all you start wanting is bland bread, like flatbread.
    My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
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    • #3
      I was working at a grocery store for a while. I was stocking shelves in the dairy department when a woman came up and started asking detailed questions about the "Certified Humane" eggs. She was very concerned about the chickens. I answered her questions as best I could (poorly), but was pretty much speechless when she said, "I'm just trying to do the best I can, you know? I was a vegan for a while, until my fingernails started falling off."

      I don't think she was a raw vegan or anything, but stuff like that makes me not trust any of the supposed "benefits" the vegans get from their way of eating. There are a fair number of ex-vegans around, both here and elsewhere on the internet, who found that they could not sustain a healthy vegan lifestyle for one or more of many reasons. Those that have come out and said so have often been recipients of vicious attacks for "not having done it right" or some other traitorous insults. You don't have to look very far for these stories- start typing "ex vegan" into Google and you'll get suggestions like "ex vegans speak out", "ex-vegan testimonials", "ex-vegan stories".

      There might not be many fat fruitarians, but that doesn't mean there are very many healthy ones either. If you can find any that don't need Vitamin B12 supplementation after doing it for a while, I'll be very surprised.

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      • #4
        She's cute.....but I like my gals with more junk in the trunk

        Whats the question? Can you get lean doing that? Sure! You can also get very lean just straight up fasting. Not much difference IMO.

        Why not pick some paleo athletes rather than paleos shooting for weight loss to post pics of? I mean you post two fruity "athletes" so try comparing apples to apples! Bwahahah. Here:

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3jVQDAQfnY

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fY9ceulkVzs
        Last edited by Neckhammer; 12-04-2013, 02:37 PM.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by jfreaksho View Post
          There are a fair number of ex-vegans around, both here and elsewhere on the internet, who found that they could not sustain a healthy vegan lifestyle for one or more of many reasons.
          I suspect the number 1 reason people quit the vegan WOE is cravings for animal products. Most people will spontaneously change problematic diets before serious malnutrition sets in, provided they are not locked in by ideology and peer pressure.

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          • #6
            Our fuel mixture always contains some lipid so zero intake will run down storage. So many facets of health besides leanness though, I'd caution against such a narrow focus.
            37//6'3"/185

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            • #7
              Pretty simple case, Durianrider and most if not all of his friends are massively into cardio training. Be it cycling, swimming or just classic marathons. Therefore their caloric intake needs to be huge compared to the average deskworker.
              That combined with the fact, that they dont need a ton of muscle for their sport (aka not a lot of protein needed), leads to lean and healthy bodies just with eating a crapton of fruit all the time.

              That is also why everyone who tries that diet and cant afford to walk/swim/cycle around allday everyday just gets fat on this diet. Because you pretty much HAVE to eat more than 3k calories of fruit to get near the needed levels of fat and protein you would get when eating "normally".
              Last edited by Nekron; 12-04-2013, 03:20 PM.

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              • #8
                Being skinny/lean =/= looking aesthetic.

                I'd rather be fat and eat the foods I enjoy, than skinny and just eat fruit all the damn time. Fortunately, since it comes down to activity and caloric intake, I can just be strong, lean, and eat the foods I enjoy. Go figure.
                Dark chocolate and coffee, running through my veins...

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by ForgotMyOldUsername View Post
                  What's the issue with raw diets or fruititarian diets? Is there something I'm missing? Where are all the fat fruititarians hiding?
                  There may not be many obviously fat fruitarians, but there are plenty of skinnyfats--low subcutaneous adiposity, low muscle mass, but they've got plenty of visceral fat.

                  And if you want to study the problems involved with eating a fruitarian diet, go to 30BAD and check out the forums. There's thread after thread of miserable people, suffering from fatigue, bloating, bad skin, reduced athletic performance, brain fog, etc.--which they're told is all due to "detoxing," and that they should just eat more fruit. The diet is never wrong, never a bad choice for an individual; it's their fault if they don't have the fortitude to deal with feeling like hell for weeks or months on end.

                  Now, that said, there may be people out there who can live on enormous quantities of fruit and very little fat or protein, and do just fine for a while. There may be a few freaks who can actually thrive on that kind of diet, and put on plenty of muscle mass. Are D'rider and his GF among those freaks? Or are they eating things they'd rather we don't know about, in order to keep looking the part, and keep the hopeful suckers paying? I honestly don't know. But neither one of them looks all that great, IMO; despite the muscle, tans, and her boob implants they both have a starved, stringy-necked look that I see in a lot of vegans. They don't look like healthy animals do.
                  Last edited by Artemis67; 12-04-2013, 04:12 PM.

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                  • #10
                    You know, if you think it would work for you to get whatever results you want, then go for it.

                    In my experience, the leanest people -- regardless of diet -- are the people who are active and not struggling with metabolic problems. I've been lean as a vegan and as an omnivore (paleo) -- both times it had to do with my activity levels and the amount of sleep I was able to get, and the reduction of stress.

                    Freelee and DurianRider are active people -- and to me they look healthy and I have no direct qualm with them. And that's the honest-to-god truth. I actually *like* them as people and enjoy their videos.

                    I have respect for what they do, the community that they are trying to create, and I honestly have no qualms with someone working on or trying out 80 10 10 (or 811). The main thing is that it requires enough calories -- and you start by meeting your protein needs and go from there. in 80-10-10, you do 10% protein. Easy. If we follow the 1 g/lb lean body mass, then I would need 100g, which is 400 calories from protein. And from there, that means I would need 4000 calories per day. And seeing how they eat, it wouldn't be at all difficult to rack up 400 calories per day.

                    I mean, freelee made this banana-coconut-sugar-spring-water smoothie thingy. I think it was 12 bananas and about 1/2 cup of coconut sugar (she likes the caramel flavor it has. ). So, a banana is about 140 calories. 12 bananas is 1680 calories. That's over 1/4 of the way there in a smoothie just in bananas. The coconut sugar is 15 calories per TSP, and she wasn't holding back. So, that would be 24 tsp at 15 calories each -- another 360 calories. So, there you go. 2040 calories for breakfast is half-way there.

                    And in that, each banana has 1.3g of protein -- so right there in bananas alone, she got 12.3g. I think that her lunch is lighter, but her dinner is diverse and she usually has some seeds on the salad (if I'm remembering correctly).

                    She also asserted that she rides her bike up a good hill every day for an hour, and we all know durian rider loves his bike and loves to do distances on it. I'm down with that. I mean, it's not *my* gig, but I"m down with that. Truthfully, I'm really intrigued by them and their diet. And truly, I want them to continue to succeed.

                    Beyond this crew, there are other kinds of raw food diets that I also find interesting. Some of them are just, well, raw foods. Others are more specialized, I guess you can say.

                    I have a total *crush* on the Monarch family. I just adore them. I have no clue why. I just do. I watch their videos, I've ordered stuff from them (usually as gifts for friends, but still), and I told DH that I'd love to go to do a retreat at their place. That would be cool. I'm insanely jealous of their greenhouse and biodynamic gardens!

                    I also really like Carol Alt's book and process. She's funny and very personable. And, as an older woman who looks very beautiful and young (good genes, plenty of cash helps), so her perspective definitely piques my interest!

                    And really, the way that these folks eat is a lot closer to what I really prefer, which is the Hippocrates Institute's process.

                    According to this article by Mercola (take him as you will),

                    Four truly powerful nutritional approaches taught at the institute are:
                    • Intermittent fasting and shifting from burning carbs to burning fat as your primary fuel
                    • Eating live, raw foods, including lots of sprouts
                    • Avoiding sugars, refined foods, and processed foods. They also advise avoiding all fruit juices and minimizing fruit initially
                    • Shifting from poor quality protein to high-quality protein
                    I thought this was pretty much in alignment with a lot of the primal/paleo 'stuff' overall. Though these guys guys are against what they call "heavy" animal proteins. Here's a statement by Dr Clement, who is the medical director of the institute:

                    What we have seen recently, after 60 years and working with hundreds of thousands of people, is that when we reduce the amount of protein... and minimize the breakdown effect or digestion effect that your body requires to take this very dense nutrition and split it to amino acids, there’s health balance.

                    Our colleagues in Europe have added another dimension... glycation [and] advanced glycation end products (AGEs). In Germany, they showed us that proteins, when bonding with sugars, actually created another structure.

                    This structure is such an oddity, an enigma to the human biochemistry, that the immune system doesn’t know what to do with it. It runs rampant, actually causing cell death, producing free radicals.
                    Now, in the full quote (this is a snip), he says 'heavy proteins" from animals as a problem, but later in the statement, it looks more like it's the *amount* of protein that is up for question. Thus, he may dispute the 1 g/lb lean muscle mass idea and perhaps replace it with the .5-.8 ranges that I've seen floating around out there. And as such, the source of that protein may not matter so much (I'm not saying "to him" -- he's obviously sold on this process; I just mean, to anyone reading and thinking about it).

                    Which means that hippocrates and paleo/primal *could* be a really good option/blend because of how much they have in common.

                    For my own part, I am basically in this direction.

                    I'm currently drinking water and green juice during the day (kale, cilantro, celery, cucumber, ginger, a small lime or lemon, and a half of a small green apple -- i omit this if i use cucumber). HHI would recommend cutting the fruit, but since we are active and not in a disease state, we are cool with it. I have about 2-4 cups of green juice. That's about 50-100 calories. Then I have a nice, big raw dinner salad -- and i might have eggs or meat with it if I want.

                    I've just started working with wheatgrass and sprouting all kinds of seeds and beans, too. pretty fun.

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                    • #11
                      I don't support raw fruitarianism at all, BUT...

                      I did 3 days of nothing but bananas a while back and I felt good. No weight gain from eating 2000 cals of bananas a day (and I don't do constant cardio in my profession as a law student...hehe). In fact I lost a pound (that never came back).

                      I eat fruit pretty much every day without abandon. I need more protein to function on a daily basis from animal sources (and I love meat) but I can see how eating 2000 cals of fruit every day and nothing else would leave me pretty lean. I would hate my life though without meat and dairy.
                      ------
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                      • #12
                        I personally can't afford to eat 13kgs of fruit a day (was an article about a marathon fruitarian and that's how much he ate a day)
                        I'm sure not all of them eat that much but hell id rather eat 1/4 pound of liver then 5 pounds of fruit for the same amount of nutrients

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                        • #13
                          Freelee did a vlog about how her weekly intake of fruit costs her $250-300 (aus) per week. That's about what our paleo diet runs (for three, though). So, I'd say it's probably do-able. But, $500/wk in produce is a lot for a couple.

                          Growing your own seems like a good idea. I think that's what the author of 811 does.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ForgotMyOldUsername View Post
                            Is there something I'm missing?
                            After around 10 years there is obvious loss of bone and muscle. If you see body shots of Durianrider he is incredibly frail. Mental degeneration as well, his mind is almost completely gone. Lots of erratic behavior, aggression, mood swings -- typical of sugar addiction.

                            In my observation "paleo people" tend to be quite calm and logical, not easy to "rattle" -- Cordain, Sisson, Taubes, Fallon. Attia is slightly more hyper but still sharp as a razor. Their minds still work!

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                            • #15
                              Because its pretty damn hard to keep weight on an all raw fruit/vegetable diet. Avocados are the most calorie dense fruit and you'd still need to eat an entire kilogram (like 2.2 pounds) to get 1600 calories, to maintain my current weight I'd need to get more like 1.5kg of them a day. Eating several kilograms of fruit a day which is damn hard. So its not surprising that they are skinny since they can't meet their calorie needs.
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