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  • #76
    Originally posted by eKatherine View Post
    The problem with the "eat a ton to burn enough calories so you can ingest enough protein" idea is that burning calories through exercise increases the need for routine repair even if you're not building muscle. There's no way to catch up.



    If durian is getting B12 shots now, that's new. Previously he was tested and found to have the lowest level of B12 ever found. The researchers were shocked.

    Another problem with the range of protein intake recommendations as given is that it's not optional which end of the range you're going to be at.

    So one sedentary vegan who happens to naturally fall at the low end of the requirements range might be able to do okay indefinitely. But another one of the same gender, age, weight, and activity level might not do okay with that intake.

    People look at a range and just pick what they think they would like their requirements to be. You can set your intake. But you can't just decide what you want your requirements to be.
    Haven't been on the site for a couple of years either, but yes Durian always advocates B12 shots, and regular blood works.

    The bad thing is they don't listen to anyone who is not as successful, or bloated suffering from eating a ton of fruit, they just say get over yourself and go on that treadmill/bike.... they don't think that some of us have jobs and can't spend the day biking/running to get rid of the sugar energy.

    But there are other more friendly and less demanding fruitarian sites who say eat until you are satisfied but no more and don't over exercise. Even happy for people to have one cooked meal a day.

    I personally believe eating fruit is Paleo as well, and quite believe during paleo times there existed people who wouldn't hunt or can't hunt so were happy with mainly fruit and nuts if available in abundance like in tropical lands. They probably would eat the occasional meat if available to them, but I can't see that it was impossible that some Paleo people ate mainly fruit.

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    • #77
      Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
      Yeah, I would love to see compelling data behind these recommendations. Until then, I'll eat 3 or 4 times that much protein, like every useful person on the planet.
      I provided the CDC link, so you can follow up on their research if you wish.

      So you'd have me eat 140 g of protein, 70 g of fat, and 1,120 g of carbohydrate? Ew. Also, 5,600 kCal. But mostly, Ew.
      I wouldn't have *you* do anything. You should do what you want to do.

      But, if you did want to do 80-10-10, and you believed that you needed that much protein (i suspect that 80-10-10 folk and other raw foodists believe that we don't need that much protein per lb/etc), then those would be your numbers. And it would be up to you to make sure you met them.

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      • #78
        Originally posted by zoebird View Post
        I provided the CDC link, so you can follow up on their research if you wish.
        Yeah, I'll save my energy following up on their research.

        Originally posted by zoebird View Post
        I wouldn't have *you* do anything. You should do what you want to do.

        But, if you did want to do 80-10-10, and you believed that you needed that much protein (i suspect that 80-10-10 folk and other raw foodists believe that we don't need that much protein per lb/etc), then those would be your numbers. And it would be up to you to make sure you met them.
        Yeah, I have 0 interest in 80/10/10, eating 1120 grams/day of carbohydrate, or being a weak hypocrite and a weak stick figure. I was just pointing out that your suggestion of meeting my protein needs based on what you called the "athlete recommendation" and basing 80/10/10 on that figure results in absurd numbers.
        The Champagne of Beards

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        • #79
          Originally posted by Hotmail View Post
          Haven't been on the site for a couple of years either, but yes Durian always advocates B12 shots, and regular blood works.

          The bad thing is they don't listen to anyone who is not as successful, or bloated suffering from eating a ton of fruit, they just say get over yourself and go on that treadmill/bike.... they don't think that some of us have jobs and can't spend the day biking/running to get rid of the sugar energy.

          But there are other more friendly and less demanding fruitarian sites who say eat until you are satisfied but no more and don't over exercise. Even happy for people to have one cooked meal a day.

          I personally believe eating fruit is Paleo as well, and quite believe during paleo times there existed people who wouldn't hunt or can't hunt so were happy with mainly fruit and nuts if available in abundance like in tropical lands. They probably would eat the occasional meat if available to them, but I can't see that it was impossible that some Paleo people ate mainly fruit.
          Yes, mostly in the tropics: fruit, coconut, root veggies, some leaves, and fish. Typical diet. Probably sea veggies, too.

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          • #80
            Sugar has an extremely high burn rate. The only thing with a higher burn rate is protein. It is virtually impossible for the body to store protein as fat. It is very, very difficult for the body to store sugar as fat. Next to straight protein, sugar is the least fattening thing out there.

            Yes, sugar has a bad rap, but it's due to how people consume sugar. When people eat sugar, it's the highly refined kind and it's usually sprinkled on top of something loaded with fat. It's actually the fat we store as fat since the sugar keeps us from using the fat for fuel. Fruitarians tend to be extremely lean because their diets are nearly fat free, meaning there is little to nothing for their bodies to store as fat. Added on top of that, because of sugar's incredibly high burn rate that magnifies with the more sugar you consume, it becomes very difficult to eat maintenance calories to even maintain weight.

            An all-fruit diet is an incredibly fast way to become very lean, but it's also a great way to become nutrient deficient since there are no fat soluble vitamins present. Leanness isn't all there is to it. If you want to be very lean, eat nothing but fruit and protein with little to no fat...but you'll pay for it with your health.
            Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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            • #81
              Does the 10% for protein in the 80-10-10 scheme come from meat? Is it like a cheat? Or do they derive it from hemp and chia and nuts?
              My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
              When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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              • #82
                Originally posted by Leida View Post
                Does the 10% for protein in the 80-10-10 scheme come from meat? Is it like a cheat? Or do they derive it from hemp and chia and nuts?
                They eat 6 suitcases full of lettuce a day. That's like 32g of protein. Depending on the size of the suitcase.
                The Champagne of Beards

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                • #83
                  The whole "don't worry I'm getting all my protein, just from plant sources" is messed up. People need to apply digestibility and usability ratios to get an idea of their net amount. Even then, it ain't the same as eggs and meat.

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
                    Yeah, I have 0 interest in 80/10/10, eating 1120 grams/day of carbohydrate, or being a weak hypocrite and a weak stick figure. I was just pointing out that your suggestion of meeting my protein needs based on what you called the "athlete recommendation" and basing 80/10/10 on that figure results in absurd numbers.
                    The numbers are just the numbers, man. It's nothing to get up in arms about. It "can" be done. I didn't say it would be right for anyone, or that it's super-awesome, or whatever. I just said that it can be done.

                    And, you know, a lot of folks do eat over 3,000 cals/day on paleo. . . and the 811 crowd recommends 3000 cals as a minimum (or at least, the loudest ones do). 300 calories of protein is 75 grams. And I do know paleo folk on 4-5k calories per day, too. They tend to be the more strict ones -- no fruit, no starches, added fats (no oils), etc.

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Leida View Post
                      Does the 10% for protein in the 80-10-10 scheme come from meat? Is it like a cheat? Or do they derive it from hemp and chia and nuts?
                      From the fruit, veggies, and seeds that they eat. Some might also do nuts, and maybe a few avocados per week.

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                      • #86
                        So, they are vegan then. I think I remember looking into it at some point. Mushrooms, nuts, that's if they don't eat pseudo-cereals, like buckwheat or quinoa.

                        It is an interesting lifestyle in theory, but I find it hard to imagine it as anything but a kind of a vacation lifestyle (you go to the tropics for a week or so, and spend it swimming in the ocean and eating fruit and veg)....
                        My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
                        When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Hotmail View Post
                          I personally believe eating fruit is Paleo as well, and quite believe during paleo times there existed people who wouldn't hunt or can't hunt so were happy with mainly fruit and nuts if available in abundance like in tropical lands. They probably would eat the occasional meat if available to them, but I can't see that it was impossible that some Paleo people ate mainly fruit.
                          even a non-hunting, lazy island grok was eating bugs, grubs and seafood. he sure as hell wasn't thriving on 30bad.
                          As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

                          Ernest Hemingway

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                          • #88
                            There is no argument that the fruit itself is intended by nature for eating, to be attractive as food and to be digested. Seeds, leaves, roots, embryos and meats all prefer not to be eaten!
                            My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
                            When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Leida View Post
                              There is no argument that the fruit itself is intended by nature for eating, to be attractive as food and to be digested. Seeds, leaves, roots, embryos and meats all prefer not to be eaten!
                              What? Bright colors, sweet taste, onset of diarrhea when eating sufficient to get the seed out in the shit of fruitivores, where a new baby plant can grow up! Fruits are indeed made to be eaten, with the sole purpose to spread the seed of a plant, true story Leida…
                              "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

                              - Schopenhauer

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                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Leida View Post
                                So, they are vegan then. I think I remember looking into it at some point. Mushrooms, nuts, that's if they don't eat pseudo-cereals, like buckwheat or quinoa.

                                It is an interesting lifestyle in theory, but I find it hard to imagine it as anything but a kind of a vacation lifestyle (you go to the tropics for a week or so, and spend it swimming in the ocean and eating fruit and veg)....
                                811 is fruit, some veg (mostly lettuce), and some seeds.

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