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After Two Years on Paleo Diet My Cholesterol Numbers Look Very Bad

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  • Originally posted by loafingcactus View Post
    Your hemoglobin is perfectly normal. You can look it up, it is the truth.

    If you want to add a ferritin test, you know, whatever, there's a test for that. But a completely normal hemoglobin isn't a stand in test for ANYTHING about ferritin.

    Every time I think this thread is kind of overboard for creating diseases where there are none, it hits a new level.
    There is ONE disease. All of these side-paths are about considering different possible causes for the ONE disease.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by cyberic View Post
      ===
      I have recently caught up on my podcast backlog and heard two interviews with Jimmy Moore in the last couple of days. One interview was with the folks down-under at The Primal Shift and the other was on the Bulletproof Executive podcast. Both are within the last 4-6 weeks. His TC & LDL numbers are "much worse" (per CW standards) than yours, but he gives a great explanation as to what we should be paying attention to, not what we've been led to believe we should be paying attention to.

      Jimmy's book called Cholesterol Clarity might be something you want to check out.
      Which of those two do you think gives the best explanation and I'll go find that one. If you have a URL great.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by noodletoy View Post

        cholesterol is essential to life. EVERY cell in the body makes it. we would die without it.

        the body seeks stasis, so will adjust output in conjunction with what is consumed. this doesn't happen overnight, and, with a serious diet change, could take months. if losing weight, especially if doing so while in ketosis, LOTS of lipids are flowing through the blood stream.

        Diet Heart Myths | Diet Heart Publishing

        the swiss have the highest average cholesterol AND the longest life expectancy in europe.

        assuming that diabetes, cvd and obesity are genetic is all ridiculous. it's a family's krap diet and lack of exercise causing this. you eat what mom or dad makes. if it's crap grains and seed oils, plus sugary treats, you're starting early with a deck stacked against you.

        Cholesterol and Controversy: Past, Present and Future | Guest Blog, Scientific American Blog Network

        pretending there is ONE magic number that is right for everybody is just like saying every woman should weigh 110 pounds. it's just big pharma wanting to sell drugs.

        the internal balance of the body is not understood by doctors or scientists. why do we want to take a manufactured anything that will reduce one component in isolation since the body works as a whole? this can only make a domino effect of unintended consequences.

        exercise. eat whole foods like meat, liver, shellfish and eggs. these all contain protein/fats/minerals in the complements our body needs for it all to be optimally bio-available.

        stop stressing.

        I agree cholesterol by itself doesn't measure anything important. However, there are a growing number of studies that suggest the number of LDL particles - regardless of their size - does predict risk of death from heart disease. I have a large number of particles, and therefore I am in the high risk pool. It's not all that unreasonable to ask can I make adjustments to diet that get that number down. Since I only got this large particle number after starting to drink coconut milk and cream like water, it's a reasonable experiment to play around with the amounts I eat and see how that affects the result.

        Your statement that genes have nothing to do with heart disease is just wrong. If you feed large amounts of cholesterol or saturated fat to a large population, about 75% of those won't get signficantly worse blood test results for LDL or particle counts. But 25% of the population are what they call "high responders" and they do get significantly worse results. Some of these people have "familial hypercholesterolimia". At very least, I appear to be in the responder group. For people in the responder group, I think it is very very irresponsible to tell them that genetics don't matter.

        Subscribing to Paleo diet means you understand certain principles:

        1) Simple carbs and sugars are very bad and can cause multiple diseases and conditions

        2) Saturated fats are necessary and not evil and should make up a substantial part of the caloric intake

        I think you are going way beyond Paleo - and approaching some kind of religion - when you start to say things like "genes don't matter and eat as much fat as you feel like eating." I don't think you have to believe anything like that to be Paleo.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by RenegadeRN View Post
          Well, I have read through this ENTIRE thread because I didn't want to repeat a suggestion, but I have not seen anyone mention Apo E testing. I believe it is the the genetic variant where LDL b ( small dense particles) are rampant on a normally healthy diet.

          Check out "Track Your Plaque" .com by cardiologist William Davis ( of Wheatbelly fame). I was following that site and his Heart Scan Blog for many years before he even conceived of a Wheatbelly!

          Other than that, I second,( third? ) the suggestions on a complete thyroid panel with free T 3,4, TSH, rT3, AND antibodies.
          hS CRP, and a ECBT. Those tests in the hands of a Paleo/Primal competent MD should provide all you need to know and an overall risk level.

          Just my 2 cents...
          I found the trackyourplaque web site and searched on apoe. I only found one article from 2008. Did you have a specific blog posting in mind?

          Comment


          • Originally posted by westes View Post
            I agree cholesterol by itself doesn't measure anything important. However, there are a growing number of studies that suggest the number of LDL particles - regardless of their size - does predict risk of death from heart disease. I have a large number of particles, and therefore I am in the high risk pool. It's not all that unreasonable to ask can I make adjustments to diet that get that number down. Since I only got this large particle number after starting to drink coconut milk and cream like water, it's a reasonable experiment to play around with the amounts I eat and see how that affects the result.
            Westes, did you listen to the Kresser podcast?

            One of the things I remember he said is if your LDL-P is high he recommends eating a Paleo/ Mediterranean type. Lots of veggies and unsaturated fats like olive oil. So I think you are right to drop the coconut and cream. Husband used to put half and half in his coffee now he makes milk coffee; warmed lowfat milk with gelatin. He's no longer adding saturated fat to foods.
            Life is death. We all take turns. It's sacred to eat during our turn and be eaten when our turn is over. RichMahogany.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by westes View Post
              I agree cholesterol by itself doesn't measure anything important. However, there are a growing number of studies that suggest the number of LDL particles - regardless of their size - does predict risk of death from heart disease.
              there have been numerous studies showing all sorts of correlations to all sorts of things. do you have studies showing causation?


              Since I only got this large particle number after starting to drink coconut milk and cream like water, it's a reasonable experiment to play around with the amounts I eat and see how that affects the result.
              as i said earlier, it takes time for the body to find equilibrium with its cholesterol production and cholesterol you consume. how long have you been chugging cream?

              Your statement that genes have nothing to do with heart disease is just wrong. If you feed large amounts of cholesterol or saturated fat to a large population, about 75% of those won't get significantly worse blood test results for LDL or particle counts. But 25% of the population are what they call "high responders" and they do get significantly worse results.
              which means what? how long was the study? what were the subjects consuming for "cholesterol"? canola oil or salmon? again, a short study proves nothing.


              Some of these people have "familial hypercholesterolimia".
              you're correct. that's' genetic. there is still no proof it causes cvd. it often runs hand-in-hand with high blood pressure which DOES cause heart attacks.
              At very least, I appear to be in the responder group. For people in the responder group, I think it is very very irresponsible to tell them that genetics don't matter.
              have you been diagnosed with "familial hypercholesterolemia"? if not, genetics don't matter. the medical community blames all sorts of stuff on genetics so people feel hopeless. type 2 diabetes and obesity can both be controlled with proper diet and exercise. for free. no damn meds.

              please stop stressing.


              I think you are going way beyond Paleo - and approaching some kind of religion - when you start to say things like "genes don't matter and eat as much fat as you feel like eating." I don't think you have to believe anything like that to be Paleo.
              as far as the fat, i never said any such thing.

              not to bicker, but i follow primal.
              As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

              Ernest Hemingway

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              • Sorry... didn't read thru all the responses, but based on your question I would:
                1 - limit the coconut milk/cream. Stick to real whole foods (whole coconut) and use the milk/cream sparingly as a condiment. No need to load up on it every day! Meats, veggies, fruits should be your staples (with healthy fats for cooking, etc.)
                2 - How about exercise? Especially moving frequently at a slow pace... try walking a few miles over the course of each day. Plus add in weights a couple times per week & sprinting 1 time per week.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by westes View Post
                  Which of those two do you think gives the best explanation and I'll go find that one. If you have a URL great.
                  I liked them both. The Primal Shift podcast can be found here:

                  http://theprimalshift.com.au/tps-11-...h-jimmy-moore/

                  The Bulletproof Exec podcast can be found here:

                  http://www.bulletproofexec.com/69-cl...h-jimmy-moore/

                  Jimmy gets a bit more into the weeds with Dave on the BPE podcast. He does also reference the inflammation testing which can be done; I think it was hsPCR markers as a guide. I'm just getting into this a bit more as my recent cholesterol numbers changed after quitting the statin much to the consternation of my GP after migrating to PB over the last 6-9 months. I'm happy, she is not, but for now at least, I think I am still the customer in this relationship... but I digress... Enjoy!

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by cyberic View Post
                    I liked them both. The Primal Shift podcast can be found here:

                    TPS 11: Cholesterol Clarity with Jimmy Moore | The Primal Shift

                    The Bulletproof Exec podcast can be found here:

                    #69 Clearing Up Cholesterol with Jimmy Moore – Podcast

                    Jimmy gets a bit more into the weeds with Dave on the BPE podcast. He does also reference the inflammation testing which can be done; I think it was hsPCR markers as a guide. I'm just getting into this a bit more as my recent cholesterol numbers changed after quitting the statin much to the consternation of my GP after migrating to PB over the last 6-9 months. I'm happy, she is not, but for now at least, I think I am still the customer in this relationship... but I digress... Enjoy!
                    You are thinking about your relationship all wrong....what you are is the EMPLOYER.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Urban Forager View Post
                      Westes, did you listen to the Kresser podcast?

                      One of the things I remember he said is if your LDL-P is high he recommends eating a Paleo/ Mediterranean type. Lots of veggies and unsaturated fats like olive oil. So I think you are right to drop the coconut and cream. Husband used to put half and half in his coffee now he makes milk coffee; warmed lowfat milk with gelatin. He's no longer adding saturated fat to foods.
                      Yes, since I have linked extensively to Chris Kresser's pages in this discussion, you can be sure I have read his articles, and I did listen to podcast last night as well.

                      Comment

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