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Unraveling insulin resistance - anyone hear of or try this?

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  • Unraveling insulin resistance - anyone hear of or try this?

    Hi,

    I am reading a book about thyroid issues (Why Do I Still Have Thyroid Symptoms? When My Lab Tests are Normal by Datis Kharrazian) b/c I have Hashimoto's.

    My main point of this post is that there's a chapter in it where he talks about insulin resistance. He recommends a fast/detox to unwind insulin resistance.

    Basically, you do 3 to 5 days (or more, if desired) on only lemon water with just a hint of maple syrup (no cayenne). He says you must take at least a sip every 10 to 15 minutes. Then, you switch to a very clean, paleo-type diet with a few specific days here and there where you skip protein.

    In an interview with Jimmy Moore, Dr. Kharrazian explains that having a constant flow of glucose is an important part of supporting the glucuronidation pathway, which needs to be in working order to inactivate "used up" estrogen in the liver and brain. The simple sugar boosts the patients glucuronic acid levels enabling them to clear out their "old" hormones.

    I see a lot around here about IR and am kind of surprised this doesn't show up here. Has anyone ever tried a program like this or have any thoughts about this?

    Thanks!
    spicegirl

  • #2
    I think you can achieve the same thing by hammering hard at the glycolitic pathway with hard sprints twice a week and heavy weight lifting two or three times a week. Or you can do a low carb diet like you described. Although lemon juice and maple syrup detox plus clean paleo with limited protein sounds magic, it's really just a low carb and low calorie.
    Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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    • #3
      Insulin sensitivity is a signifier of overall metabolism which has too many facets for us to comprehend at present. Attempting to manually steer specific hormones is often a fool's errand when we zoom in one domino and ignore the dozen before and after.

      Everyone I know who achieved verified improvements in BG did so with permanent dietary upgrades--more nutrients, fewer toxins, and no temporary measures. The body knows how to heal when given the chance.
      37//6'3"/185

      My peculiar nutrition glossary and shopping list

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      • #4
        Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
        I think you can achieve the same thing by hammering hard at the glycolitic pathway with hard sprints twice a week and heavy weight lifting two or three times a week.
        Hmm. This brings up an interesting point. I think I'm missing something here.

        I usually do a HIIT workout a couple of mornings per week in lieu of sprints b/c I don't want to go out in the dark to sprint.

        Anyhow, I did do sprints one day on my lunch hour. I went all out and loved it. But, the next morning I woke up and could not move my neck. My muscles were completely locked. It took several days (and a few massages) to recover.

        I honestly never made a connection, but could I have some buildup going on?

        Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

        Thanks!
        Last edited by spicegirl; 12-02-2013, 10:02 PM.

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        • #5
          You pulled a muscle. Stop looking for shortcuts and just do things properly. Eat clean and build up to your athletic efforts. Impatience is your enemy.
          Man seeks to change the foods available in nature to suit his tastes, thereby putting an end to the very essence of life contained in them.
          www.primaljoy.co.uk

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          • #6
            Originally posted by MaceyUK View Post
            You pulled a muscle. Stop looking for shortcuts and just do things properly. Eat clean and build up to your athletic efforts. Impatience is your enemy.
            Hi Macey,

            I don't understand. What is it that you believe I am trying to shortcut?

            spicegirl

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            • #7
              The 5 day to improved insulin resistance thing and injuring yourself doing a sprint session when your body wasn't in the necessary condition.
              Man seeks to change the foods available in nature to suit his tastes, thereby putting an end to the very essence of life contained in them.
              www.primaljoy.co.uk

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              • #8
                Originally posted by MaceyUK View Post
                The 5 day to improved insulin resistance thing.
                I am still not clear. I talked about a two-week plan, which is actually done repeatedly for a total of about 8 to 10 weeks (and is pretty much the way I already eat). This plan just adds in three to five days of fasting and resting the system.

                Is there something wrong with doing that?


                Originally posted by MaceyUK View Post
                Injuring yourself doing a sprint session when your body wasn't in the necessary condition.
                To clarify, are you saying that the sprint is what caused my neck to get so stiff? Do you think they are actually related?
                Last edited by spicegirl; 12-03-2013, 10:04 AM.

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                • #9
                  To the OP:

                  The idea that insulin resistance, often a disease many decades in onset, could be significantly improved in such a short time span is medical hogwash that no one would say in front of an educated group of doctors. You would be laughed at, justifiably.....the ingredients for the "cleanse", which has never shown efficacy in cleansing much of anything but calories from your diet, is directly from "The Master Cleanse" of the late 70's. It is pure charlatan BS, in other words.

                  With that said, I use fasting and caloric restriction, all coordinated into cycles based on the starting insulin resistance and other CV factors, as a basis for treating metabolic syndrome. I believe, and am currently working on a scholarly paper to PROVE, that a big factor in our insulin resistance epidemic is more accurately called "glucagon deficiency".....in short, it is the result of often decades of 80-90% of a person's life that their metabolism is in a "fed state" vs fasted, with glucagon being chronically under-utilized. The premise behind my therapeutic approach is to slowly ramp up glucagon and its catabolic mechanisms over time, re-calibrating the relationship of insulin in the body, and thus slowly softening up the scary metabolic syndrome indicators.

                  So yes, fasting does play a role, but Kharrazian would get laughed out of the room if those opinions were ever voiced to an equally educated audience rather than Jimmy Moore.....sorry, them's the facts
                  "The soul that does not attempt flight; does not notice its chains."

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                  • #10
                    If your neck hurt after running in the dark then it was just a pulled muscle or something. Sprinting does not have to be running. I do it on a stationary bike at the gym so I won't fall. The trick is to move the largest muscles of the body as fast as possible. It has little to do with heart rate (although it will go high) or with how "tired" you feel (although you will feel tired if you do it right) or with how sore you are after or whatever.

                    I get confused and can never remember what glucagon and all the other things do or how you trigger them, but I wouldn't be surprised if sprinting and lifting weights doesn't somehow positively effect it. Both these things drain certain stored nutrients in the body and cause adaptations to occur long after the exercise is complete. Both these things break you down and build you back up stronger. That can only be a good thing.

                    Basically the whole primal blueprint thing is that it is natural for us humans to be at times well fed, at times hungry, at times running our asses off or lifting heavy things, at times resting, playing and enjoying our families, at times out in the natural sunlight and at times in pure darkness. These things are enough to bring us health. There is no need for magic cleanses or other tricks when we live more in tuned with our nature.
                    Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by TheyCallMeLazarus View Post
                      To the OP:

                      that a big factor in our insulin resistance epidemic is more accurately called "glucagon deficiency".....in short, it is the result of often decades of 80-90% of a person's life that their metabolism is in a "fed state" vs fasted, with glucagon being chronically under-utilized. The premise behind my therapeutic approach is to slowly ramp up glucagon and its catabolic mechanisms over time, re-calibrating the relationship of insulin in the body, and thus slowly softening up the scary metabolic syndrome indicators.
                      That is interesting. Thanks. I am not even sure if I am insulin resistant. I have not pursued any tests or anything. I just seem to have some of the signs.

                      Note that I am 5'3" and weigh 115 lbs. I work out with either HIIT or weights 3 to 5 times a week and live a pretty primal lifestyle. I cut and stacked wood with my husband the last three weekends and moved a lot of heavy logs around with joy.

                      In your opinion, do you think intermittent fasting is a safe way to go, even for someone with Hashi's (and a few symptoms of insulin resistance)?

                      I do simply follow my body's signals, but with Hashi's it is a bit tricky and I am simply looking toward long-term well being.

                      Thanks!
                      spicegirl

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                      • #12
                        there are all kinds of fasting protocols and you can play around with what works.

                        i most often eat around 10-11 and then again around 5-6. yesterday i had a 23-hour fast though because i was too busy to stop and eat. my diet is still relatively lc, and i think that makes fasting easier for me.

                        how often do you eat now? you may want to try first condensing 3 meals to 2 and see how you do.

                        that lemon juice/maple syrup cleanse gets recycled all the time. i don't see how sipping sugar water all day will cure anything, unless you're a hungry hummingbird.
                        As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

                        Ernest Hemingway

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by noodletoy View Post
                          there are all kinds of fasting protocols and you can play around with what works.

                          i most often eat around 10-11 and then again around 5-6. yesterday i had a 23-hour fast though because i was too busy to stop and eat. my diet is still relatively lc, and i think that makes fasting easier for me.

                          how often do you eat now? you may want to try first condensing 3 meals to 2 and see how you do.

                          that lemon juice/maple syrup cleanse gets recycled all the time. i don't see how sipping sugar water all day will cure anything, unless you're a hungry hummingbird.
                          Noodletoy,

                          Thanks for sharing your approach and your input. I have been primal for three years. I just followed my body's signals and ended up finding this website after I was already eating primal.

                          I've done IFing before and it is easy for me. I'm very comfortable not eating (and I like eating too...lol). I get conflicting info on IFing for someone with Thyroid issue, so I just wonder about it. I do believe a break in eating is overall a good thing. Most animals in nature do it.

                          I tend to eat breakfast and lunch, but not much dinner. That schedule works for me, although I've done IFing the other way (waited until later to eat breakfast).

                          Oh, also, I usually workout first thing and sometimes that is pretty early. I wonder about not eating for long periods after a workout. Would love to hear views on this.

                          I am a huge fan of trying and seeing for yourself b/c every body is different and we all respond to different things.

                          Cheers,
                          sg

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                          • #14
                            I'm interested to see what others have to say about fasting and Hashi's. I have Hashi's and I've heard it's not a good idea.
                            I typically eat about 2 meals + milk coffee with gelatin, but if I get hungry I eat more. I weigh the same as you Spicegirl, but I'm 5'2", so pretty similar. I'm focusing on thyroid improvement and I don't think I am insulin resistant.
                            Life is death. We all take turns. It's sacred to eat during our turn and be eaten when our turn is over. RichMahogany.

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