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too many vegetables?

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  • too many vegetables?

    Hi everyone,

    This is my first post on the forum, although I have been reading this blog for several months now.

    Since last august, I have been eating following the guidelines of the warrior diet: under-eat during the day and have one big feast for dinner. A recent exception that I have made regarding the warrior diet is to completely cut out the 'high-carb' days, where the lifestyle suggests that an individual consumes carbs like brown rice and beans to replete glycogen levels about once a week. I was never a big fan of those foods, as they really taste bland, and was more than happy to cut them out. Now, my diet is a high protein and high fat.

    I have been reading around this blog, and it suggests that around 125 +/- 25 g of carbs a day is ideal to burn off unnecessary body fat. However, my concern is that I absolutely LOVE vegetables. As part of my big daily dinner, I consume many many vegetables, starting with a huge raw leafy salad and going into steamed or baked veggies such as broccoli, zucchini, mushrooms, peppers, and my absolute favorite vegetable of them all: eggplant!

    I just wanted to get your advice on whether it is not a big deal to eat so much veggies. I know the warrior diet book says that the calories in vegetables don't count, and I never bother to worry about capping my intake. I just eat as much as my heart desires. I can't imagine having a meal without them.

    Any thoughts would be appreciated!
    Here it is, your moment of zen.

    It's a no brainer: The journal of the cerebelum

  • #2
    I would imagine that you would have problems exceeding 125g of carbs eating just veg. The veggies that you mentioned are all pretty low carb.
    I grok, therefore I am.


    • #3
      it's pretty hard to eat too many low-carb, nonstarchy veggies.

      This is a produce dominated diet:
      Primal Blueprint and Produce
      Here's what The Primal Blueprint says about produce:

      p40 TPB
      "The gathering of berries and other fruit, leafy greens, primitive roots, shoots and other vegetation, nuts and seeds provide the bulk of Grok's food supply."

      p.112 TPB
      "'it may take some acclimation to center your diet around vegetables....Dont follow the example of restaurants that serve skimpy vegetable portions seemingly just for decoration; serve yourself heaping portions that crowd everything else on your plate"

      "Plant foods..naturally promote a beneficial balance between acidity and alkalinity..inyour bloodstream. Almost all cells prefer a slightly alkaline environment to function properly, but many metabolic processes, including the normal production of cellular energy, result in the release of acidic waste products. The buildup of acidic waste is toxic to your body so it works very hard at all times to preserve a slightly alkaline environment, measured by the familiar pH levels."

      p110 TPB
      see food pyramid: the base is produce indicating that in terms of volume, this is a produce dominated
      diet. His food pyramid is a clear supportive visual to both his writing, and the evidence available
      regarding a primal diet (diet in our environment of evolutionary adaptation). Volume-wise, we're
      eating mostly produce, though in terms of a percentage of calories, we are getting more calories from
      protein and many more from saturated fat even when we don't add much, if any, free fat.

      In this blogpost regarding inflammation and gut health, Mark said:

      "I mentioned Dr. Art Ayer’s Cooling Inflammation blog last week, and I’m
      to do so again. First, Art suggests adopting an anti-inflammatory diet. His dietary
      recommendations are essentially identical to mine – high SFA, moderate animal
      protein, low O-6, O-3 supplementation, leafy greens, some fruit and nuts."

      ❑ 3,500 mg potassium (K) is the "Daily Value" (DV) intake per the FDA, NIH,
      ADA etc. Consdering that nutrient intakes from these organizations reflect
      standard intakes, not optimal, consider viewing potassium needs through a
      'primal' lens based on K intakes in traditional diets and what we know of diets
      in environment closer to those in which we adapted.

      ❑ Potassium intakes in the above 'primal' diets - likely ranges
      based on potassium to sodium ratio
      5mg K:1mg Na to 16mg K: 1mg Na

      based on potassium to calorie ratio
      2-4mg K per calorie ingested

      ❑ 10-13 servings produce will often be required to supply potassium at
      optimal or nearly optimal levels

      ❑ if needed to bring K:Na ratios or K:Kcal ratios into balance, tomato products
      at each meal or by drinking homemade veggie peeling broths are easy, low
      calorie, high potassium supplements. adding 99mg from a potassium tab
      is essentially worthless when total potassium needs are 3,500-12,000 mg.

      Think of magnesium and potassium as the relaxors and calcium and sodium as
      the contractors. We need both - but it's all about ratio just like it is wrt Ω3 and Ω6.
      Last edited by cillakat; 05-12-2010, 01:30 PM.

      iherb referral code CIL457- $5 off first order


      • #4
        Agreed on -some- accounts. Before people start swearing off the broccoli and carrots I think that they should ensure 100% optimal nutrition, and make sure that their o-3 o-6 ratio is good and that they're getting only non-oxidized fats. The biggest mistake a person can make in my opinion is thinking that being low carb is the answer to all of their problems and then eating scrambled eggs, bacon, and almonds for breakfast. Low carb is good, a good move, but unless you have huge insulin resistance there is little point to cutting out non-carby vegetables without addressing the bigger issues.
        Stabbing conventional wisdom in its face.

        Anyone who wants to talk nutrition should PM me!


        • #5
          Thanks for all your helpful replies!

          I do think that I may have understressed the amount of veggies I may consume in a typical meal though.

          For example, this are the veggies I had today:

          3 cups of raw spinach
          2 raw tomatoes
          4 raw peeled cucumbers

          1 small onion
          1 peeled zucchini
          1/2 head cauliflower
          1 cup broccoli
          7 thin stalks of asparagus
          7 medium button mushrooms
          1 pack of enoki mushrooms
          8 mini peppers
          2 chinese eggplants
          several artichoke hearts (frozen trader joe's kinds)

          on top of that, I also had a little bit of goat cheese, some baba ganouj and 3/4 cup organic yogurt.

          those are all the 'carbs' i could remember consuming.

          its quite the long list isn't it.

          looking into some of the online nutrition facts, i may have possibly exceeded that suggested cap on carbs. I really hate to begin worrying about how much i eat. The desire to assuage any food anxiety is why i started the warrior diet and the primal lifestyle in the first place.
          Here it is, your moment of zen.

          It's a no brainer: The journal of the cerebelum


          • #6
            Only if you were uncomfortably bloated or gassy would I say to cut down.


            • #7
              Originally posted by cerebelumsdayoff View Post
              For example, this are the veggies I had today:

              on top of that, I also had a little bit of goat cheese, some baba ganouj and 3/4 cup organic yogurt.

              those are all the 'carbs' i could remember consuming.
              I think it looks AWESOME as long as there was meat at another meal. Hopefully you met zinc, iron, preformed A, and magnesium in another meal or via supplements. The veggie intake rocks though. Excellent.


              iherb referral code CIL457- $5 off first order


              • #8
                If you enjoy eating all those veggies and you aren't feeling any ill effects, then don't worry about it. It's very hard to O.D. on natural ingredients.


                • #9
                  So I'm reading this and thinking, "My God. He's rich." Sadly and crudely, that led me to, "Wonder what he looks like..."

                  And then I thought, "My God. The gas. Wonder how any wife could stand it..."

                  Just my brain on a Friday night.

                  Cucumbers, cauliflower, AND broccoli? Wow.


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by cerebelumsdayoff View Post

                    1 peeled zucchini .
                    I am just curious to why you peeled it. Just wash it and eat that peel.


                    • #11
                      Enjoying the consumption of those things is simply an understatement; it is one of my favorite parts of my nightly meal! It is so true what they say about going primal: you really learn to appreciate the subtle tastes of nature. I was eating raw tomatoes today, and I could not help but to begin pondering about how great that natural taste is. It beats anything processed any time.

                      I have not experienced any negative symptoms as a result of all those veggies, so the positive reinforcement is really welcomed in my psyche! And yes, a nice portion of meat is always a must as a follow up to the veggies.

                      @gottaluvalab I'd be thinking the same thing if I was you as well I may not be the richest guy in town (I'm currently a 22 year old graduate student so money is always tight) but there are always certain things that are worth the stretch of the stipend check, and that includes buying quality food and delicious veggies. And I'd imagine that if I had a wife, then she would be going insane with my food. My ex-girlfriend did not understand why i would not eat grains, and why I would only eat once a day. She thought it was a health hazard and would not open her mind to my ideas about eating. Now that is the American diet at its pinnacle.

                      @canadianwoman I peel many of my veggies, such as zucchini and cucumbers due to paranoia over chemical pesticides. I feel that washing them is not enough, and I would rather rid of the peel to be safe.
                      Here it is, your moment of zen.

                      It's a no brainer: The journal of the cerebelum


                      • #12
                        Fair enough. I peel cucumbers only because I dislike the peel but never peel the others. I've never considered chemicals though. I suppose I should since a lot of things I eat are not organic.


                        • #13
                          I wouldn't sweat it, you live in Ontario, the Canadian government doesn't want Canadians getting sick and having disease. It's not good for the economy or healthcare system. Regulation is good and the pesticides that are used are benign and in insignificant amounts. Turns out our livers are badass organs and if we are getting proper nutrition and exercise we detoxify ourselves well. We as a species have had millions of years of poisoning ourselves with plants, and eating the livers of herbivores (plants have quite a lot of pesticides too). Don't be paranoid, there isn't any good evidence that commercial Canadian produce is harmful.
                          Stabbing conventional wisdom in its face.

                          Anyone who wants to talk nutrition should PM me!