Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Andrew Kim Absolutely Crushes the Ridiculous Notion of Being "Fat Adapted"

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #61
    Originally posted by Knifegill View Post
    And in all fairness to Choco, Meat, eggs, potatoes, dairy is treating me pretty well so far. Making gains in the gym, etc.
    That's awesome. I'm glad to hear that. I know you had some digestive issues in the past, and I truly feel soluble fiber and fermented dairy in the place of insoluble fiber, while possibly unpleasant at first, will in the long run be a big winner. I hope for your continued success!
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
      1.) It is the general consensus on MDA.
      2.) It is in Sisson's pyramid. Added fats are above fruit, dairy and nuts - actual whole foods. Any kind of sugar, even more nutritious ones (honey, maple syrup, molasses, palm sugar) is not mentioned.

      No matter how you spin it, it is what it is. The actual straw man here is you're trying to discount the entire post on some kind of technicality that doesn't hold up no matter how you split the hair.
      Nope. I already said that I agree with you that many people are too concerned with carbs and sugar versus fats, so obviously I did not try to discount the entire post. I said that what I disagreed with was your unnecessary attack on Sisson (one can disagree without attacking) as well as attributing a false and exaggerated position to him. You obviously aren't going to be honest enough to own up to it, so I'll quit wasting my time.
      LastBottleWines

      Comment


      • #63
        Choco, the problem people have with your posts is probably that you speak for all, when all react differently. For me it IS a cardinal sin to add a teaspoon of sugar to my coffee. I can eat fruit but clean sugar just breaks me down. I'm sorry to say that if I were eating like you promoted, I'd be back in the past with all the nightmares, the insomnia, the chronic tiredness, joint pain, and all the nameless issues that have been stalking me for the better part of my life.

        I'm sure it works for you. But it doesn't work for me. By now, those high horses of yours aren't just dead and beaten, but have had every bone in their corpses ground down to bone meal :P

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by Hawkward View Post
          Nope. I already said that I agree with you that many people are too concerned with carbs and sugar versus fats, so obviously I did not try to discount the entire post. I said that what I disagreed with was your unnecessary attack on Sisson (one can disagree without attacking) as well as attributing a false and exaggerated position to him. You obviously aren't going to be honest enough to own up to it, so I'll quit wasting my time.
          That's because I didn't do what you're insinuating I did. I like Sisson. It's your assumption I'm being vitriolic. And it is not unnecessary at all. It is a glaring error that needs to be pointed out over and over and over again so people don't forget.
          Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
            I think the general gist of paleo is wonderful. It's the overassumptions about what our ancestors did/didn't eat and the hijacking by people trying to profit from it that burns my ass and leads people astray. "Eat real food, not processed food." That is absolutely beautiful. Fruits, vegetables, meat, fish, eggs, nuts, dairy. Avoid grains, vegetable oils and refined foods. But that includes refined sugars AND fats. A teaspoon of coconut oil to cook your eggs? No problem. A teaspoon of sugar in your coffee? No problem. But when added fats or sugars are making up significant quantities of your calories, and when you have something like the Carbohydrate Curve and the Primal Blueprint Food Pyramid that instills fear of perfectly whole foods (fruit and dairy) while promoting empty calories like refined fats...it does more harm than good.

            I'm all about simplification. If I wrote a book on how to eat, it would be 3 pages long with two of them being the front and back covers.

            I think Mark Sisson is a good dude, and he definitely revolutionized my way of eating. He's the guy that changed me. But at this point he is obligated to make regular posts and this is becoming an industry for him that forces him to generate too much content and produce irresponsible products like fish oil and protein powder supplements. I think he certainly means well, but by trying to grow his business he is reaching way too far IMO. The Primal Blueprint was better when it was scaled back. But what is superior? A good product that reaches more people or a great product that reaches less? Mark is choosing the former.
            This is a well-reasoned and civil critique. Too bad this one wasn't the first post of the thread.
            LastBottleWines

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by Reindeer View Post
              Choco, the problem people have with your posts is probably that you speak for all, when all react differently. For me it IS a cardinal sin to add a teaspoon of sugar to my coffee. I can eat fruit but clean sugar just breaks me down. I'm sorry to say that if I were eating like you promoted, I'd be back in the past with all the nightmares, the insomnia, the chronic tiredness, joint pain, and all the nameless issues that have been stalking me for the better part of my life.

              I'm sure it works for you. But it doesn't work for me. By now, those high horses of yours aren't just dead and beaten, but have had every bone in their corpses ground down to bone meal :P
              I invite you to go back through my post history and find a single line in anything I've written where I've said "everyone," "everybody" or "all" should do any one specific thing. I'm confident you won't find a single occurrence, and I'm equally confident you're making this up in your own mind.

              Are you *sure* a 16 calorie teaspoon of sugar in your coffee is going to destroy your health, or are you wildly exaggerating? Are you sure a single apple will keep you up all night, or are you embellishing to make a point? I am not calling you a liar, but I've found so many inconsistencies in what people say they do versus what they actually do it makes my head spin. Remember, we are on a forum where the majority of people consider ice cream, doughnuts, chocolate bars, potato chips, Cheetos and Doritos "carbs" even though they are as high if not higher in fats than carbs. What we think we are addicted to and what we think we react poorly to is often wrong since we tend to take biased, myopic views.
              Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by Hawkward View Post
                This is a well-reasoned and civil critique. Too bad this one wasn't the first post of the thread.
                If I wrote like that in my OP's, no one would read the thread and it would be buried quickly. My goal is to get people riled up so they're forced to join the discussion and actually think for themselves. I don't care if it makes me look like a prick. I want you to argue and support your own point. If you have done the research and experimented enough that you have the knowledge and experience to justify what you're doing, you're probably on the right track. If you're one of these people that are entrenched in dogma for really no reason and you can't argue your way out of a paper bag, I'm hoping you'll have a come-to-Jesus moment and a light switch will flip and you'll be motivated to truly experiment and find out what works, not make poor decisions out of fear. Do you understand why I write the way I write now?
                Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                Comment


                • #68
                  ChocoTaco (man, what a weird name for this forum...), you should do like a month long "day in the life" kind of thread some time, showing what your diet / exercise life is like.

                  M.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by MEversbergII View Post
                    ChocoTaco (man, what a weird name for this forum...), you should do like a month long "day in the life" kind of thread some time, showing what your diet / exercise life is like.

                    M.
                    I concur.

                    Call it:

                    How Choco-Taco works

                    Or

                    A month of Choco-Tacos

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by MEversbergII View Post
                      ChocoTaco (man, what a weird name for this forum...), you should do like a month long "day in the life" kind of thread some time, showing what your diet / exercise life is like.

                      M.
                      I would like to, but I'm not militant enough, physically impressive enough and I'll probably do a half-assed job updating everything due to lack of time and my natural forgetfulness. My diet is I bet a lot better than people think it is, and probably more Primal than most people that rail against me to be honest, but it's not perfect enough that I'd want to set the example that everyone can eat like me and be successful. For example, I eat ice cream 4 times a week. The caveat: I lift my ass off, it's all homemade in my ice cream maker and I time it after my workouts only. I'd bet my ice cream is several times more nutritious and healthier than the average American's lunch of a sandwich, a bag of pretzels and a Coke, but I don't want to set the stage that a 45 year old housewife who just started a beginner's gym routine can eat ice cream all the time as long as it's homemade.

                      I don't want people to be me, I want them to think objectively and find their own path.
                      Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by MEversbergII View Post
                        ChocoTaco (man, what a weird name for this forum...), you should do like a month long "day in the life" kind of thread some time, showing what your diet / exercise life is like.

                        M.
                        He sort of had that with his Food Porn thread. The guy can cook.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          It would be mostly food pictures...
                          Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                            I invite you to go back through my post history and find a single line in anything I've written where I've said "everyone," "everybody" or "all" should do any one specific thing. I'm confident you won't find a single occurrence, and I'm equally confident you're making this up in your own mind.

                            Are you *sure* a 16 calorie teaspoon of sugar in your coffee is going to destroy your health, or are you wildly exaggerating? Are you sure a single apple will keep you up all night, or are you embellishing to make a point? I am not calling you a liar, but I've found so many inconsistencies in what people say they do versus what they actually do it makes my head spin. Remember, we are on a forum where the majority of people consider ice cream, doughnuts, chocolate bars, potato chips, Cheetos and Doritos "carbs" even though they are as high if not higher in fats than carbs. What we think we are addicted to and what we think we react poorly to is often wrong since we tend to take biased, myopic views.
                            He he he, caught me red-handed! It's true that I over-exaggerated. I occasionally indulge in sugar treats. But i'm really not exaggerating by much, and I WILL feel the effect of that teaspoon of sugar even if I don't flat out crash and burn from it. That teaspoon will still make me feeling unpleasantly hyper. I do eat fruit, and honey too, and it doesn't have as much of a bad effect (even though I have to restrict those as well) as refined sugar no matter how diluted the latter have been. Couldn't tell you why, but that's how it is. I very much prefer being fat adapted when I have the opportunity to stay that way.

                            The thing is, I don't need to quote you on posts where you've literally written the words 'everybody' or 'everyone', because I can still turn to phrases such as, say, 'Andrew Kim Absolutely Crushes the Ridiculous Notion of Being "Fat Adapted"', just to name one example.
                            If being fat adapted is truly ridiculous, then obviously that would apply to everyone or you should seriously consider using different words to communicate your point. From my point of view, Kim isn't even close to crushing anything here. in fact, if being fat adapted is a bulls eye target, and Kim's article is a bow and arrow, you're still trying to shoot the target with your back facing the bullseye board. That isn't 'crushing' a 'ridiculous notion'. That's just beating a dead horse. :P

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by drjoyous View Post

                              That may change in the future, depending on how i feel. Choco may sometimes rub some of us the wrong way (me too...) but he has good ideas to CONSIDER, just as many others do. Does he sometimes rant? Sure. So what? If you react to his rant with dismissiveness and don't listen (to him or anyone else that sets you off...), you let his feelings dictate your own. Let him be who he is!
                              Here's the deal with choco...

                              Choco hates PUFA's he blames every metabolic malaise squarely on them.

                              Then you got the other respected board members, neckhammer, rich mahogany, myself and many others all disliking PUFA's too. But we all agree that there are other factors (some more prevalent) that contribute to metabolic malaise's (like over consumption of cheap carbs). We try to explain this time and time again but he don't want to listen. He doesn't want to CONSIDER the stance of many of us and therefore we don't consider his stance. It usually devolves into what many other posters described in this thread (ie choco throwing the toys out of the pram).

                              So here we are again, choco with the broken record repeating, "it's the PUFA's", not comprehending why mark and many forum posters are mostly ok with his food pyramid and carb curve (they do need a little refinement). We aren't all butthurt by the fact that some PUFA's are discretionary, choco is on a crusade (can you see his little sword and shield) to rid the blueprint of PUFA's.



                              Sent from my iPhone
                              A little primal gem - My Success Story
                              Weight lost in 4 months - 29kg (64 lbs)

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Reindeer View Post
                                He he he, caught me red-handed! It's true that I over-exaggerated. I occasionally indulge in sugar treats. But i'm really not exaggerating by much, and I WILL feel the effect of that teaspoon of sugar even if I don't flat out crash and burn from it. That teaspoon will still make me feeling unpleasantly hyper. I do eat fruit, and honey too, and it doesn't have as much of a bad effect (even though I have to restrict those as well) as refined sugar no matter how diluted the latter have been. Couldn't tell you why, but that's how it is. I very much prefer being fat adapted when I have the opportunity to stay that way.

                                The thing is, I don't need to quote you on posts where you've literally written the words 'everybody' or 'everyone', because I can still turn to phrases such as, say, 'Andrew Kim Absolutely Crushes the Ridiculous Notion of Being "Fat Adapted"', just to name one example.
                                If being fat adapted is truly ridiculous, then obviously that would apply to everyone or you should seriously consider using different words to communicate your point. From my point of view, Kim isn't even close to crushing anything here. in fact, if being fat adapted is a bulls eye target, and Kim's article is a bow and arrow, you're still trying to shoot the target with your back facing the bullseye board. That isn't 'crushing' a 'ridiculous notion'. That's just beating a dead horse. :P
                                Being "fat adapted" doesn't exist. People who are severely insulin resistant feel better excluding carbohydrate because it keeps their blood sugar stable. It isn't because of some kind of "fat adaptation." You're simply taking the issue of blood sugar spikes out of the equation.

                                This sends a poor message because blood sugar spikes are not unhealthy. They are extremely healthy, and spiking your blood sugar promotes insulin sensitivity, not insulin resistance. Avoiding blood sugar spikes promotes insulin resistance - your insulin cannot drop below a certain point, so when you avoid the spikes, in order to metabolize more FFA's to pick up the slack from the lack of glucose, your body becomes physiologically more insulin resistant to compensate. The average low carber is much more insulin resistant than the average high carber.

                                The above is not metabolic syndrome, but rather a natural responsible to a low carbohydrate diet. In the context of metabolic syndrome, it is important to note that carbohydrate does not cause it (like paleo tends to imply). Some people think eating carbs tires out the pancreas and overtime you become insulin resistant because of chronic insulin production, but this is a ridiculous notion because protein causes the pancreas to excrete just as much insulin as carbs, and in addition it must work even harder to excrete glucagon - meat would be even more harmful to the pancreas! What metabolic syndrome is is a runaway fatty acid metabolism. When a healthy person consumes sugar, what is supposed to happen is the sugar is quickly cleared from the bloodstream and shuttled into mitochondria where it is oxidized as fuel preferentially. Free fatty acid metabolism is decreased while sugar metabolism is increased. In a person with metabolic syndrome, the sugar enters the bloodstream but it cannot be cleared quickly enough. Blood sugar stays high, so even when you eat sugar, you continue to burn fat. That's not what's supposed to happen. I make the joke often that diabetics are the ultimate "fat burning beasts" because they never stop burning fat, even when you give them sugar. My belief is this situation is caused by too much polyunsaturated fat and not enough nutrition (i.e. antioxidants) to stave off the damage oxidizing PUFA does to the human body. Sugar is actually protective against metabolic syndrome because it keeps insulin sensitivity high. I believe it is the fatty acid composition of the American diet leading to all these health problems - too much PUFA in relation to SFA. Keep your SFA:PUFA ratio high and cycle sugar into your diet often to maximize your insulin sensitivity. If you're already unhealthy, the prescription is a little different, but that's my belief and understanding.
                                Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 11-07-2013, 08:46 AM.
                                Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X