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  • #16
    Originally posted by Mr. Koozie View Post
    I disagree with this statement. I think it’s much easier to be healthy these days. Grocery stores sell organic fruits & vegetables and grass-fed red meat (even some Walmarts do) and a plethora of healthy foods such as coconut products (which weren’t available to the masses just a few years ago). We have people like Mark Sisson, Robb Wolf, Chris Kresser, Jason Seib, Sarah Fragoso, Jimmy Moore, etc. doing their best to educate as many people as possible about being healthy with books / websites / seminars / podcasts. There are gyms everywhere. Craigslist is full of cheap weight equipment. Minimalist shoes are available. There are a ton of health-related documentaries out there. We have farmers mimicking the sustainable and soil-producing practices of Joel Salatin.

    15-20 years ago none of these things were available. Sure, it may be difficult to start the process of becoming healthy but once a person goes down that path a world of options opens up, and it’s always growing.

    Sorry, I just had to point that out. As far as how fat people will get I agree with what others are saying. Here in the middle of the US where I live most people are huge. I know very few people who are even trying to slim down and/or become healthier. Most won’t even entertain the idea. Overweight/obesity is the norm in this part of the country for sure. I’m trying not to judge, because I was obese too before I took charge of my health.
    I think you are right. Perhaps I'm still living in the past. The first time I ever tried dieting was around 8 years ago. There wasn't much out there back then, just the low carb diet craze. And such wasn't even good back then when they're marketing it as you can eat UNLIMITED amounts of fat, but carbs are the devil. It left me confused, and it really did take me years to work through the maze. Without learning about IF in later years, I probably would have still been lost in the dark.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Leida View Post
      The correct information is out there. It is summed up by most realistic movements. The message is: "Do not eat processed crap". The rest is a personal choice and experimentation.
      I agree. So many people do not want to make the effort. I realize there is some confusion, but for most people, if they just followed whole foods, even with whole grains on the menu, they'd be OK.

      Look at how much soda still gets consumed. You'd have to live under a rock to think drinking soda and giving it to your kids is OK. Or fast food. Why does my local grocer have a whole aisle of chips? I think people are aware of (excess) sugar being bad, even if they haven't gotten the message on grains.

      I know plenty of people who eat and understand paleo and still eat crap foods. They have the info, and still eat junk.

      The bottom line is that if you have gained excess fat, losing it is very difficult. It is much easier to say "OK, I'm healthy fat" than to make the lifestyle changes most would have to make to lose it. Our whole structure of society is set up to enable obesity. Eating bad foods is nearly engineered into our lives. People go to the bar to be social and eat and drink crap. Holidays are 90% about eating crappy food. Crappy food is how we bond at work. Everyone is aware of the impact- my FB for the past week has been filled with friends loathing themselves for eating their kid's bucket of candy.

      It's just so available and more or less, never feels very optional. When you stack up the chaos that is a lot of people's lives with work/commute/kids stuff, the foundation of healthy living- diet and exercise just gets chipped away at. And if you do take the time to be healthy, a lot of people view it as self centered.

      I recently read an article in my local paper about a guy who failed to complete P90X. In the end, he thought it was making him a worse son, employee, boyfriend to go devote about an hour a day to exercise (among other things). Priorities in the US have simply really skewed away from having a healthy lifestyle into god know what.

      http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
      Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

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      • #18
        If conventional wisdom comes to view refined sugar and flour they way that it currently views saturated fat, then we might reverse the trend and get thinner. Otherwise, its likely that people will continue to get fatter, and I along with the other thin people will be banished to the North Pole to prance naked as per previous comment :-). In my mind I'd be living on seal liver and herring, which would be totally fine by me....
        Healthy is the new wealthy.

        http://www.facebook.com/groups/ances...handnutrition/

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        • #19
          Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
          The other thing I think will happen is a shrinking of the "middle weight" so to speak. I think you will have more super fit/healthy people and WAY more fat people, and fewer middle sized people. If I was a retailer of women's clothing, I'd anticipate selling more 0/2/4/6 and more 14/16/18/20 and fewer 8/10/12 sizes. It's kind of like wealth, where the middle class erodes. While, yes more and more people eat full on crap, you also have all the very health aware people involved in fitness, yoga, Whole Foods etc.
          Interesting observation. You're onto something... if London is anything to go by. Here the vast majority of women are between 17-19% bf, or else are overweight. Women like me (20-22%) are more rare; even though you'd think this is the easier weight range to maintain.

          Race is a big factor, from what I've observed.
          "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

          In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

          - Ray Peat

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          • #20
            Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
            I think the desire to get obese/morbidly obese is very rare and limited to sumo wrestlers, a few men, and the odd woman. Far, FAR more people want to get thin, but do not want to do the work. People spend a lot on weightloss.

            Every woman I know that is even slightly overweight wants to lose weight. I have never met one who wanted to gain more. What I do see are more people who just accept their weight and don't take action to lose it, but they are not eating hohos in hopes of someday getting from 200lbs up to 300 lbs.

            For men, it may be different but I know very few misguided power lifters getting fat in the pursuit of strength. OK, none. I only know one male powerlifter and he has great abs and does not seem interested in undoing them.

            I think as a society, we are very slowly accommodating the obese, but we really are not celebrating it. I don't think little girls are looking at Adele and dreaming of being fat just like her. Celebs/models/images of "successful" women still tend to be slim/healthy. I don't think people are happy to be getting fatter, they are just choosing to ignore it,
            What this shows to me is a difference in perspective based on who you know and what you've been exposed to. In other words, my experience compared to yours. Surely I've never known any women who actually wanted to get bigger, but I have seen a lot who are in denial of how big they really are. They say their not fat, they're big boned. And their friends deny it so they won't hurt their feelings, and say "she's not fat, she's beautiful". I've seen it many times.

            In the weightlifting world, it's been a different story for me. But realize I started lifting 20 years ago when all we had to look at for motivation in the gym was bodybuilding magazines. Bigger was thought to be better. I can remember thinking that a lot of the guys didn't take steroids. I can remember thinking that some day I'd be as big as Franco Columbu and that I'd get there without taking drugs. Sure, I pushed hard to get my weight past 170 lbs, but little did I know that such was a perfect weight for me and that any extra weight I'd put on would be fat no matter how much I trained.

            Then years later when I competed in powerlifting, my friends praised my big belly. When I was 220 lbs, and fat, my coach wanted me to get up to 240 lbs ASAP, and my other friend wanted me to get up to 275 lbs. Both were fat, one 275 lbs and having trouble moving around, the other 300 lbs. I had trouble just to walk down the street at 220 lbs. My friends thought hitting big numbers was more important than your health. And the truth is, the best lifters under 220 lbs were benching in the 600's while the best lifters in the 275 lb class were benching over 700.

            Anyways, I'm just saying, different experiences for different people. It wasn't everyone who was or even wanted to be that big. We did have some strong light weight lifters. Personally, my health was most important to me, so I got out of it. I'm lighter now, more healthy, etc.. And ever since I got my weight under 185 lbs, I've felt like a kid again. I intend on keeping it that way for life.

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            • #21
              I have seen a lot who are in denial of how big they really are. They say their not fat, they're big boned. And their friends deny it so they won't hurt their feelings, and say "she's not fat, she's beautiful". I've seen it many times.
              Oh yeah, I see this a lot, haha, I lived it. I actually damn near had a breakdown this weekend as I was walking thru the plus size department, saw some size 18 pants and was like "holy hell" and then realized I used to wear pants like that and tell myself I was OK. And my friends agreed. All the sudden this wall of shame hit me about who I used to be. I didn't see how out of scale to a healthy body I was.

              http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
              Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Leida View Post
                The correct information is out there. It is summed up by most realistic movements. The message is: "Do not eat processed crap". The rest is a personal choice and experimentation.
                While that's true, there is the impact of failure. If eating whole grains and low fat, with no processed foods, makes me miserable and doesn't do a thing for my weight what should I do? Keep up with it or fall of the bandwagon and eat ice cream and cake? I know what choice I made in the past.
                Out of context quote for the day:

                Clearly Gorbag is so awesome he should be cloned, reproducing in the normal manner would only dilute his awesomeness. - Urban Forager

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
                  Oh yeah, I see this a lot, haha, I lived it. I actually damn near had a breakdown this weekend as I was walking thru the plus size department, saw some size 18 pants and was like "holy hell" and then realized I used to wear pants like that and tell myself I was OK. And my friends agreed. All the sudden this wall of shame hit me about who I used to be. I didn't see how out of scale to a healthy body I was.
                  Come to think of it, I've been through it too.

                  Back in my powerlifting days, my friends and competing gave me so much confidence. I was used to being around guys who were bigger than me so I didn't know the difference. I thought I was only a little bit chubby and that it was genetics. I had confidence in myself. Couldn't figure out why I couldn't get/keep a good date though.

                  That was until a REAL good friend of mine told me the truth with tough love, that I was disgustingly fat, and he wouldn't let up about it. I hated it, but thanked him years later after losing the weight and changing my life around. I never really noticed how fat I was until later on looking back at old pictures.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Ripped View Post
                    Then years later when I competed in powerlifting, my friends praised my big belly. When I was 220 lbs, and fat, my coach wanted me to get up to 240 lbs ASAP, and my other friend wanted me to get up to 275 lbs. Both were fat, one 275 lbs and having trouble moving around, the other 300 lbs. I had trouble just to walk down the street at 220 lbs. My friends thought hitting big numbers was more important than your health. And the truth is, the best lifters under 220 lbs were benching in the 600's while the best lifters in the 275 lb class were benching over 700.
                    Power lifter slobs, dirty bulking bodybuilders, and Sumo fatties; they are all trying to gain an advantage for their sport by eating enormous amounts of foods! Hmmm, to be honest, I have done my fair share in contributing in destroying buffets and participating in eating orgies myself, when I struggled to gain weight for sport long time ago…
                    "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

                    - Schopenhauer

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Leida View Post
                      The correct information is out there. It is summed up by most realistic movements. The message is: "Do not eat processed crap". The rest is a personal choice and experimentation.
                      I agree with that more than anything when compared to the this diet vs that diet mentality. All the good ones have the same thing in common, less processed crap.

                      However, I also have to add how much IF has helped me and I'm sure many others. Not only do we eat less processed junk, but now we can also eat less often which results in eating less total food on average, and that helps A LOT. Put both together and you've got a flexible and easy to follow fail proof plan.

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                      • #26
                        While that's true, there is the impact of failure. If eating whole grains and low fat, with no processed foods, makes me miserable and doesn't do a thing for my weight what should I do?
                        No one particular approach beyond the basic of not eating processed food (which includes commercial pasta and bread, btw, the main culprits in people not losing on LF/HC imo) and eating beyond satiety, has universal success rate.
                        My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
                        When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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                        • #27
                          So I take it the consensus is that people are actually starting to realize that how disgustingly fat they are, more realistic and practicable information is available for them these days, and so more often they are starting to do something about it. Hmm, I'd say that's a good thing.

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                          • #28
                            Put both together and you've got a flexible and easy to follow fail proof plan.
                            Neither fail-proof, nor universal. Blood sugar regulation, hormonal levels and eating psychology makes smaller more frequent meals beneficial for at least as many people as the IF-Success group.
                            My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
                            When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Leida View Post
                              Neither fail-proof, nor universal. Blood sugar regulation, hormonal levels and eating psychology makes smaller more frequent meals beneficial for at least as many people as the IF-Success group.
                              Once you read up enough about the topic of IF, you then know enough to know that meal frequency only matters from a personal strategic perspective. In other words, it gives you freedom to choose which one you like better and why.

                              With that being said, I can't think of any situation where 6 meals per day including eating when you aren't hungry would be more beneficial for fat loss than less meals per day. I can remember years ago believing in that theory and eating at 5:30 AM when I wasn't even awake or hungry yet and when I had a LONG day ahead of me. Not a good strategy.

                              I actually do have a friend who does better with more meals per day because he is thin, has a small stomach, doesn't like to eat, fills up quick, and has trouble eating enough to maintain weight. He fasts sometimes out of laziness. But more meals on most days of the week helps him make up for it.

                              Anyways, close enough to fail proof for me. I went from being obese, lost 30 lbs and got back down to healthy weight, and kept it off for years and going.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
                                Interesting observation. You're onto something... if London is anything to go by. Here the vast majority of women are between 17-19% bf, or else are overweight. Women like me (20-22%) are more rare; even though you'd think this is the easier weight range to maintain.

                                Race is a big factor, from what I've observed.
                                I see this in New York as well, specifically Manhattan. I'd say most women, are between 17% - 21% or over weight. You don't see a ton of size 8 women.

                                I'm not sure how much of it is that race is a factor as poverty is the main factor. In general, there tend to be more non whites living in poverty or near poverty. Poor = live in food deserts, can only buy what is cheap (packed processed crap), no time/education/resources to cook healthy meals, less time for exercise and less access to safe spaces to be active in, etc.
                                Last edited by ELizabeth826; 11-05-2013, 04:06 PM.
                                No disease that can be treated by diet should be treated with any other means.
                                -Maimonodies

                                The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea.

                                Babes with BBQ

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