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  • Problem with IF



    When i go without eating, or when I workout on an empty stomach, my body does not feel good. wouldn't feeling bad bring about stress? I understand calorie restriction is the only proven method thus far to extend life. But stress shortens life. How do IF fans reconcile this?


    No doubt grok went days without eating. but this seams to be a stress that we (modern society) having the luxury of diminishing.


    your thoughts?


    thanks!


  • #2
    1



    IF relies upon fat to tide you over until the next meal. Are you eating enough fat? You should not feel like you are starving.


    I have no problems working out heavily when IFing. However I do work out about 4 hours after my main meal.

    The "Seven Deadly Sins"

    Grains (wheat/rice/oats etc) . . . . . Dairy (milk/yogurt/butter/cheese etc) . . . . . Nightshades (peppers/tomato/eggplant etc)
    Tubers (potato/arrowroot etc) . . . Modernly palatable (cashews/olives etc) . . . Refined foods (salt/sugars etc )
    Legumes (soy/beans/peas etc)

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    • #3
      1



      First, if you feel bad, you should end the fast. IF, anecdotally and for me personally, make people feel more alert and energized. If you're not getting those effects, you're body may not be ready to IF for that length of time.


      Studies show that lifting on an empty stomach can boost the body's production of growth hormones, which is a good thing. Even if you're not trying to build muscles. The reason, more than likely, that you're feeling terrible during your IF is b/c you're body isn't tuned into using your fat stores for energy. So your body thinks it's starving and so you feel the negative symptoms.


      You may want to ease into it and, like Tarlach mentioned, make sure the meals you eat contain hefty amounts of fat and protein with a good portion of vegetable-based carbs thrown in for good measure. Definitely lose any grain, legume, sugar or sugar-like carbs from your diet. If you're a breakfast eater, try skipping breakfast 1-2x a week. Then, when you're used to that, start pushing lunch back to a later time 1-2x a week. When that becomes easier, try going until dinner. Again, IF only as long as you want to. Remember, it's a useful tool, but not required for overall health.


      As far as IF stressing the body, that is exactly what we want it to do. Small, controlled, infrequent stresses are good for the body. It's the prolonged, frequent ones that reek havoc. Look up "hormesis" on Wikipedia (for simplicity).

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      • #4
        1



        I've read about calorie restriction extending life. How much does one restrict? In GCBC, Taubes says calorie restriction could be one of the reasons the Japanese have the highest longevity. I'm relatively new to primal and I *think* I'm above carb-cravings and in the last 2 days I've done 2 IFs with no problem. However, last night I had slight neck pain, the kind that I have when I'm tired or fatigued. Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but how do I know I'm ready for IF? My calorie inatke is on an average 1350 (5'0", 115 lb, 25-26% BF) and about 100 cal less than that when IFing.

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        • #5
          1



          I feel that you shouldn't start playing with IF until you have your diet locked in. If you're doing The PB (which I assume you are since you're here!)I think you should wait until you are adhering to the, at least, 80% rule for 6 months.


          A shift to a healthy diet will make TONS of difference to your health and physique. Remember, IF is a good tool to use from time to time, but it cannot make up for a faulty foundation in nutrition. Use it when you can and when you feel like it, but do not to use it as a SUBSTITUTION for a healthy diet.


          Keep in mind that IF isn't necessary, but can be quite useful when implemented properly.

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          • #6
            1



            Clint, both these IFs were inadvertent, in that, the one day I had a REALLY heavy breakfast and couldn't even bear to look at the lunch I'd packed. And the next day, I knew I was going to have a heavy ealry lunch - I was eating out w/ a friend - so I skipped breakfast and had absolutely no problem. Will keep your advice in mind.

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            • #7
              1



              If you're not having any negative symptoms and they come about through a natural course of events, then I'm all for it.


              That's actually the best kind. It's the truest sense of the term "Intermittent"! This is how I try to do it, but I'll plan them as well.


              My advice it definitely a general, kind of "rules of thumb" and not a one size fits all. Keep up the good work and keep us posted!

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              • #8
                1



                maba. . .when Dr. Oz presented the concept of Calorie Restriction on Oprah, he highlighted one man who eats around 1950 calories a day, and a couple--the man eats around 1900 and the woman 1600-1700.


                There is a site devoted to it--there is an emphasis on nutrient-dense food, but they are definitely against saturated fat. And if you read about risks, muscle loss is definitely there. Proceed with caution. . .


                (If you google Oprah on the forum here, there is a link to that show. . .)

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                • #9
                  1



                  ^^^


                  Great points!

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                  • #10
                    1



                    THanks everyone for your thought posts. PB has been fine tuned, but only for 4 months now. Perhaps I should wait and try again, or perhaps wean myself more steadily.


                    clint- thank you for your comments. you sound well informed and honest in your assessment. May I have the link or the name of the study that says lifting on an empty stomach promotes secretion of growth hormones? It seams to me that the body would instead want to conserve its recourses, much less secrete a hormone that tells it to grow!

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                    • #11
                      1



                      Catalina, true, but that applies to fasting longer than 24 hrs, right? Otherwise, from my understanding, your body would not dip into your muscle for energy within 16 - 24 hrs of a fast, conceivably.


                      I've only been on PB for about a month and I IF regularly. If I plan it, I try to plan it in between really good PB days where my fat and protein were really high, then hunger and other 'negatives' do not plague me.

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                      • #12
                        1



                        I've been toying with IF unintentionally (missing PWO meals about once a week) and such and I just can't do it sometimes. Or if I workout on any empty stomach with heavy weights, then I'll feel waves of nausea throughout. I never used to get that feeling when I did body weight exercises and followed Warrior Diet (Eating one huge meal a day to cover your caloric needs). Dialing it in has been a struggle for me with weights and intense, short cardio like punching a heavy bag or sprints.

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                        • #13
                          1



                          A couple of points:


                          IF and CR are COMPLETELY different protocols. CR means you eat less than your maintenance for life. IF means on certain days you may eat less, but you can make up for the lost calories when you eat. If you IF for 24 hrs, then try to eat double the next (if you can). The point is, on a large scale (weeks, months, years) IF doesn't keep your calories low. CR, on the other hand, does. The good thing is that IF has been shown to have the same benefits of CR w/o the drawbacks. I believe in IF, but NOT CR if you plan to be even moderately active. Read this:


                          http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/100/10/6216


                          @Wyatt:

                          I'll get you more links when I have more time, but try searching for stuff by Art DeVany and Robb Wolf for starters. They'll have tons of links to studies. For now here's one to keep you busy!


                          http://www.fasebj.org/cgi/content/full/17/9/1133

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                          • #14
                            1



                            SassaFrass. . .what Clint said. The Calorie Restriction website lists muscle loss as a risk for eating that way--just in general, nothing to do with IF.

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                            • #15
                              1



                              Here's some more links to read up on workouts while fasted.


                              http://jp.physoc.org/content/568/1/283.full


                              http://www.fitnessspotlight.com/2008/5/19/reasons-why-you-should-workout-fasted/


                              http://www.fitnessspotlight.com/2008...-and-the-rest/

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