Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Something doesn't seem right.

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    I never believed the "meat rots in yer gut" line from the anti-meat crowd (I'm not saying KnifeGill is anti-meat). I'm convinced its all the artificial chemicals and plastics (that what I call it) in our assembly line food. Our stomach and intestines have digestive juices that would, given enough time, probably melt metal. Meat is no problem for it.

    Since going Primal I have about 80% less gas and intestinal discomfort and my "farts" are not NEARLY as offensive as they used to be.
    I think I've N=1'd living off meat long enough to know it's nearly perfect. Meat dissolves almost completely in the early digestive tract. On steak and eggs, I had perfect stools! But as for starch, I am almost a complete stranger to the ways!
    Crohn's, doing SCD

    Comment


    • #17
      How about fruit compared to vegetables as far as digestion goes?

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Ripped View Post
        Right. To elaborate on the thing I'm saying about the protein is that maybe too much protein is ok. But perhaps too much protein every day isn't because it doesn't allow for autophagy. You eat plenty and this allows you to store up some fat. You take a break, burn up some fat, and burn up some bad cells along with it.
        I don't believe that your body goes into autophagy unless you fast. Unused protein is broken down in the liver and made into urea so when you buy a protein shake and have it after dinner you really are pissing away your money. I've been trying 16/8 IF every few days and it seems to be working nicely.
        Man seeks to change the foods available in nature to suit his tastes, thereby putting an end to the very essence of life contained in them.
        www.primaljoy.co.uk

        Comment


        • #19
          1,2,3: -- All of these are comparing a human to an entirely different species, of which the common ancestor is in the neighborhood of 1.5 million years ago. By this same logic, bears and dogs (share a common ancestor of closer lineage, look at the muzzles of both species) should be compared. A grizzly is often strongly herbivoric, eating meat only seasonally when it is most available. Black bears almost never eat meat....yet they are pure muscle, one of the most powerful animals on Earth.

          4. Our bodies don't have any traits of a carnivore.
          -- Not true. Our dentition is poor for eating plants. We also have a small, more acidic stomach, no ruminant structures, no cud processing. Also our plant eating is very selective. Checkout what a bear or deer can eat that we cannot....pickup an acorn snack and see how that goes

          5. Our digestive tracks represent that of a herbivore, not a carnivore.
          -- See above. Not remotely true. I have gutted deer, bears, rabbits, elk, etc. The cud processing, compartmentalizing stomach is the evolved state of a herbivore. Eating constantly is the rule of the day for most herbivores, due to the low calorie content of most real-world vegetable matter. The digestive track is very long, especially in the beginning stomachs, usually multiple....a carnivore, like a wolf or lion, is longer on the BACK end, like our small and large intestines are.

          6.We can survive off from meat. No problem. I'm sure other primates could too.
          7. Meat was essential for survival in places and during times when plants weren't available.

          -- Even though we CAME from equatorial Africa, many estimate that only a few thousand initially left. In other words, we were NOT yet a very successful species....what separated us as a species was the ability to thrive in cold, short growing season places, and to be strong hunters in the initial cradles of civilization. It is not that we ate meat "when plants were not available", as this would be about 60% of the year in most places outside the equator....and it is in these places where our population exploded. We lived that way for a very long time in between leaving the equator and civilization coming about, and we survived from hunting and gathering roots for a good part of the year. I haven't seen any research that proves we did otherwise on scale.

          8,9. Agree.

          10. The story is that if we fast, the body ends up eating a little bit of muscle after glycogen runs out. Ok? So what happens if we don't have much protein, but maintain enough glycogen to run off? What is considered a lot? Why? Where are the numbers coming from? Says who? Have they identified a cause affect relationship?

          -- I am a huge fasting advocate. I think the idea that we, as such successful mammals, start to CONSUME our own bodies in massive amounts if we go a day without food is without evolutionary basis. An animal that starts to lose "fitness" in the evolutionary sense if it goes a day without eating is an animal that won't be around for very long. It was likely very common for our ancestors to go days without food, even weeks in a bad season....and food would have been rationed to women and children first, so especially in the case of younger males, fasting and gorging was likely the rule most of the year.

          11. Has anyone ever identified a cause affect relationship where something bad happens if you don't eat meat?

          -- Yes, me.....I was a vegan for over 3 years, prior to going paleo....here is the unvarnished reality:
          As a young male with the calorie requirements I have (and yourself), you have really 2 choices. Number one is that you stick to "real plant food". This means nothing processed, no shakes, no soy industrial trash, etc....If you do this route, as I learned the hard way, you will be a very weak, skinny guy with bad skin and low testosterone....option two is that you do a "hacked version" of vegan, whereupon you use all kinds of industrial food system loopholes to "stay vegan", whilst trying to be ripped up. This means a lot of soy shakes, eating 10 bananas at a sitting to refill glycogen after a workout, eating a lot of Tofurkey. If you do this, your gut will be roadkill, you will have a lot of muscle and also a lot of fat, and again have low T due to the soy intake.

          I have yet to meet a young vegan male that doesn't fit one of those two approaches...if you are 55 and a female, with 1400 cal a day as your requirements, then yes, you can eat lettuce all day and probably feel fine. You will need to supplement with B and iron, but you won't be a tubby pale ball of cookie dough like I was as a vegan years ago

          12. As discussed in PB, our ancestors got A LOT more physical activity in than we do today.

          -- Yes, but it was selective from the research I have seen....the young and capable were likely tasked with doing everything, while those older (we didn't all die at 30) were likely much more lazy....also, this only speaks to the VERY high caloric needs of those in any given tribe that keep it running....see above for what this means.

          As for the protein stuff, I have always considered that to be garbage. I eat a lot of protein, about 200g a day, but I do that because it is healthy and because protein is the preferred macro of the body. I don't think it's necessary to eat that much, but it is available to me in very lean form (rabbit) in abundance.

          I enjoy the discussion as well though. Some of this stuff needs to get debated to help us see the forest a little more than the trees....if I see one more "carbs vs fat" discussion on here I am going to hang myself with dental floss.

          "Carbs are the preferred macro due to the Krebs/Randle/Krusty the Clown cycle.....blah, blah, blah"

          Don't eat for 18 hours, then go deadlift 3x bodyweight, then eat a Ribeye and some fruit, then shut the hell up and do it again tomorrow.

          Done. Diet book written
          "The soul that does not attempt flight; does not notice its chains."

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by TheyCallMeLazarus View Post
            truth and stuff
            thanks for injecting that in to this thread

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by TheyCallMeLazarus View Post
              if I see one more "carbs vs fat" discussion on here I am going to hang myself with dental floss.

              "Carbs are the preferred macro due to the Krebs/Randle/Krusty the Clown cycle.....blah, blah, blah"

              Don't eat for 18 hours, then go deadlift 3x bodyweight, then eat a Ribeye and some fruit, then shut the hell up and do it again tomorrow.

              Done. Diet book written
              Very well put ... you just forgot a few taters in the diet

              Comment


              • #22
                I started eating a lot more protein (210+ g/day) after reading articles from a few powerlifters. I've noticed better performance when lifting, and now it's really difficult to feel sore.
                In matters of style, swim with the current. In matters of principle, stand like a rock.

                This message has been intercepted by the NSA, the only branch of government that listens.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Ahaha.....thanks. I have done the potato hack before. I tend to lose enormous amounts of weight if I do that, and most of my goals are muscle gain. I cannot take in more than about 1200 cal on a potato hack, so it is a 60% below maintenance cut in my case.

                  I tire quickly of all of the esoteric scientific battles on here....everyone that has ever peaked on their fitness will tell you that all of the theory and routines in the world are pointless without compliance and carry-through. Effort and discipline is everything. Science is only step one.
                  "The soul that does not attempt flight; does not notice its chains."

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by TheyCallMeLazarus View Post
                    I cannot take in more than about 1200 cal on a potato hack, so it is a 60% below maintenance cut in my case.
                    As I said in the PD thread, I just started and realized that I need to eat at least 1.5kg or 2kg of taters to avoid severe caloric deficit. I usually eat one meal / day a la warrior diet minus the snacking, sometimes 2 meals. 2kg of boiled potatoes in one meal is not exactly going to happen ...

                    I tire quickly of all of the esoteric scientific battles on here....everyone that has ever peaked on their fitness will tell you that all of the theory and routines in the world are pointless without compliance and carry-through. Effort and discipline is everything. Science is only step one.
                    Well, yeah, I tend to agree here. Science is not even step one I suspect, it is an ever changing background discussion from which one can get inspired at some point but not fully rely on for the long haul.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Anecdotal:
                      I work in a grocery store, and was talking with a customer about the conditions that egg-laying hens are kept in. She was very concerned about it. Then she said, "I'm just doing the best I can. I was vegan for years, until my fingernails fell out, and I learned I can't do it anymore. So I'm trying to be as humane as I can."

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        I did the Vegan thing for 7 years and didn't suffer the problems that many people describe. However towards the end I craved the fat and grease of a plate of spicy chicken and it was all over for Vegan.

                        A great read is The Vegetarian Myth: Food, Justice, and Sustainability. It covers a lot of your issues.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by jfreaksho View Post
                          anecdotal:
                          I work in a grocery store, and was talking with a customer about the conditions that egg-laying hens are kept in. She was very concerned about it. Then she said, "i'm just doing the best i can. I was vegan for years, until my fingernails fell out, and i learned i can't do it anymore. So i'm trying to be as humane as i can."
                          lol!!!!!!!!

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Anyways folks,
                            I must say. I'm not interested in becoming a vegan or vegetarian or anything like that. But I did get curious about the fruit thing.

                            I don't know. I'm just thinking if we didn't have grains before, what would we have eaten? Probably a lot of meat and fruit. Nobody likes vegetables. Vegetables suck.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              @Ripped: Actually, humans started building permanent housing before grains. First there was gardening and after that farming grains. The problem with grains then was that there needed first to be a method of collecting them in large quantities to make them worth anything. Then equipment for processing them, such as grinding stones, for storing them for longer periods without mice and rats and other rodents running away with it all. So the first permanent settlements were likely in areas with mild temperatures where fruit and vegetables could be harvested (almost) all year round.
                              All of which is kind of besides the point, I know.

                              As far as your points about gorillas: I'm very hesitant about drawing parallels between human and gorilla digestive tracts. Not because we're not relatives, but because even closely related animals can have wildly differently specialized diets. In general when observing an animal, it should be taken on it's own terms instead of jumping to conclusions about it's biology and behaviour based on another, similar species. I'm not a biologist or a zoologist, so I don't have first hand information on what the digestive track of a gorilla looks like or how it functions (from doing some googling, most popular links point to highly suspicious sites that talk about ape biology as a basis for eating vegetarian and not as a scientific study on how and why apes function). What I do know, however, is that it's commonly reasoned that the human brain grew because of the abundance of energy/nutritious food available for it and because of the need to use it. So it's not really that evolution weeded out the dumber ones, since the brain's an organ that can be and does develop throughout a person's life time. It's more like there was need for each individual in a group to use their nogging and continuously learn, move (since exercise improves your brain functions) and there was a LOT of food around to facilitate the brain's development. The current anthropological notion is that hunter-gatherers were (and are to some extent) the original affluent society. Just like the current affluence seems to breed taller and in some cases, heavier, people. Remember that this transformation of the brain took thousands of years. So it'll be really interesting to see how our current lifestyle and diet affects the shape our brains will have in another few thousand years.

                              As far as eating meat, not getting enough protein and so on and so forth go... welp, from what I've read (and heard on lectures), and this is largely based on what it currently known about how the human body works, so keep in mind that there is a positive bias with all scientific publication, it's hard not to get enough protein as an average, sedentary person if you eat greens, vegetables, fruit and nuts. In that order. Though if you're looking to experiment, looking into raw veganism might be your thing. There are a lot of vegetarian and vegan athletes, including Frank Medrano here, though I have to say I don't know how much they supplement with pea or soy protein (if at all).
                              Are there downsides to not eating meat? I would argue that it depends on your genetics and/or possibly your location. I have no idea how much plasticity there is in how your body adapts to your current environment and I don't know if there are studies made of that. What I mean is that generally people who live in those mild to humid areas of the world seem to thrive on just plants (there would need to be a comprehensive study on their B12 levels and not just the levels of B12 in western countries) however, people in northern parts of the world would seem to require at least some animal products in their diet. The recommendation is eggs and fish. When I was experimenting with raw veganism, it dried out the top layer of my skin completely (not to mention I felt kind of loopy, but that's a different story...) and apparently that's a common problem with us pale nordics. Adding eggs and meat back changed the situation immediately. I'd love to try out being vegan again if I was to move to a more tropical climate for a few years to see if my body would adapt to those surroundings. Eating fruit as a staple? Dr Lustig does make a very good case on how and why the sugar when eaten in fruit or berry form would be totally cool.
                              My diary comics
                              My fitness inspiration blog

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                I'm very firmly of the opinion that the human brain evolved the way it did because propensities for language and conditional reasoning allowed us to be successful group hunters. And being successful hunters gave us the raw materials necessary to grow larger brains. Plants are fine with me, but eating brains and marrow gave us our start to becoming human, and hunting skills and tools got us as far as we've come. Now we're trying to go backwards, and with pretty good success.
                                The Champagne of Beards

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X