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  • We also have very acidic stomach.

    M.

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    • Interesting thread. I read the whole thing, and have probably already forgotten most of it.

      I've had some similar questions, and have recently been reading some raw vegan sites and forums (one in particular). I've seen some pretty convincing information (from these vegans, of course) about how little protein we need per day. One often-recommended video seminar discussed this, and it was stated that we only need to replace the protein we excrete each day, which for an average male amounts to about 23 grams/day I think. So, even doubling that to "be safe", 40-50 grams/day is more than enough.

      I'm not saying I believe that, but it did make me wonder how much protein we really need. Do I really need the 1g per pound of lean bodyweight the strength training sites say I do? Made me wonder. I certainly think I need more than the 40-50 grams they claim is "more than enough", but do I really need 160 grams or more?

      Their claim is that the body is designed to run on carbs, and that we should all "carb the f*ck up!". One popular diet in that community is the 80/10/10, which is 80% carbs, 10% fat, and 10% protein - which conveniently is roughly the macronutrient profile of many fruits.

      One problem with that is that they also claim that you need more calories than you think, so they recommend 3000-4000 calories per day - of mostly fruit, because leafy greens are low calorie. A quick bit of math shows us that these people are eating dozens of pieces of fruit each day. Banana smoothies with 15-20 bananas are common.

      All that said, I've noticed a few things in that "world".

      Most of the women I've seen that have been successful look pretty good, healthy, fit, hot, etc.

      Most of the men I've seen either look skinny-fat, or have a slight bit of muscle definition. Very few are what I would call "ripped". Also, most of them are pretty skinny.

      So, my thinking is that the very low protein inhibits muscle growth, so they don't have the mass to build muscle that shows. This is fine for women (in my opinion - not a fan of shredded six-pack on a female), but not for men. I know these are just aesthetics, but it seems there must be an underlying issue.

      Almost everyone I have noticed posting their exercise/fitness goals are into distance sports like running and cycling.

      We all have different goals, and to each his/her own, but those are some observations. And again, I've seen a handful of raw vegan bodybuilders who are more muscular, but not many compared to those on other diets. I'm not into bodybuilding, by the way, but if one of our goals is to build/maintain muscle, then I think this is helpful to consider.

      In addition, I've read about several people who are having a hard time with that diet. Gaining weight, skin breakouts, tired, constipated, etc. They ask their questions, and are generally told to just hang in there, trust the diet, and get in more calories. B12 shots are discussed as though the requirement is common knowledge, and there are plenty of stories of bad teeth, balding, etc. as well.

      Obviously, it works for some people. Several there have been on it for years and claim they've never felt or looked better. Good for them. Others were on it for months or years, and realized that they'd never felt worse, were spending more money on food (buying bananas by the case), spending more on supplements, and were unhappy.

      I don't think I could go so far as to become a strict raw vegan. I certainly think meat has merit, and don't plan to give it up. But, similar to the OP, some of the raw vegan material has me wondering how much protein we really need.

      Jason

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      • All I need to do is take a trip to my local food coop. All the vegans are there. They are mostly skinny fat girls and girlish/androgynous young men. A few of the women are obese.
        Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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        • Amino acids can be obtained from fruits,nuts, and vegetables that the body converts into protein. A good clean healthy colon will demand less food and all cravings for unhealthy foods will disappear with that health. The human body is not meant to eat meat, cows, dogs,chickens,squirrels,pigs, or any other living creature.

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          • Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
            All I need to do is take a trip to my local food coop. All the vegans are there. They are mostly skinny fat girls and girlish/androgynous young men. A few of the women are obese.

            Right, real Men eat meat and have girlfriends with ampel cleavage and wide hips. Real men and their fat wives die at 50 to 60 or get disease, then die a miserable death. Its great to be a real man just look at retired football players, basketball players etc, with an average death of 62, those were some real men alright. Ate themselves right into a grave with all that protein. Well darlin at 68 I have seen the friends and relatives go to the happy hunting grounds and have figured out the early death denominators.
            Last edited by pharmageddon; 01-02-2014, 08:34 PM.

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            • Originally posted by pharmageddon View Post
              Amino acids can be obtained from fruits,nuts, and vegetables that the body converts into protein. A good clean healthy colon will demand less food and all cravings for unhealthy foods will disappear with that health. The human body is not meant to eat meat, cows, dogs,chickens,squirrels,pigs, or any other living creature.
              Hunger originates in the colon now? That loss of appetite you're describing is called starvation mode. I subscribe to the theory that we evolved language and these massive brains (conditional reasoning and the ability to communicate) in our evolutionary adaptations as we became better group hunters. You don't need to be that smart to hunt celery. You don't need to track cantaloupes. Why don't you take your new-agey, pseudoscientific, vegan dogma over to 30bananasaday or somewhere that people deprive their brains of essential amino acids and can't see through your weak, unfounded arguments?
              The Champagne of Beards

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              • I rather like pharmagedden's idea that pro football players are dying from too much protein. As if shooting roids or being smashed up in the equivalent of a couple dozen car wrecks was no more harmful than a couple situps on the ball.
                5'0" female, 45 years old. Started Primal October 31, 2011, at a skinny fat 111.5 lbs. Low weight: 99.5 lb on a fast. Gained back to 115(!) on SAD chocolate, potato chips, and stress. Currently 111.

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                • Originally posted by pharmageddon View Post
                  Amino acids can be obtained from fruits,nuts, and vegetables that the body converts into protein. A good clean healthy colon will demand less food and all cravings for unhealthy foods will disappear with that health. The human body is not meant to eat meat, cows, dogs,chickens,squirrels,pigs, or any other living creature.
                  So what do I do when winter comes?

                  M.

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                  • 1) Describe this mechanism you speak of, in which a body magically converts a mango into protein. This should be fun.
                    2) Please consider that most of the special "nuts" you speak of are toxic in their natural forms. Things like almonds are only edible through genetic manipulation to alter the poisons in them. For example, try to eat some acorns and see how that goes....you will discover that these can kill people, horses, and most other animals. Only animals such as deer, squirrels, or bears have the ability to counter-act this.
                    3) Please list the indigenous tribes that were vegetarian.
                    4) Why do we have incisors, and lack the kind of long molar necessary to best eat plant food?

                    This is only an entertainment set of questions.....anyone that believes, sincerely, that a human is meant to live off of fruit, nuts, and veg has not studied our basic anatomy and physiology. That's just a fact.
                    "The soul that does not attempt flight; does not notice its chains."

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                    • Wow, that pharmageddon person is a whack job, huh?

                      By androgynous-looking men I mean skinny fat with moobs. And acne. Obviously not getting the proper anything for proper hormonal development of a young man.

                      At the other health food store I shop at there's a truly androgynous man. I'm actually not quite sure if he is a man. He might be something in the middle. But it is obvious he gets his protein from animals because he's quite healthy and doesn't scoff at you when he rings up your meat.
                      Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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