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  • Anyone eat a lot of raw fruits and veggies?

    I've been browsing over at GreenSmoothieGirl.com, and she seems to make a good case for more raw plant life and less meat/fats. I honestly did horrible on a high fat/meat diet, but I can't wrap my head around eating that much plant matter either. So I've been doing a modified PHD for a little while with not much weightloss or miraculous cures...I honestly feel almost as bad as when I did high fat meat lower carb.

  • #2
    What's "high"? No need to choke down more of anything than you find palatable and digestible. Almost all cuisines use a salad -> meat -> fruit template for meals--there's probably wisdom in doing so.
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    • #3
      I try not to. I love all the wrong things and can eat them by the pound, carrots, radishes, rutabaga, fruit.... About the only correct vegetable that I can eat a lot of in the raw is cabbage. So, if I want to go low-carbier on my veg, I have to go soupish or stewish. Then I can do the low carb veggies, even celery and green bell peppers that I don't like as nature intended. In the end of the day, in the absence of miracles, I am back to cutting out fruit and contemplating the abandonment of nuts too. Meat, greens and 5HTP.
      My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
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      • #4
        Originally posted by Goldensparrow View Post
        I've been browsing over at GreenSmoothieGirl.com, and she seems to make a good case for more raw plant life and less meat/fats. I honestly did horrible on a high fat/meat diet, but I can't wrap my head around eating that much plant matter either. So I've been doing a modified PHD for a little while with not much weightloss or miraculous cures...I honestly feel almost as bad as when I did high fat meat lower carb.
        I've had a very similar experience. I started with Atkins and a more ketogenic based diet in the hope of controlling my cravings and finally experience the energy boost every one had been raving about (in reality I was restricting calories, getting into vicious binging cycles, trying to compensate with overexercising and still gaining weight). I felt awful, lifeless and drained.

        I did the classic Atkins induction phase and by the end of my first week my left arm got numb and it wouldn't function (I later realised this was an electrolyte imbalance or depletion despite following all the suggestions, drink more water, add salt to foods etc.). It stressed me out so much and I became a wreck, yet I would not blame the diet. I was clinging onto this hope that Atkins was the absolute miracle and fat IS the preferred source of fuel. Basically low-carb dogma repeated in every forum, every post and EVERY book. My life turned into hell, but the anorexic in me wanted to stay faithful to the program in the hopes of low carb turning into my life miracle.

        After my arm scare, I decided to up the carbs. I switched to Primal/Paleo to get more nutrients in my diet from vegetables, fruits and some starches etc. Still felt awful. Was getting bouts of reactive hypoglycemia. Brain fog. No motivation. Moved to PHD, tried a higher carb version of PHD and nope, my physical health just declined.

        I ditched carb restricting diets altogether. I now eat a very high carb/Ray Peat/Fruitarian inspired diet (low-fat). Trust me I eat more calories in the form of rice, potatoes, fruits and juice than I ever did on Primal and I'm 5 lbs leaner (with consistent, excellent blood test results). I also have high-fat, low carb days to avoid cravings etc and to ensure I get enough nutrients, but my energy is through the roof and I can finally enjoy life again.

        Restricting carbohydrates (especially with individuals who have very efficient glucose metabolisms, i.e. me or any one else struggling with low-carb) is not always optimal, and can downregulate thyroid function, accelerate adrenal fatigue etc. Do not follow the raw Vegan zealots (especially the likes of Freelee or Durianrider on Youtube) who also have the same dogmatic approach.

        Experiment. Primal is not the essence of life.

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        • #5
          I think I remember reading on Denise Minger's blog that she eats lots of raw fruit and vegetables:
          About | Raw Food SOS

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Leida View Post
            I love all the wrong things and can eat them by the pound, carrots, radishes, rutabaga, fruit.... About the only correct vegetable that I can eat a lot of in the raw is cabbage.
            Excuse me, but what do you mean by "all the wrong things"? Carrots are "wrong" and cabbage is "correct"? Eating tons of raw cabbage is certainly correct if you want to damage your thyroid, as it's a goitrogen :/
            Salube Up! - SalubriousU

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            • #7
              Originally posted by picklepete View Post
              What's "high"? No need to choke down more of anything than you find palatable and digestible.
              This.
              Salube Up! - SalubriousU

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              • #8
                Raw vegans like to think that all the good enzymes are denatured when you cook veggies. Most of those "enzymes" are likely natural pesticides .. Why would a plant want to help its predator survive? That makes no sense.

                Fruits on the other hand... I doubt there is any sort of magical enzymes but at least they are intended to be eaten by animals so the plant can propagate the seeds and expand to far away places. Same with fruit-like veggies.

                Honestly I wouldn't eat veggies for the nutrition but more for the taste. I eat fruits for the carbs to fuel workouts. Otherwise I try not to overthink it too much (coming from a biochem background... It is too easy to overanalyze food. Just eat it. If it feels good, keep it. If it doesn't, cut if out. )








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                HCLF: lean red meat, eggs, low-fat dairy, bone broth/gelatin, fruits, seafood, liver, small amount of starch (oatmeal, white rice, potatoes, carrots), small amount of saturated fat (butter/ghee/coconut/dark chocolate/cheese).

                My Journal: gelatin experiments, vanity pictures, law school rants, recipe links


                Food blog: GELATIN and BONE BROTH recipes

                " The best things in life are free and the 2nd best are expensive!" - Coco Chanel

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                • #9
                  There are no "miraculous" cures when it comes to lifestyle modification. It inherently takes months to YEARS to see the results. It took decades to become dysfunctional after all. Food is only one part of the puzzle. Sleep, movement, exercise, alignment, mental attitude, EMF, light, sun, water..... ect. .... do your best to at least pay some sort of mind to each and every aspect of health as you can.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
                    There are no "miraculous" cures when it comes to lifestyle modification. It inherently takes months to YEARS to see the results. It took decades to become dysfunctional after all. Food is only one part of the puzzle. Sleep, movement, exercise, alignment, mental attitude, EMF, light, sun, water..... ect. .... do your best to at least pay some sort of mind to each and every aspect of health as you can.
                    What makes you assume the OP was unhealthy or "dysfunctional" prior to Primal or low-carb? Should they waste "months to years" striving for optimal health or should they be open to the idea of experimentation?

                    It does not sound like Primal will help the OP progress (evidently it has not contributed to a sense of clarity or even good overall mental and physical health), probably just promote a health decline over time.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Mikee5 View Post
                      What makes you assume the OP was unhealthy or "dysfunctional" prior to Primal or low-carb? Should they waste "months to years" striving for optimal health or should they be open to the idea of experimentation?

                      It does not sound like Primal will help the OP progress (evidently it has not contributed to a sense of clarity or even good overall mental and physical health), probably just promote a health decline over time.
                      So one at a time since you ask...

                      "What makes you assume the OP was unhealthy or "dysfunctional" prior to Primal or low-carb? "

                      Cause anyone who is healthy should have the capacity to function well on low carb Primal and/or PHD, and the OP states they can not on either of these. In addition the OP states they are "overweight" which BTW does not equate to unhealthy, but is correlated with certain morbidities.

                      "Should they waste "months to years" striving for optimal health or should they be open to the idea of experimentation?"

                      Months is a minimum before re-assessing for progress....years is more in terms of seeing long term result and continued progress.

                      Actually if this is a struggle where the OP can't seem to reach a satisfactory health status with "primal foods" as their only source of sustenance then it is likely time for some in depth functional medicine type of testing. Basically I would recommend 3-6 months of eating primal with journaling, BF% by calipers, and weight as the very least of measurements.... blood glucose, lipids, CMP, and some others might be nice as well though. If after those 3 to 6 months you're not seeing sufficient result then you need get several special labs run cause you just might be that special snow flake that requires some extra attention. Very small percentage in that special snowflake category though.

                      "It does not sound like Primal will help the OP progress (evidently it has not contributed to a sense of clarity or even good overall mental and physical health), probably just promote a health decline over time."

                      You have little to no info about the OP (same as all of us), so you have no basis for this assertion except that they didn't feel well for some period on a HFLC or the more moderate carb via starch PHD diet. There are several avenues they can explore from here that still falls in the Primal paradigm. Basically I think your FOS.
                      Last edited by Neckhammer; 10-25-2013, 06:12 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Anyone eat a lot of raw fruits and veggies?

                        Honestly... I think OP is looking for a quick fix, not a lifestyle change. I lost 25lbs and went from an American pant size 8-10 to 4(-6) gradually over 4-5 years so it was almost painless. No blazing success story for mda front page but I don't mind slow changes. At first from CW healthy (tons of chicken breast, spinach salads with honey mustard, 1 slice of whole wheat bread with pb as my "treat" at the college cafeteria, tons of cardio) to CW low carb (1/2 cup brown rice + 1 slice bread at most a day) to primal (start of law school) to now adding carbs back in to fuel strength workouts. Today I barely resemble the girl who used to eat half an Oreo ice cream cake in one sitting (well...same big appetite just mostly for BBQ/steak/etc).

                        OP just needs to be a bit hungry and stick with one diet (maybe track calories) to see success. Also if "primal" for OP is tons of primal baked goods, handfuls of nuts, tons of bulletproof coffee and a breakfast, tons of bacon and cheese I can see how that wouldn't help OP lose weight.









                        Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free
                        ------
                        HCLF: lean red meat, eggs, low-fat dairy, bone broth/gelatin, fruits, seafood, liver, small amount of starch (oatmeal, white rice, potatoes, carrots), small amount of saturated fat (butter/ghee/coconut/dark chocolate/cheese).

                        My Journal: gelatin experiments, vanity pictures, law school rants, recipe links


                        Food blog: GELATIN and BONE BROTH recipes

                        " The best things in life are free and the 2nd best are expensive!" - Coco Chanel

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Try a menu that resembles your most recent ancestors. I feel awesome (and look good, IMO) eating like medieval white people and native americans. Doesn't mean you will.
                          Crohn's, doing SCD

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Mikee5 View Post
                            I've had a very similar experience. I started with Atkins and a more ketogenic based diet in the hope of controlling my cravings and finally experience the energy boost every one had been raving about (in reality I was restricting calories, getting into vicious binging cycles, trying to compensate with overexercising and still gaining weight). I felt awful, lifeless and drained.

                            I did the classic Atkins induction phase and by the end of my first week my left arm got numb and it wouldn't function (I later realised this was an electrolyte imbalance or depletion despite following all the suggestions, drink more water, add salt to foods etc.). It stressed me out so much and I became a wreck, yet I would not blame the diet. I was clinging onto this hope that Atkins was the absolute miracle and fat IS the preferred source of fuel. Basically low-carb dogma repeated in every forum, every post and EVERY book. My life turned into hell, but the anorexic in me wanted to stay faithful to the program in the hopes of low carb turning into my life miracle.

                            After my arm scare, I decided to up the carbs. I switched to Primal/Paleo to get more nutrients in my diet from vegetables, fruits and some starches etc. Still felt awful. Was getting bouts of reactive hypoglycemia. Brain fog. No motivation. Moved to PHD, tried a higher carb version of PHD and nope, my physical health just declined.

                            I ditched carb restricting diets altogether. I now eat a very high carb/Ray Peat/Fruitarian inspired diet (low-fat). Trust me I eat more calories in the form of rice, potatoes, fruits and juice than I ever did on Primal and I'm 5 lbs leaner (with consistent, excellent blood test results). I also have high-fat, low carb days to avoid cravings etc and to ensure I get enough nutrients, but my energy is through the roof and I can finally enjoy life again.

                            Restricting carbohydrates (especially with individuals who have very efficient glucose metabolisms, i.e. me or any one else struggling with low-carb) is not always optimal, and can downregulate thyroid function, accelerate adrenal fatigue etc. Do not follow the raw Vegan zealots (especially the likes of Freelee or Durianrider on Youtube) who also have the same dogmatic approach.

                            Experiment. Primal is not the essence of life.
                            What Mikee5 said. Different people respond differently as our personal biochemistry, our genetics and our environment are different. I've been a raw vegan and a vegetarian and had a stint with Atkins. I couldn't say I was happy with any of those (nor did I lose weight the way I was "supposed" to). Trying out what ratio and which foods make you feel good and function the best sounds like a really sensible thing to do, since the idea is not to find what works for now or what you can stick with for the next 2-6 months, but a way of eating that makes you healthy from the inside out and that you can be happy with for the rest of your life.

                            Unless you're a weigthlifter, in which case your life is going to be a cycle of bulking up and cutting.
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                            • #15
                              BTW to OP yes I have tried veganism with a ton of fruit and vegetables. I lost weight, but much of it was lean mass as all of my lifts started tanking. On the other hand I only gave it three months and ditched it since I felt so bad. In retrospect I probably should have been eating more calories and supplementing gelatin, which I was not. However, I have no reason to go back to such an existence where meat is not the center of the meal. Makes no sense to me now.

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