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Glucose burning, fat storing animals.

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
    How is that logical when glucose is the fuel utilized first, whereas fat would be the backup tank? If I'm just using the layman terms in this topic.

    Most of us here have enough money not to go through periods of starvation.
    Well if we are just going logic and layman terms on it without any other input I might counter that glucose is toxic at too high a quantity with limited capacity for storage (the previously mentioned glycogen threshhold), so the body would have to burn it for energy to prevent reaching that toxic load, whereas fat can be stored almost indefinitely without ill effect..... OK not indefinitely, but at least close to that in terms of eating a whole food diet.

    The periods of starvation thing is sort of interesting to me though in terms of what our bodies...not our conscious mind, but our bodies decide to provide us for energy and in what quantities when we are not ingesting things from our environment.
    Last edited by Neckhammer; 10-25-2013, 06:46 PM.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Sweet Leilani View Post
      I was just asking these questions because we store fat. That is the our natural storage of energy. So wouldn't that also mean that is our body's natural fuel of choice? Seems logical.
      It doesen't seem logical at all, since the body store and burn both fat and glucose for different purposes...
      "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

      - Schopenhauer

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
        Well if we are just going logic and layman terms on it without any other input I might counter that glucose is toxic at too high a quantity with limited capacity for storage (the previously mentioned glycogen threshhold), so the body would have to burn it for energy to prevent reaching that toxic load, whereas fat can be stored almost indefinitely without ill effect..... OK not indefinitely, but at least close to that in terms of eating a whole food diet.
        Forgetting turnover rates and lipotoxicity?
        Make America Great Again

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
          Yeah, but don't go confusing people with logic. We indeed store only about 2,000 calories as glycogen and TENS of thousands as fat. Seems like our body has a triage worked out for the health and survival of our organism. Or a the very least a ratio that it supposes would be optimal should it have to eat itself (i.e. upon fasting or lack of food source).
          Due to being prone to fat storage, that suggests to me that too much dietary fat can be detrimental as the body is obviously more than willing to stash it away if you give it more than it can use. Conversely, de novo lipogenesis is very inefficient. The body goes to great lengths to utilize carbs immediately or put in temporary "holding cells" before converting them to fat.
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          • #20
            Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
            Forgetting turnover rates and lipotoxicity?
            We're gonna leave the realm of layman talk and simple logic quickly aren't we?

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
              We're gonna leave the realm of layman talk and simple logic quickly aren't we?
              Yeah, my bad. You can carry on the conversation with j3nn.
              Make America Great Again

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              • #22
                Originally posted by j3nn View Post
                Due to being prone to fat storage, that suggests to me that too much dietary fat can be detrimental as the body is obviously more than willing to stash it away if you give it more than it can use. Conversely, de novo lipogenesis is very inefficient. The body goes to great lengths to utilize carbs immediately or put in temporary "holding cells" before converting them to fat.
                See, while I understand your what you are saying, I can't agree. Rapid and easy storage to me indicates little to no collateral damage due to energy conversion. The more processes something undergoes in the body to become something else the more oxidative stress tends to occur. We are not 100% efficient in our conversions and production of energy.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
                  Yeah, my bad. You can carry on the conversation with j3nn.
                  lol.... I appreciate your technical jargon much of the time. Really a good deal of it is just enough over my head to make me go read up and learn some more. Kinda like reading Hyperlipid, but from the carb angle

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
                    See, while I understand your what you are saying, I can't agree. Rapid and easy storage to me indicates little to no collateral damage due to energy conversion. The more processes something undergoes in the body to become something else the more oxidative stress tends to occur. We are not 100% efficient in our conversions and production of energy.
                    Ah, but excess PUFAs cause great oxidative stress, so we also have to differentiate between types of fats. But if you believe extra metabolic processes to be stressful, you'd have to include gluconeogenesis. Our body prefers dietary sources of glucose, but will go through the stress of obtaining it otherwise. Gluconeogenesis is more likely to occur than de novo lipogenesis. That tells me the body wants glucose as its preferred fuel.
                    Last edited by j3nn; 10-25-2013, 07:25 PM.
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                    “It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.” - Samuel Adams

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                    • #25
                      Glucose burning, fat storing animals.

                      Originally posted by Sweet Leilani View Post
                      I was just asking these questions because we store fat. That is the our natural storage of energy. So wouldn't that also mean that is our body's natural fuel of choice? Seems logical.
                      Fat is the energy storage unit of choice because A. It is much more calorically dense per unit (9 cals instead of 4); B. It doesn't require water molecules to solvate it in the body like glucose/glycogen does. In other words, we will have to be a lot bigger to store the same amt of energy in the form of carbs.

                      Glucose is the energy used of choice before we even were animals vs fungi vs plants. Maybe even before it was multicellular vs unicellular organisms. The fat storage adaptation I believe (someone correct me if I am wrong) evolved in animals. Hence why sugars are involved in so many more of the hormonal signals. Most scientists now agree that ATP was pretty much there in the beginning of life (eventually followed with G, T, and CTP) and that sugars were also present pretty early on in abundance. Linking them together (sunlight + co2 +h2o --> sugars , then sugars combusted to generate energy to make ATP) probably came way early in evolution.

                      Most of nature doesn't "make sense" bc it isn't the most efficient way of doing things. It was natural selection acting upon mutations that happened to be around at the time. Natural selection isn't very forward-looking. If nature "made sense" then dolphins wouldn't have fingers in their skeletal structure and we would have the same efficient oxygen transfer system as the birds do.

                      Of course this falls apart if someone doesn't believe in evolution from microbes... But you know.

                      Eta: now I am thinking of nuts/avocados so I guess plants store fat for future use in their seeds but use starch the energy storage for rest of the plant. Hmmm.
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                      Last edited by turquoisepassion; 10-25-2013, 11:56 PM.
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                      • #26
                        Nobody noticed wood grubs? Srsly?
                        Crohn's, doing SCD

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                        • #27
                          Glucose burning, fat storing animals.

                          Originally posted by Knifegill View Post
                          Nobody noticed wood grubs? Srsly?
                          What about them? If they indeed store fat but eat carbs and preferentially burn carbs ...isn't that like human beings?

                          I am confused by op's question because almost all animals preferentially burn carbs rather than fat. Fat is used when carbs are gone.

                          ???


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                          HCLF: lean red meat, eggs, low-fat dairy, bone broth/gelatin, fruits, seafood, liver, small amount of starch (oatmeal, white rice, potatoes, carrots), small amount of saturated fat (butter/ghee/coconut/dark chocolate/cheese).

                          My Journal: gelatin experiments, vanity pictures, law school rants, recipe links


                          Food blog: GELATIN and BONE BROTH recipes

                          " The best things in life are free and the 2nd best are expensive!" - Coco Chanel

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                          • #28
                            Glucose isn't toxic unless it is in the sense that too much water is toxic.

                            Body doesn't store energy in that format bc we are going to be 4-5x bigger if we did store energy as carbs. See above explaination of carbs requiring water solvation & being less energy dense.


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                            HCLF: lean red meat, eggs, low-fat dairy, bone broth/gelatin, fruits, seafood, liver, small amount of starch (oatmeal, white rice, potatoes, carrots), small amount of saturated fat (butter/ghee/coconut/dark chocolate/cheese).

                            My Journal: gelatin experiments, vanity pictures, law school rants, recipe links


                            Food blog: GELATIN and BONE BROTH recipes

                            " The best things in life are free and the 2nd best are expensive!" - Coco Chanel

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                            • #29
                              That which prefers glucose (Brain, red blood cells) feed glucose. 20% ish of calories. That which requires fat (muscles) feed on fat. If you need to give your muscles some extra encouragement to do something energetic like running, lifting give them a bit of lighter fluid in the form of glucose if you are going hiking or gardening then don't worry. I see my glycogen as as being analagous to the battery on my car, quick easy clean energy. My bodyfat is the fuel tank. if the batteries low-charge it up. I don't worry about the fuel tank as there's always some there.
                              For US readers fuel tank=gas tank.
                              Man seeks to change the foods available in nature to suit his tastes, thereby putting an end to the very essence of life contained in them.
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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
                                How is that logical when glucose is the fuel utilized first, whereas fat would be the backup tank? If I'm just using the layman terms in this topic.

                                Most of us here have enough money not to go through periods of starvation.
                                Why would glucose being utilised first mean that it's the preferred fuel? By that logic shouldn't alcohol be our preferred fuel? From what i understand alcohol is dealt with before anything else because the body see alcohol as being toxic to the body. So maybe glucose is utilised first because too much of it is not good for the body?

                                And why would being able to access fat on the body equate to starvation? Why would we have a massive storage pool of energy but not be able to utilise it without the body going into crisis mode?

                                And thank you thank you thank you for not responding in a technical way
                                I don't believe there is one correct way of eating for everybody, and I don't believe there is one correct way of eating for a person through every stage of their life

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