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Fasting? Mark's idea v reality

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  • #16
    Originally posted by ryanmercer View Post
    Because people go "oh man, well I slept for 8 hours, then I didn't eat for 4 hours, oh man I fast 12 hours!!!!" yeah and then you had 3 meals during the other 12 hours. People get into the mode of thinking "well, I stopped eating at 6pm, then slept till 8am I'm good to eat, it's been 14 hours!" Go read what I said "I, and many many others, do not consider the bulk of your 'fasting' hours being during sleep to be considered fasting." I didn't say "nah don't count hours you are asleep"
    Oh, I get what you're saying, and definitely dude.

    Another thing I'd add is some people think that when they finally do eat, they're okay getting like 3500 calories (when they're body only burns 2200) and wonder why they're gaining weight.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Black Timber View Post
      Not to be too picky, but... What random number of fasted sleeping hours do you consider to be fasting?
      Let me try this one more time.

      If your sleeping hours are greater than 50% of your fasting hours. I don't consider it fasting hours. I consider that sleeping so being unable to shove your mouth hole full of food.
      -Ryan Mercer my blog and Genco Peptides my small biz

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      • #18
        I like talking in terms of windows more anyway....."I eat in a 4,6,8 hour window" is much more informative.

        Ex: On workout days, I eat in an 6 hour window, usually one big meal, then veg and meat/shake for the second smaller one.
        On rest days, it is a 3-4 hour window, usually one big meal followed by a very low cal one in early evening.

        Hitting macros is much more valuable than simple IF time. Fasting is just a means to that end, with some added benefits.
        "The soul that does not attempt flight; does not notice its chains."

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        • #19
          You can benefit from longer fasts. But I would also argue that it surely depends on how lean you are. If you're too lean you can't do it for as long. However, being that lean is rather rare.

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          • #20
            Breakfast -> break fast
            Make America Great Again

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            • #21
              I may be reading this incorrectly, but ryanmercer seems to think fasting doesn't count if you're not suffering or at the very least, putting out some effort. So the ease of fasting in one's sleep doesn't count. However for health benefits, I'm guessing sleep as a part of fasting hours counts. People in comas lose weight. People who do multi-day fasts don't say, "I fasted for 10 days, but since I slept for a third of that, it only counts as six and two-thirds days."

              And yes, we break our fast with breakfast, whether that's first thing after sleep, or later in the afternoon.

              fast2
              fast/
              verb
              gerund or present participle: fasting

              1.
              abstain from all or some kinds of food or drink, esp. as a religious observance.
              synonyms: eat nothing, abstain from food, refrain from eating, go without food, go hungry, starve oneself;
              I'm scratching my brain (IOW no links), but basically, fasting promotes something called autophagy which is a kind of house cleaning at the cellular level. If a person grazes for many years, they never give the body a chance to do this and it is hypothesized that that can cause disease.

              Past that, either someone like Laz or a google search of the benefits of fasting, and how long the period of time for it to be beneficial would probably help you. Also, there appear to be some benefits to 5:2 fasting - five days of eating "normally," and two days of eating 400-500 calories per day. There's a BBC Horizon documentary with more specifics.

              For some folks, IF is a way to put the tiger in the closet - eat once a day, don't think about food too much. For others, it's an occasional thing.

              Not sure if any of that helped.
              "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

              B*tch-lite

              Who says back fat is a bad thing? Maybe on a hairy guy at the beach, but not on a crab.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Ripped View Post
                You can benefit from longer fasts. But I would also argue that it surely depends on how lean you are. If you're too lean you can't do it for as long. However, being that lean is rather rare.
                I realize the math is never as straightforward on paper as it actually works out in your body, but assume someone's TDEE (total daily energy expenditure) is lets say 2,500 calories. 1 Lb of body fat is roughly 3,500 calories. This means that a 24 hour fast would only utilize .71 lbs of body fat (again, this is assuming the ideal condition where you are RQ =.70 100% of the time burning entirely fat instead of a combo of fat/carbs from glycogen stores which is much more realistic).

                "Lean" is a fairly general term, but I think it would be agreeable that a male with 10% BF would be considered "lean", so I will use that. Let's say said male is 6', 185lbs, 10% BF. This means that 10% or 185lb *0.10 = 18.5lbs of their weight is body fat. at .71 lbs of fat/day, that would be 26 days worth of 2,500 cal burn/day (again, ideal scenario only burning fat). Of course this would mean 0% bodyfat which is impossible; but even if they were to "fast" down to 5%, that would be 1/2 that or 13 days.

                Until you are pretty low (in the unhealthly range, such as less than 5%) of body fat %, then multiple days fasts are practical and possible.

                ...Especially when approached intelligently and in a healthy manner.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Ripped View Post
                  You can benefit from longer fasts. But I would also argue that it surely depends on how lean you are. If you're too lean you can't do it for as long. However, being that lean is rather rare.
                  I'm not very fat but like almost all I do have some pounds to loose...
                  I was more intrigued by Mark's comment that fasting can kick-start tissue healing. I wonder is a 16-18 hour fast is enough for that and how this would work.
                  My story, My thought....

                  It's all about trying to stay healthy!!!!

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by JoanieL View Post
                    I may be reading this incorrectly, but ryanmercer seems to think fasting doesn't count if you're not suffering or at the very least, putting out some effort. So the ease of fasting in one's sleep doesn't count. However for health benefits, I'm guessing sleep as a part of fasting hours counts. People in comas lose weight. People who do multi-day fasts don't say, "I fasted for 10 days, but since I slept for a third of that, it only counts as six and two-thirds days."

                    What I'm saying is someone says "yeah I shoved my face full of the foods at 9:59 and went to bed at 10, I woke up at 6 so man I fasted a whole 8 hours lets shovel my fat face full of more foods!"
                    -Ryan Mercer my blog and Genco Peptides my small biz

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by ryanmercer View Post
                      What I'm saying is someone says "yeah I shoved my face full of the foods at 9:59 and went to bed at 10, I woke up at 6 so man I fasted a whole 8 hours lets shovel my fat face full of more foods!"
                      Goodness. You don't seem to hold others in much regard. Firstly, you seem to assume you are speaking to people who are grossly overweight and ill informed. But mostly I take exception to the "shovel my fat face" comment as it is derogatory to people struggling (possibly more than you know) to lose weight.
                      Starting Weight: 197.5
                      Current Weight: 123
                      Far healthier!

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                      • #26
                        Way to be offended. Do you like that? Going on the internet and finding ways to be offended? He was speaking hypothetically, to the extreme, about people who may or may not even exist, to control for variables. He doesn't even know you in real life. How can you even pretend this offends you?
                        Crohn's, doing SCD

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by janie View Post
                          Goodness. You don't seem to hold others in much regard. Firstly, you seem to assume you are speaking to people who are grossly overweight and ill informed. But mostly I take exception to the "shovel my fat face" comment as it is derogatory to people struggling (possibly more than you know) to lose weight.
                          Not at all, but the internet is rife with people going "Well I stopped eating just before bed, went to sleep, woke up and did 30 minutes of cardio so I fasted for 9 hours then I had a breakfast with this and that" that's not fasting. That's sleeping. Are you in a fasted state? Yes for 3-5 hours of that depending on gastric motility and what you actually ate, but that's not fasting, not worthwhile fasting anyway. ADF or IF is fasting. Not eating while you are asleep is sleeping (and yes, some bodybuilders set alarms to wake themselves up throughout the night to eat and go back to sleep due to faulty wisdom, or they'll load their gut full of pectin and casein to be digesting food the bulk of their sleep, so I mean it could be worse but doesn't make 'fasting' while you sleep a worthwhile pursuit if it's the vast majority of your fasting hours, you should stop eating well before bed so the bulk of that time asleep is in a fasted state for hormone production and other routine functions).


                          And if it's seen as derogatory, then I have all the right... I'm no skin and bones myself, I've got a good 60-70lbs of excess bodyfat. I meant no ill will however. Just saying, I get tired of people on the internet going "oh man I fasted for a whole 8 hours" "were you asleep the whole time?" "yeah but..."


                          Originally posted by Knifegill View Post
                          Way to be offended. Do you like that? Going on the internet and finding ways to be offended? He was speaking hypothetically, to the extreme, about people who may or may not even exist, to control for variables. He doesn't even know you in real life. How can you even pretend this offends you?
                          Indeed
                          Last edited by ryanmercer; 10-25-2013, 06:35 AM.
                          -Ryan Mercer my blog and Genco Peptides my small biz

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                          • #28
                            Honestly, I will be happy to not eat with or without counting sleeping for 14 hrs straight, and not call it anything, not being proud of it or flaunting it, but it never works for me. I am planning to switch my working hours, fingers crossed that it helps (as well as starting to drink coffee again), but overall, I find that I can't easily eat dinner early (or skip it) and I am also one of the suckers that are hungry first thing (I get up around 4 am), so by the time I get to work at 6 am, I gotta eat or I am useless.

                            I believe it is beneficial to have a digestive break for 14-18 hours a day, but I just can't achieve it without endangering my performance at work (see how I am typing this post now instead of working, and that's after having some cheese with coffee!).

                            I may be reading this incorrectly, but ryanmercer seems to think fasting doesn't count if you're not suffering or at the very least, putting out some effort. So the ease of fasting in one's sleep doesn't count.
                            This is akin to the Medieval attitude when fasting was a penance for sins. Just sayin'.
                            Last edited by Leida; 10-25-2013, 07:01 AM.
                            My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
                            When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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                            • #29
                              Sorry you are offended, Knife. I'll be clear. I spent the vast majority of my adult life trying to get slim. I followed the recommendations of my physician. I tried all the "this is the one what will work" diets in magazines. All these plans left me ravenously hungry nearly all the time and never lost much weight. I would periodically give in to the lure of wheat and sugar and quickly gain back the little I lost. My doctor had seriously warned against low carb, but finally, in my 60's, I rebelliously tried Atkins, and got down to a healthy weight.

                              I think that humans have an assortment of body types and metabolic issues. There isn't one thing that works for everyone. Many overweight people are struggling, as I did, looking for ways to get to a healthy weight, and likely are trying to find their own magic bullet. I doubt that they wake up in the morning saying "yeah I shoved my face full of the foods at 9:59 and went to bed at 10, I woke up at 6 so man I fasted a whole 8 hours lets shovel my fat face full of more foods!" My point was simply that such a statement is derogatory and seemingly without compassion for the very real struggles that the overweight go through.

                              I do see a good deal of put downs of others on this board. I think people do it to shore themselves up at others expense. Maybe I'm too old, too softhearted or maybe I should just stop reading here.
                              Starting Weight: 197.5
                              Current Weight: 123
                              Far healthier!

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                              • #30
                                Sorry you are offended, Knife.
                                It's nothing personal. Just words.


                                I know how you feel, though, to be fair. I was very overweight, well into the obese range, eating all the CW food. I was shaped like a female, possibly from the hormone disruption, and partly from my thunder thighs. Fat jokes used to make me mad, or when people would look at me because I just kept EATING. But I've grown so much since then. I know I'm just one monkey, I'm disposeable, so I don't take any insults personally. So, sorry if I seem insensitive. I'm really just molecules!
                                Crohn's, doing SCD

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