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Evidence that Taubes and Lustig are both wrong!!!

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  • #61
    Chocotaco the reward pathways in the brain override satiety when they are triggered. That's why there's always room for cake after dinner!

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
      What does lauric acid have to do with anything? High rates of fatty acid oxidation, mostly in the liver, produces large amounts of acetyl-CoA which results in the synthesis of ketone bodies. The synthesis of the ketone bodies occurs in the mitochondria which is coupled to rate of hepatic fatty acid oxidation. Ketone bodies are acetoacetate, hydroxybutyrate, and acetone. Formation of acetoacetyl-CoA occurs by condensation of 2 moles of acetyl-CoA. Acetoacetyl-CoA and an additional acetyl-CoA are converted to hydroxy-methylglutaryl-CoA by mitochondrial HMG-CoA synthesis an enzyme found in large amounts only in the liver. So, no, seems to have nothing to do with it on its own.

      I did a quick reference to see what you're talking about and found nothing, only that lauric acid is in abundance for the supposed anti-bacterial aspect and "Lauric acid is often included in lists of coconut oil MCFA but the ketone generating potential of lauric acid is minimal."
      Thanks to the incredible mistake that is "The Primal Blueprint Carbohydrate Curve," MDA has been brainwashed to believe that ketone production is healthy, encourages weight loss and sharpens brain function while being a "sugar burner" i.e. oxidizing glucose is unhealthy, promotes obesity and causes disease. Of course, the exact opposite is true - glucose is the preferrential fuel of your brain and muscles, promotes the most robust, youthful metabolism and ketones are simply an evolutionarily fundamental, "bottom-rung" energy source that would be used in times of extreme starvation to help slow our body from devouring lean tissue and converting it into glucose to fuel the brain. Ketosis is, simply put, a "starvation metabolism" that the body does not want to be in, as evident by the high levels of cortisol needed to sustain it and break down muscle into glucose (i.e. gluconeogenesis). When you're in ketosis, what's the body temperature drop usually seen? 1.5 degrees F? I bet that's pretty typical, and indicative of the detrimental effects sustained ketosis has on your metabolism.

      When you start with a faulty premise, you reach even worse conclusions.
      Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 10-21-2013, 08:19 AM.
      Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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      • #63
        I believe, for example, that fasting is perhaps one of the most healthy things a person can do. I have done a lot of research, and I employ it myself....a lot of the benefits come from the fact that certain things that ride along with deprivation, such as autophagy and fat utilization, are beneficial if done in moderation. In other words, we are not designed to have silver platters of ripe fruit and fatty meat cuts on our plates everyday, even though our bodies would prefer this for survival reasons, anymore than a lion is designed to no longer hunt and have fresh zebra ordered up for it.

        In other words, deprivation is not always bad. Sometimes it is required to truly give optimal function.
        Do you believe that is true for both men and women? Not trying to be argumentative, I'm genuinely curious. I tried fasting and it didn't make me feel that great. It felt like I was doing more damage than good.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Zanna View Post
          Do you believe that is true for both men and women? Not trying to be argumentative, I'm genuinely curious. I tried fasting and it didn't make me feel that great. It felt like I was doing more damage than good.
          I think it is equally beneficial for men and women. I think women tend to take in a far larger calorie deficit than men as a percentage of their TDEE, so that's the problem. The average maintenance calorie level for a woman is ~1,600 calories for a "healthy weight", and an average man is ~2,500 calories. Women tend to "diet" by cutting calories to the ~1,200 kcal level. That is a 25% reduction. Men, on the other hand, dropping 400 kcal only winds up being a 16% drop for the same "weight loss" in terms of pounds lost. Women try to lose weight at the same rate as men, but in order for them to do so, it is a much more significant calorie reduction in terms of percentage of daily needs. Women need to accept that healthy weight loss should be roughly HALF the speed of a man's weight loss because they have a far smaller TDEE to tap into. That is why I believe women see more trouble than men with fasting. They cut too hard and it hurts them more.
          Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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          • #65
            Interesting - so what is a healthy way for women to fast? So is the problem that many are already eating at a deficit to try and diet (~1200) instead of 1600 cal, so moving to a fast from that point is more taxing? I don't ever expect to lose weight as fast as a man but I also have no expectations or desire to try and get to the same state of leanness that men can get to. I don't think women are meant to look like that - hard to be fertile if you are fasting down to a low BF, one that is significantly lower than your natural state.

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            • #66
              Why fast, honestly? You fast enough during sleep. I accidentally fast frequently, and it doesn't make me feel very good when I become aware of it.

              I don't see where there is any benefit beyond some pseudo-science. Calorie restriction and longevity are mostly about limited PUFA anyway.
              Make America Great Again

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
                Why fast, honestly? You fast enough during sleep. I accidentally fast frequently, and it doesn't make me feel very good when I become aware of it.

                I don't see where there is any benefit beyond some pseudo-science. Calorie restriction and longevity are mostly about limited PUFA anyway.

                Well, I don't try and do that anymore, unless I'm stuck in a place with food I don't want to eat. That's why I'm curious - I had read information from women who noted very different results than the positive things I was reading here. Basically, I didn't feel that good so stopped. My normal diet of eggs, fruit, seafood, gelatin and bone broth keeps me pretty happy. I just like learning about tweaks - the autophagy effects that others noted was the most interesting - any fat loss would be temporary. But the idea that you can do a sort of re-set (not like the bowel cleansing stuff) on a cellular level is fascinating, but it looked like you needed to fast for at least 7 days for that to start happening.

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                • #68
                  A little coconut oil a day should restore phagocytosis, since it's inhibited by unsaturated fats.
                  Make America Great Again

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                  • #69
                    Martin Berkhan thinks women do better on shorter fasts, he recommends 16 hours for men and 14 women. Personally I think 18 hours is optimum.

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                    • #70
                      Fasting every day can be hard though, I try to do it most days and extend it to 24 hours once a week. My hunger comes in waves, about 12 hours into the fast I start getting hungry but it's not a deep hunger and it passes after about an hour and then comes back properly after about 18 hours.

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by charlii View Post
                        we could go on for ever giving the reasons why carbs are beneficial and the brain washed low carbers will get angry and make points that don't stand up against the evidence.
                        This thread hasn't attracted any low carbers. You're just ranting into the ether.

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Timthetaco View Post
                          This thread hasn't attracted any low carbers. You're just ranting into the ether.
                          They'll be reading it they just don't have anything to say that can be discredited.

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                          • #73
                            *can't

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                            • #74
                              They stopped reading a long time ago when they were shouted down by the vocal minority.
                              Man seeks to change the foods available in nature to suit his tastes, thereby putting an end to the very essence of life contained in them.
                              www.primaljoy.co.uk

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Zanna View Post
                                Interesting - so what is a healthy way for women to fast? So is the problem that many are already eating at a deficit to try and diet (~1200) instead of 1600 cal, so moving to a fast from that point is more taxing? I don't ever expect to lose weight as fast as a man but I also have no expectations or desire to try and get to the same state of leanness that men can get to. I don't think women are meant to look like that - hard to be fertile if you are fasting down to a low BF, one that is significantly lower than your natural state.
                                Purposefully chronically fasting isn't exactly a natural thing. I would fast by:

                                1.) Not eating if I wasn't truly hungry. People at at noon because it's "lunch break." Sometimes you're not hungry by noon, so don't eat just because it's noon.

                                2.) Skip a meal if there aren't any good choices out there. Some days, you may find yourself on the road and you get hungry. If every option available to you isn't a good one, the best option may be to skip one little meal til a better option is available.

                                Every once in awhile, I make myself feel hunger. Maybe once every other week I'll go 24 hours with no food. Fasting every day "just because" probably isn't a great idea.
                                Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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