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  • Ray Peat and Crazieness?

    I have been on this website and have been doing Primal since June and have been very health conscious and low carb for many, many years before that. I had never even heard of Ray Peat before coming here. I read some recent posts about Ray Peat and was quite shocked by some of the advice. I don't mean to be disrespectful to anyone's belief systems, I really don't, but I have to ask some questions. Why exactly is white sugar and orange juice supposed to be good for you? And why are salmon and avocados bad? I have read thousands and thousands of reputable health books and websites over the years and have never heard of such things. Please enlighten me. Thanks.

  • #2
    Most people have just stopped arguing with them.
    Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

    Griff's cholesterol primer
    5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
    Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
    TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
    bloodorchid is always right

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    • #3
      They are here to prevent people from enjoying Primal success. And they actually think sugar is good. They aren't pretending, they don't know they are trolling. It's sort of like an infection. "Believe what we do, or we will all occupy this thread and spew the same bad pseudoscience in unison like robots." It's disgusting, horrid, and if they were around when I was new I'd never have broken my candy and sugar addiction. It's up to us who haven't completely abandoned this forum yet to assure newbies that Primal works, and to help them tweak it to suit their needs. Without syringes of white sugar.
      Crohn's, doing SCD

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Knifegill View Post
        They are here to prevent people from enjoying Primal success. And they actually think sugar is good. They aren't pretending, they don't know they are trolling. It's sort of like an infection. "Believe what we do, or we will all occupy this thread and spew the same bad pseudoscience in unison like robots." It's disgusting, horrid, and if they were around when I was new I'd never have broken my candy and sugar addiction. It's up to us who haven't completely abandoned this forum yet to assure newbies that Primal works, and to help them tweak it to suit their needs. Without syringes of white sugar.
        Are candy and sugar the only things you were in the habit of eating pre-primal or were there more things that you ate along with them?
        | My (food) Blog | Follow me on Facebook | Pinterest | Twitter |

        “It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.” - Samuel Adams

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Knifegill View Post
          They are here to prevent people from enjoying Primal success. And they actually think sugar is good. They aren't pretending, they don't know they are trolling. It's sort of like an infection. "Believe what we do, or we will all occupy this thread and spew the same bad pseudoscience in unison like robots." It's disgusting, horrid, and if they were around when I was new I'd never have broken my candy and sugar addiction. It's up to us who haven't completely abandoned this forum yet to assure newbies that Primal works, and to help them tweak it to suit their needs. Without syringes of white sugar.
          Yeah, I just cannot understand or comprehend how anyone can think white sugar is good for you. It just defies basic common sense and Nutrition 101, and this whole Ray Peat thing seems like it is taking over the whole forum. Even Yahoo news is saying that fruit juice is bad now. And how can avocados and salmon be bad, do they mean farmed salmon? I could understand that. A lot of it seems so anti-primal. I am sure Mark doesn't agree with these views. Why doesn't he do something about it?

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          • #6
            The only viable approach to this for Mark would be to close down the forum. Tough choice
            Four years Primal with influences from Jaminet & Shanahan and a focus on being anti-inflammatory. Using Primal to treat CVD and prevent stents from blocking free of drugs.

            Eat creatures nose-to-tail (animal, fowl, fish, crustacea, molluscs), a large variety of vegetables (raw, cooked and fermented, including safe starches), dairy (cheese & yoghurt), occasional fruit, cocoa, turmeric & red wine

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            • #7
              Originally posted by CaliforniaGirl View Post
              Yeah, I just cannot understand or comprehend how anyone can think white sugar is good for you. It just defies basic common sense and Nutrition 101, and this whole Ray Peat thing seems like it is taking over the whole forum. Even Yahoo news is saying that fruit juice is bad now. And how can avocados and salmon be bad, do they mean farmed salmon? I could understand that. A lot of it seems so anti-primal. I am sure Mark doesn't agree with these views. Why doesn't he do something about it?
              Because the only thing that matters is how many eyes view a website. If the Arsenic and Old Lace Diet became a thing and brought in 5000 new eyes, that would be fine.
              "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

              B*tch-lite

              Who says back fat is a bad thing? Maybe on a hairy guy at the beach, but not on a crab.

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              • #8
                Are candy and sugar the only things you were in the habit of eating pre-primal or were there more things that you ate along with them?
                Largely, yes. Copious amounts of soda and candy. Sure, I also ate a lot of fast food, too! I ate only the cheapest, worst food. Are you suggesting I reintroduce large amounts of carbohydrate to my diet? After ditching all that stuff made me so much healthier? Yes, I understand that grains and trash oils are not the same thing as a sweet potato cooked in tallow. Not even close. But when I eat starchy, carby foods, my gut revolts! Even recently. So I get all my micronutrients the "wild" way, from organ meats, berries, seaweed, shellfish, cooked greens again (Lately. Ever try fried nettle? It's crispy!) etc. instead. And so I ask, if I can be so nutritionally complete and healthy on these starch-less and rather low-carb foods, and I'm in great health (aside from having to avoid foods that make me sick), why wouldn't I eat this way forever? And what of all the other people here, who had the guidance to try it correctly, and also have had great success? I'm sorry your thyroid gland is crap, but stop pushing that on me, and stop dissuading people who earnestly want to enjoy the dental, mental, thermal, and satiety benefits of a nutritionally complete very low carb menu.
                Last edited by Knifegill; 10-06-2013, 10:41 PM.
                Crohn's, doing SCD

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                • #9
                  there's been a lot of weird diet hacks just in the time i've been here, potatoes, cold showers, etc. none of those were deleted because this is a largely unmodded forum and people like to experiment
                  beautiful
                  yeah you are

                  Baby if you time travel back far enough you can avoid that work because the dust won't be there. You're too pretty to be working that hard.
                  lol

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Knifegill View Post
                    Largely, yes. Copious amounts of soda and candy. Sure, I also ate a lot of fast food, too! I ate only the cheapest, worst food. Are you suggesting I reintroduce large amounts of carbohydrate to my diet? After ditching all that stuff made me so much healthier? Yes, I understand that grains and trash oils are not the same thing as a sweet potato cooked in tallow. Not even close. But when I eat starchy, carby foods, my gut revolts! Even recently. So I get all my micronutrients the "wild" way, from organ meats, berries, seaweed, shellfish, cooked greens again (Lately. Ever try fried nettle? It's crispy!) etc. instead. And so I ask, if I can be so nutritionally complete and healthy on these starch-less and rather low-carb foods, and I'm in great health (aside from having to avoid foods that make me sick), why wouldn't I eat this way forever? And what of all the other people here, who had the guidance to try it correctly, and also have had great success? I'm sorry your thyroid gland is crap, but stop pushing that on me, and stop dissuading people who earnestly want to enjoy the dental, mental, thermal, and satiety benefits of a nutritionally complete very low carb menu.
                    I don't think you should change a thing if what you are doing works for you and you are happy, but I do recall you saying you'd like to be able to eat a wider selection of food without having near death experiences, so that means you probably have room for improvement that your current diet is not addressing. Besides, I don't think sugar and fruit were your problem pre-primal. I think like most others with similar histories there were a lot of confounding factors. Even one day a week of trashy foods in rancid oils can make a difference. And soda with HFCS is also not the same as sugar. Also, what kind of candy? Was there soy and dyes in it? Nuts? Hydrogenated oils? These are all very different than adding sugar to coffee. Peat doesn't recommend just eating candy; he says having some gummy bears for the gelatin once in a while is ok, and chocolate is ok. He never prescribes eating Twix to your heart's content. That's some Matt Stone crazy talk.

                    I honestly think that most people can keep sugar and fruit and even starch in their diets if they eliminate all the other toxic crap and have just as good results as Primal yields. It's not what you eat as much as what you avoid. You avoided toxic foods in one fashion, Peat people do it in another. Nutrient-dense foods are priority; sugar and all other supplements at one's discretion. Peat would never recommend a one-size-fits-all approach. There's a misunderstanding somewhere if you believe that's what he intends to come of his writing.

                    My thyroid isn't crap that I know of, but I think Peat protocol is a healthy option that's largely misunderstood by the naysayers. It all depends on what you want to eat most. And then there's the theory of if mixing fructose with PUFAs has any impact on health and so on. Bottom line is, Peat is like radical Primal. It's just a variation that puts emphasis on hormonal and metabolic health. Mark has some really disgusting recipes that are like 800 calories of nuts that make a fauxtmeal porridge. Is that really healthier than eating milk, fruit, oysters, liver, potatoes, and adding sugar to coffee?

                    I challenge anyone to put reasonable amounts of Peat food recommendations into cronometer.com and tell me what the problem is. Let's see it.
                    Last edited by j3nn; 10-06-2013, 11:09 PM.
                    | My (food) Blog | Follow me on Facebook | Pinterest | Twitter |

                    “It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.” - Samuel Adams

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                    • #11
                      Low protein? Oxidized dairy? White sugar? Drinking your calories so you stay hungry as hell and don't feel full all day? Vague representation? Tooth decay from sugar and skin patches from cheap, low-fat dairy? It's a huge list!
                      Crohn's, doing SCD

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Knifegill View Post
                        Low protein? Oxidized dairy? White sugar? Drinking your calories so you stay hungry as hell and don't feel full all day? Vague representation? Tooth decay from sugar and skin patches from cheap, low-fat dairy? It's a huge list!
                        Low protein? He recommends 100g minimum. I don't think drinking most of your calories is a good idea for everyone; some do it and thrive on it, I personally don't. I like to chew food. Others find it satiating because dairy and fruit seems to be a winning combo for many people. Peat recommends raw milk, not necessarily pasteurized unless it's all you can get.

                        Is there evidence that eating dairy and fruit and sugar in your coffee inevitably leads to tooth decay?! Dairy doesn't necessarily have to be cheap and of low quality, nor does it affect everyone like that. That's just a wild exaggeration on your behalf. I wouldn't buy typical supermarket dairy anymore unless it's all that was available and I did ok with it.
                        Last edited by j3nn; 10-06-2013, 11:47 PM.
                        | My (food) Blog | Follow me on Facebook | Pinterest | Twitter |

                        “It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.” - Samuel Adams

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                        • #13
                          I don't necessarily believe sugar is toxic per se. It's how much of it you consume that goes into that factor. Some people can handle more than others can. Heck even water and oxygen in large quantities can be toxic to our bodies. But those amounts are far below what we normally consume. On the other hand it is easier for many of us to consume too much sugar because it resides in just about every food in the SAD. In the end, I would prefer the natural sugars from fruits over the processed sugars from candy and soda.

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                          • #14
                            Can someone explain why the Peat plan says that salmon and avocados are bad? I eat these foods almost everyday. I only eat wild salmon and not farmed, and the avocados are usually organic.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Paleo0731 View Post
                              I don't necessarily believe sugar is toxic per se. It's how much of it you consume that goes into that factor. Some people can handle more than others can. Heck even water and oxygen in large quantities can be toxic to our bodies. But those amounts are far below what we normally consume. On the other hand it is easier for many of us to consume too much sugar because it resides in just about every food in the SAD. In the end, I would prefer the natural sugars from fruits over the processed sugars from candy and soda.
                              Yep, the poison is in the dosage. If sugar is displacing necessary nutrients, you have yourself a problem. If it's enhancing an otherwise complete diet, you're probably ok. Sugar suffers from guilty by association; just because it's in so many horrible foods doesn't mean that its inherently bad. Context matters.
                              | My (food) Blog | Follow me on Facebook | Pinterest | Twitter |

                              “It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.” - Samuel Adams

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