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  • #31
    Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    Smoke point isn't what determines when an oil oxidizes or loses flavor. It determines when it...smokes.

    Refined soybean oil's smoke point is far higher than virgin coconut oil's smoke point. I assure you, virgin coconut oil is more stable.
    I stand corrected. But there is some correlation between oxidizing and heat, right? Do it in baby steps, I'm really not getting it. I thought oils with low smoke points also broke down/oxidized at lower temps. Thanks in advance for any additional info.
    "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

    B*tch-lite

    Who says back fat is a bad thing? Maybe on a hairy guy at the beach, but not on a crab.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by JoanieL View Post
      I stand corrected. But there is some correlation between oxidizing and heat, right? Do it in baby steps, I'm really not getting it. I thought oils with low smoke points also broke down/oxidized at lower temps. Thanks in advance for any additional info.
      Smoke points follow the impurities in the oil. A virgin oil will have a much lower smoke point than a refined oil. Example: expeller-pressed coconut oil has a very high smoke point, but virgin coconut oil has a very low smoke point. Same thing goes with olive oil. From the list you posted:

      Olive oil Extra virgin 375F
      Olive oil Virgin 391F
      Olive oil Pomace 460F
      Olive oil Extra light 468F


      The more purified the oil, the more resistant it is to smoking. However, in terms of oxidation, the polyphenols in the virgin oils are antioxidants. The more you refine it down, the more antioxidants you lose and the more damaged the oil becomes with heat. Extra virgin olive oil will smoke almost 100 degrees before extra light, but it is far more oxidation resistant.

      Consider this: distilled water DOES NOT BOIL. You can heat it up to 300 degrees and it'll just sit there. Then, throw one drop of tap water in it AND IT WILL EXPLODE. That is because you are introducing impurities into the mix, which allows the boiling. FYI - never do this, you will potentially create severe burns from a massive explosion.

      I don't really think it has much to do with the fat itself. The polyunsaturated oils tend to have higher smoke points because they tend to be more refined. When do you see virgin, cold-pressed soybean oil? I've never seen it, but good quality olive oil and coconut oil are everywhere. Refined olive oil is just a smoke-resistant as refined soybean oil, but it'll be more oxidation-resistant thanks to the much lower PUFA content. Out of the two, which would I buy? Neither.
      Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 10-01-2013, 07:39 AM.
      Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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      • #33
        Got it. Thank you. That clears stuff up.

        And not to worry - I won't do the distilled water experiment. I'll take your word on it.
        "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

        B*tch-lite

        Who says back fat is a bad thing? Maybe on a hairy guy at the beach, but not on a crab.

        Comment


        • #34
          Distilled water boils. So does double-distilled & deionized "laboratory" water in sterile, dust-free, impurity-free containers. I do it every day. It boils like crazy.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
            Soda is a concentrated source of calories for sure, but it is difficult for the body to convert carbohydrate into fat. In addition, the more carbohydrate you eat, the more your metabolism picks up. True, the rise in metabolism is never as high as the calories consumed, but fat contributes none. Overconsuming fat doesn't speed your metabolism up any faster.

            If you sit on your ass and pound soda all day, as long as you're not consuming it alongside a fat source, it isn't going to be efficiently fattening. When you consume it alongside a greasy cheeseburger and fries, NOW you have a recipe for massive fat gain because your adipose tissue will suck up all that dietary fat and you won't burn any because you'll be burning the sugars from the soda preferrentially.

            Eating a diet high in protein and carbohydrate but with no fat isn't an efficiently fattening diet until you throw dietary fat in the mix. It happens to be that fattening foods are high in fat AND carbs - french fries, brownies, cake, cookies, doughnuts and chicken alfredo pasta all contain as much fat as they do carbs, so you burn the carbs and store the fat. It would be very difficult to get fat eating a diet of soda and pixie stix in the absence of all dietary fat. The average male has to consume something like 700g of carbohydrate a day before de novo lipogenesis (conversion of carbs to fat) is significant in the absence of dietary fat.

            But how likely is it you'll consume 20 cans of Coke a day and zero fat?
            Ok--- LOVE all your knowledge Choco... so so interesting. I'm still trying to take this post in. Since I was VLCing for so long and had a bad experience I am trying to figure out how to eat now. I want to be healthy, no doubt, but I also don't want to gain any weight now that I am adding carbs back in. I love routine and structure even down to what I eat so I need to figure out my new eating plan.

            After reading this post above - I'm figuring it out a little easier. Would you critique my idea of a healthy eating plan that will keep my weight in check?


            BREAKFAST: eggs and meat (bacon, sausage or my favorite-- chorizo sausage)

            DURING DAY: fruit and/or sweet potato

            DINNER: salad with tons of veggies and cheese


            This would be my eating plan except for Friday nights and Sundays. Please let me know how it looks to you.

            Thanks a million!!!

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Jimm View Post
              Distilled water boils. So does double-distilled & deionized "laboratory" water in sterile, dust-free, impurity-free containers. I do it every day. It boils like crazy.
              That's it! I'm never believing anything I read on this board again!
              "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

              B*tch-lite

              Who says back fat is a bad thing? Maybe on a hairy guy at the beach, but not on a crab.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by JoanieL View Post
                That's it! I'm never believing anything I read on this board again!
                Do me a favor and believe this before you believe the carbs-without-fat Biochemical Pathway.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                  Consider this: distilled water DOES NOT BOIL. You can heat it up to 300 degrees and it'll just sit there. Then, throw one drop of tap water in it AND IT WILL EXPLODE. That is because you are introducing impurities into the mix, which allows the boiling. FYI - never do this, you will potentially create severe burns from a massive explosion.

                  Originally posted by Jimm View Post
                  Distilled water boils. So does double-distilled & deionized "laboratory" water in sterile, dust-free, impurity-free containers. I do it every day. It boils like crazy.
                  The water becomes super-heated because there are no particulates on which the gas bubbles can percolate. Once you introduce particulates from impure tap water, yeah, it explodes. So does throwing a fork or spoon into it. Or moving the container violently. There are youtube videos you can watch. Don't try this at home.

                  Always use a boiling stick or chips when boiling water in the lab.

                  I'm not sure if an oil smoking is the same process though. Water boiling is just a phase transition, but I think when an oil smokes, it's actually burning? I mean, it's not like the oil is vaporizing.

                  My journal

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                  • #39
                    Do me a favor and believe this before you believe the carbs-without-fat Biochemical Pathway.
                    Me? Carbs and no fat? Not likely. I've got half a beef tongue in the fridge with my name on it.

                    And really I'm never going to do an experiment where explosion is the punchline. I've googled, and it looks like distilled water boils at about the same temp as tap water. Is that correct?
                    "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

                    B*tch-lite

                    Who says back fat is a bad thing? Maybe on a hairy guy at the beach, but not on a crab.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      The boiling point for water is 100 degrees Celcius. This is true for all kinds of H2O. However, distilled water can become superheated, as I explained above. Superheating - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                      There are also Youtube videos you can watch of people heating up water in the microwave. The water would not be boiling, but once they throw a fork into it, it will explode (not a literal explosion with fire, but the water will fly out of the container). For a while, you'd hear things in the news about people who were heating up water in the microwave, then they take it out, and either because they shook the container while removing it or because they subsequently placed a tea bag in it, the water flies into their face and they get burned.

                      My journal

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                      • #41
                        Yeah, water is water. But I'm not a Physics pro.

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                        • #42
                          For what it's worth on the olive oil thing, heard this on NPR yesterday. The California Ranch brand is pretty easy to find.

                          To Get The Benefits of Olive Oil, Fresh May Be Best : The Salt : NPR
                          Breathe. Move forward.

                          I just eat what I want...

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                          • #43
                            Right! Before the thread gets totally hijacked-
                            these are the trusted sources?

                            California Olive Oil Council :: Certifying California Extra Virgin Olive Oil since 1992

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by JulieRUNS View Post
                              Ok--- LOVE all your knowledge Choco... so so interesting. I'm still trying to take this post in. Since I was VLCing for so long and had a bad experience I am trying to figure out how to eat now. I want to be healthy, no doubt, but I also don't want to gain any weight now that I am adding carbs back in. I love routine and structure even down to what I eat so I need to figure out my new eating plan.

                              After reading this post above - I'm figuring it out a little easier. Would you critique my idea of a healthy eating plan that will keep my weight in check?


                              BREAKFAST: eggs and meat (bacon, sausage or my favorite-- chorizo sausage)

                              DURING DAY: fruit and/or sweet potato

                              DINNER: salad with tons of veggies and cheese


                              This would be my eating plan except for Friday nights and Sundays. Please let me know how it looks to you.

                              Thanks a million!!!
                              I think everything you listed is a perfectly fine food. Would it work for me? No way, too much fat, not enough carbohydrate. I lift heavy 4 times a week, and as a 27 year old male I'd be crushed. You being a female that I'm guessing isn't a weight lifting enthusiast? Maybe it's more appropriate for you. Age has a lot to do with it, too. The younger you are, the more carbs and less fat I'd say you should eat. And of course - does your calorie intake fit your goals? Are you eating enough to build muscle? Are you eating too much to lose fat? How many grams of protein are you eating?

                              These are all what you have to consider. Food choices are what matters for health, but quantity of calories and macros are what will determine your physical performance and aesthetics. I've been at it pretty hard for 3 years and I'm still learning every day. It's a slow road full of experimentation.

                              I recommend you read moluv's journal. I have a feeling you may be in a similar situation and I'm very impressed with her. It may speak to you.

                              http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread92746.html
                              Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Jimm View Post
                                Distilled water boils. So does double-distilled & deionized "laboratory" water in sterile, dust-free, impurity-free containers. I do it every day. It boils like crazy.
                                The Myth About Superheating Water in the Microwave

                                Have you ever experienced the phenomenon of superheating water in the microwave? Superheating is what happens when water is heated past its boiling point, yet doesn't form the bubbles we associate with boiling. Superheated water is dangerous because it looks like it's cooler than boiling, yet may actually be several degrees hotter! Also, when the superheated water is disturbed, as by bumping the container, stirring the water or adding something to it, the water may suddenly boil or vaporize into burning steam.
                                This is what I'm getting at.
                                Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                                Comment

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