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The myth of “a broken metabolism”…

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  • #16
    I agree many folks hastily self-diagnose this sort of thing. A true "slow metabolism" would also reduce appetite by the same margin so the real question is how appetite and expenditure become misaligned.
    If a 5'6" woman eats 800 cals a day for more than 2 days in a row that means she has no appetite or she is locked up in a padded room and devours whatever given to her, then goes on her knees and begs for more and nobody cares. If that's what I am looking at in 12 years, shoot me now.
    Last edited by Leida; 09-25-2013, 01:45 PM.
    My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
    When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by picklepete View Post
      I agree many folks hastily self-diagnose this sort of thing. A true "slow metabolism" would also reduce appetite by the same margin so the real question is how appetite and expenditure become misaligned.
      So very yes. Whenever I talk about someone who's experiencing "broken metabolism," that's what I'm saying. Their appetite signaling doesn't match their energy needs. Due to what mechanism, nobody really knows (hint: food reward + inadequate micronutrition + other stuff). Just don't say "insulin" though or the internets will explode.
      The Champagne of Beards

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      • #18
        Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
        Did you even read my post?

        It becomes impossible to accurately calculate CICO when you live a completely random, chaotic lifestyle. Your entire initial point was that it's difficult to accurately measure the 'CO' part of the equation. The only way to do it is to take in a large deficit, which isn't optimal. The best way to assure a deficit is to keep a stable TDEE, and you do that through ROUTINE.
        I was messing with you, bro. I don't personally believe that 1200 kCal of OJ will result in the same metabolic effects as 1200 kCal of steak. You've made similar claims many times. But I was going for teh funniez.
        The Champagne of Beards

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        • #19
          Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
          So very yes. Whenever I talk about someone who's experiencing "broken metabolism," that's what I'm saying. Their appetite signaling doesn't match their energy needs. Due to what mechanism, nobody really knows (hint: food reward + inadequate micronutrition + other stuff). Just don't say "insulin" though or the internets will explode.
          Cortisol. Drives appetite, breaks down muscle, stores fat. Also causes bleeding gums
          "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

          In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

          - Ray Peat

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          • #20
            Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
            "Broken metabolism" sounds like a crock, but I could buy "hormonal imbalances".
            Yes. If you have to go severely low on calories and it is painstaking to do so, that to me says you're managing symptoms of a greater underlying problem that needs to be corrected. Much like using a hack like VLC. If you have hormonal imbalance or thyroid or any other metabolic function that's not optimal, you should focus on fixing this. Building muscle helps your overall metabolic rate, but hormonal balance is more important and seems to affect women at a greater rate than men.

            It seems defeatist to me to just concede to having to abide by a low caloric intake just to get certain results. I think weight loss should be a side effect of a healthy and energetic body. if you feel your metabolism is not up to par, concentrate on getting it to where you feel it should be.
            | My (food) Blog | Follow me on Facebook | Pinterest | Twitter |

            “It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.” - Samuel Adams

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            • #21
              Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
              Cortisol. Drives appetite, breaks down muscle, stores fat. Also causes bleeding gums
              I see your cortisol and raise you glucagon.
              The Champagne of Beards

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              • #22
                Originally posted by j3nn View Post
                Yes. If you have to go severely low on calories and it is painstaking to do so, that to me says you're managing symptoms of a greater underlying problem that needs to be corrected. Much like using a hack like VLC. If you have hormonal imbalance or thyroid or any other metabolic function that's not optimal, you should focus on fixing this. Building muscle helps your overall metabolic rate, but hormonal balance is more important and seems to affect women at a greater rate than men.

                It seems defeatist to me to just concede to having to abide by a low caloric intake just to get certain results. I think weight loss should be a side effect of a healthy and energetic body. if you feel your metabolism is not up to par, concentrate on getting it to where you feel it should be.
                Yup. If your hormones are haywire there's not a lot you can do about weight loss. A statement I never truly believed until two weeks ago, when my cortisol started to drop and I started losing weight again.

                "Broken metabolism" is defeatist. It's hormonal fluctuations and patterns that people's bodies have gotten stuck in. Once the patterns are broken, the metabolism rights itself. Our bodies want to be healthy.
                "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                - Ray Peat

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                • #23
                  I'll go with 'it's a curse'.

                  Seriously though, how the heck you know what a hormonal balance is and how do you go about correcting it....
                  My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
                  When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
                    I see your cortisol and raise you glucagon.
                    I'll take your glucagon and raise your testosterone


                    Originally posted by Leida View Post
                    I'll go with 'it's a curse'.

                    Seriously though, how the heck you know what a hormonal balance is and how do you go about correcting it....
                    Blood tests, research, experimentation. Finding out I had hormonal imbalances was the best thing that ever happened to me!
                    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                    - Ray Peat

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
                      "Broken metabolism" sounds like a crock, but I could buy "hormonal imbalances".
                      Downregulated metabolism without resulting downregulated appetite or regular metabolism with upregulated appetite due to hormonal imbalances/dysregulation. That's what I think of when I hear the term "broken metabolism" So same diff. I don't mind either term. I don't think "broken metabolism" is defeatist just like I don't think "flat tire" is defeatist. I'm not going to throw the car away, I'm gonna put on the spare and go get the tire plugged or replaced.
                      The Champagne of Beards

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                      • #26
                        It's defeatist if you settle for reduced CICO theory and don't try to improve your burn rate. Some people might be ok with forever very low cal, but I think most people want to eat as much as possible without consequence and most importantly, feel awesome.
                        | My (food) Blog | Follow me on Facebook | Pinterest | Twitter |

                        “It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.” - Samuel Adams

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
                          I'll take your glucagon and raise your testosterone
                          I need my glucagon. What are you doing with testosterone? You're a lady!!
                          The Champagne of Beards

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
                            I need my glucagon. What are you doing with testosterone? You're a lady!!
                            I was TRYING to cyber hit-on you. Sheesh
                            "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                            In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                            - Ray Peat

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
                              I was messing with you, bro. I don't personally believe that 1200 kCal of OJ will result in the same metabolic effects as 1200 kCal of steak. You've made similar claims many times. But I was going for teh funniez.
                              Weight loss wise? It will be pretty much the same. Body composition wise? There will obviously be a difference.

                              Obviously you have to pick foods with equal protein content. Oranges versus avocado, perhaps.
                              Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
                                "Broken metabolism" is defeatist. It's hormonal fluctuations and patterns that people's bodies have gotten stuck in. Once the patterns are broken, the metabolism rights itself. Our bodies want to be healthy.
                                But it is far less metabolic slow down that most people think, normally between 5-25% "...depending on genetics, previous diet attempts, food quality and source and level of caloric deficit." So, if your RMR is 1500 kcal then a worst case slowdown scenario is RMR =1125 kcal, unless you have some serious hormonal disorders...
                                "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

                                - Schopenhauer

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