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  • #46
    Originally posted by FrenchFry View Post
    From the little I know, pasteurization is a problem because yes, it kills off the probiotics (but some are added afterwards to minimize the issue), but it also breaks down the proteins into potentially harmful peptides (cf. BCM7, A2 vs A1 beta-casein). It is definitely resulting in a more "dead" product ... after all, a mother's breast milk does not have to be pasteurized prior to ingestion by her baby (?).
    That is a wild extrapolation. It's like saying because hunter-gatherers didn't know when their next meal would come from and often overate and went long times without food, it's good to fast for long periods of time and stuff your face all the time. We've seen over and over again chronic fasting and chronic overeating are problematic, and shown repeatedly that not everything ancient is good and not everything neolithic is bad. Given my druthers, I'd take raw milk 10 out of 10 times, but it just isn't an option for 90% of us. Pasteurized dairy is the only option, especially when it comes to yogurt and cheese, and I strongly believe even pasteurized dairy to be very nutritious, moreso than most "paleo approved" foods (nuts, seeds, assorted weeds). I'm trying not to "let perfect be the enemy of good."
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Hotmail View Post
      Realised there is a typo in my original post, I meant start with at least 1000iu, but if you want the truth I usually take the larger dose immediately and in about 6-8 weeks when I feel a difference I lower the dose, this is because biotin is actually expensive here in the UK.

      Also egg yolk has biotin in it.

      First time I had the hair falling I ws doing Atkins proper and had my carb raised upping the ladder (was on about 50) but that still didn't make a difference, so my option if I wanted to do LC/VLC/ZC is to take the biotin.
      Thanks for the post! I also had an error in my post. I am taking Standard Process Collagen along with Biotin.

      I'm surprised you even consider LC, VLC, ect. after experiencing hair loss. Do you do a carb cycling? I'm taking my new carb mode one day at a time but am wondering after reading your post - how the heck will I lose even maintain my current weight now that I'm adding the carbs in. I'm running like the wind on carbs every day so that is great but I was running and low carbing before so where do I go from here so I don't put on any weight? People might say don't worry about the scale but at my age... ya do!

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      • #48
        Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
        That is a wild extrapolation. It's like saying because hunter-gatherers didn't know when their next meal would come from and often overate and went long times without food, it's good to fast for long periods of time and stuff your face all the time. We've seen over and over again chronic fasting and chronic overeating are problematic, and shown repeatedly that not everything ancient is good and not everything neolithic is bad. Given my druthers, I'd take raw milk 10 out of 10 times, but it just isn't an option for 90% of us. Pasteurized dairy is the only option, especially when it comes to yogurt and cheese, and I strongly believe even pasteurized dairy to be very nutritious, moreso than most "paleo approved" foods (nuts, seeds, assorted weeds). I'm trying not to "let perfect be the enemy of good."
        Hi there, I don't know what you read or understood in my post but I don't understand your answer, it seems off the mark. I personally eat tons of dairy, pasteurized or not. I avoid milk because I suck at lactose digestion, and I sort of buy the argument about the A2 vs A1 beta-casein issue (it's my personal choice). It remains that pasteurization seems irrelevant and sort of kills an otherwise very much alive food. Is that a reason to avoid it ? Well, I don't avoid such products personally and definitely prefer them to nuts, seeds, etc (the latter are not a staple at all but once in a while, I do eat a few mac nuts or munch on pumpkin seeds).

        I humbly suggest you stop biasing posts just because you see keywords that collide with your point-of-view, it does not mean that the post is in opposition with it at all. That is how I interpret your reply to my post, sorry if I misunderstood you.

        One last thing: I am not paleo but consider myself mostly "primal", which is no excluding neolithic elements at all (I eat grains as well, just not gluten bearing ones, I like coffee and chocolate, etc, etc).

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        • #49
          Originally posted by JulieRUNS View Post
          Thanks for the post! I also had an error in my post. I am taking Standard Process Collagen along with Biotin.

          I'm surprised you even consider LC, VLC, ect. after experiencing hair loss. Do you do a carb cycling? I'm taking my new carb mode one day at a time but am wondering after reading your post - how the heck will I lose even maintain my current weight now that I'm adding the carbs in. I'm running like the wind on carbs every day so that is great but I was running and low carbing before so where do I go from here so I don't put on any weight? People might say don't worry about the scale but at my age... ya do!
          Actually yes for just over a year been sort of cycling, but not planned cycling, I drift into ZC for a few weeks (month or two) then I drift into mainly veg low fat some starch... I haven't planned it this way but it happened, and I followed my instict with it.

          VLC or LC does cause me hair loss, but I think it was because I wasn't taking the proper supplements, I am taking care of it now and taking biotin, I am not sure how it will work out at the end.

          Yes me too, after 2 years of ZC then VLC I ate some carbs/fruit and was running so easily, thing is I couldn't maintain my weight when eating carbs, had an insidious increase over the last year just crept up on me, and frankly I know I won’t be making running as a life style for me, I love walking & hiking I know I can do that until I am well in my 80’s , so happier to do less active work with less carbs... we'll see where I end, but now I no longer believe a specific way of eating is forever and ever and ever, I think our bodies are constantly changing and we must change our food with it

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          • #50
            Originally posted by marc View Post
            Never understood how someone can be "anti-carbs". :S
            I'm interested... Seriously, Carbs have a purpose, just like every other food source and I wonder why or how people get this anti-carb opinion from?
            We've been having some Carb Wars lately. There's a contingent of folks on the forum who seem to think that it's okay to eat upwards of 200g - 300 g carb/day every day as potatoes and rice as long the foods are whole and unprocessed. Heck, the carb lovers have posted stuff which sounds to me like CICO.

            I'm not anti-carb, but I'm anti-spud. However, I can't seem to advise overweight people to avoid the carby spuds. If I do, well, it gets nasty.

            Either way, the OP looks like she's under 50g carb per day. At her activity level she should be eating at least twice the carbs.
            5'0" female, 45 years old. Started Primal October 31, 2011, at a skinny fat 111.5 lbs. Low weight: 99.5 lb on a fast. Gained back to 115(!) on SAD chocolate, potato chips, and stress. Currently 111.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
              Pasteurized dairy is the only option, especially when it comes to yogurt and cheese, and I strongly believe even pasteurized dairy to be very nutritious, moreso than most "paleo approved" foods (nuts, seeds, assorted weeds). I'm trying not to "let perfect be the enemy of good."
              In my experience, it's much easier to find raw cheese than raw milk. In my state, you can't sell raw milk but hard cheeses like cheddar can be sold raw if aged long enough.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by dilberryhoundog View Post
                It's funny you know, in my country dairy farming has a long proud history, despite large milk = good for bone health, childhood calcium problems are sharply on the rise.

                This is the problem, choco's statement that milk has a large amount of bio available calcium is largely very true FOR MILK THAT IS UNPROCESSED. In my country milk cannot be sold for human consumption unless it has been pasteurised (heat treated) in all forms of dairy including cheese and yogurt. This processing kills all the enzymes that allow the calcium to be absorbed into the body. Therefore you get more calcium out of your greens than your processed milk.


                Sent from my iPhone
                Thats what a digestive system is for. So are you saying any source of calcium that doesnt come with its own enzymes (supplements!) will not be absorbed?
                Last edited by Zach; 09-27-2013, 06:49 AM.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Zach View Post
                  Thats what a digestive system is for. So are you saying any source of calcium that comes without its own enzymes (supplements!) will not be absorbed?
                  What is a digestive system's main component? Enzymes

                  Milk is made for babies, babies don't have much in the way of stomach enzymes, therefore milk usually comes with its own digestive enzymes. Adults who also didn't evolutionarily ever drink milk, don't have the enzymes either, for breaking down milk.

                  What I'm saying is that a particular calcium source that has its specific enzymes that come with it, become a lot harder to digest when the specific enzymes get destroyed


                  Sent from my iPhone
                  A little primal gem - My Success Story
                  Weight lost in 4 months - 29kg (64 lbs)

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by dilberryhoundog View Post
                    What is a digestive system's main component? Enzymes

                    Milk is made for babies, babies don't have much in the way of stomach enzymes, therefore milk usually comes with its own digestive enzymes. Adults who also didn't evolutionarily ever drink milk, don't have the enzymes either, for breaking down milk.

                    What I'm saying is that a particular calcium source that has its specific enzymes that come with it, become a lot harder to digest when the specific enzymes get destroyed


                    Sent from my iPhone
                    Thats not even close to what you said the first time. Also you were talking about calcium, now your talking about lactose. Do you have any information showing that calcium from milk does not get absorbed when pasteurized?

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by dilberryhoundog View Post
                      What is a digestive system's main component? Enzymes

                      Milk is made for babies, babies don't have much in the way of stomach enzymes, therefore milk usually comes with its own digestive enzymes. Adults who also didn't evolutionarily ever drink milk, don't have the enzymes either, for breaking down milk.

                      What I'm saying is that a particular calcium source that has its specific enzymes that come with it, become a lot harder to digest when the specific enzymes get destroyed


                      Sent from my iPhone
                      I'd say a digestive system's main component is the bacteria cultures. They outnumber our cells in the body, actually, so technically there is more of them than us. That's why prolonged VLC diets are so dangerous and tend to lead to food sensitivities, allergies and a slow metabolism - your gut bacteria diet off without sugar and soluble fiber to feed them.

                      Also still waiting on that info showing pasteurized dairy isn't a useful source of calcium...
                      Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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                      • #56
                        Lookout Dilberryhoundog, you have two well read, highly combative, Peaters on you now. One has blood pouring out of his head already and the other is carrying a sword
                        Some of you may die, but that is a risk I'm willing to take.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Black Timber View Post
                          Lookout Dilberryhoundog, you have two well read, highly combative, Peaters on you now. One has blood pouring out of his head already and the other is carrying a sword
                          Peaters?

                          Incorrect information needs to be properly refuted.
                          Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by turquoisepassion View Post
                            Iron might be low. Eat more red meat. You are also eating wayyy too few calories. Hair and etc could suffer if your body has zero calories to maintain itself. Running 4-5mi probably burns... 500 cals? You should be eating closer to 1500-1600.

                            Get your thyroid & iron levels checked. Better to come back to this forum with definitive test results...
                            You could eat 2000+ calories if you're running that much....more meat!
                            The life I have today is far better than I deserve.......

                            M, 58, 6'0
                            SW - 192
                            CW - 180
                            GW - 165-170

                            Current addiction: ice cream (and sugar in general).....doing battle with it!

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by dilberryhoundog View Post
                              It's funny you know, in my country dairy farming has a long proud history, despite large milk = good for bone health, childhood calcium problems are sharply on the rise.
                              That is more likely because of the lack of D-vitamin and K2 (which works together with the absorption and deposition of calcium to the bones). This is due to factory farmed cows and because children don't play outside in the sun much any more - and when they do, they have lots of sunscreen on.
                              Take a walk on the wild side.

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                              • #60
                                I agree that your calories are too low -- by a lot -- which would mean that your protein is too low.

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