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Anyone have children who have been primal from birth? Let's talk!

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  • Anyone have children who have been primal from birth? Let's talk!

    My son is 11 months and has been primal since birth. Also, a good portion of my pregnancy was primal, though I did end up cheating quite a bit. He's still breastfed and shows no signs of slowing down. He's been interested in food since 5 months. I started giving him small amounts at around 6 months. In the past month, he's really eating much more--I try to allow him to self-feed as much as possible, and he's gotten quite good at it recently. Here's what he eats:

    I try to keep the diet meat/fat heavy:
    Beef
    Bone marrow
    chicken
    lamb
    ostrich
    pork
    turkey

    Egg yolk

    Greek yogurt
    -sometimes mixed with fruit
    blueberries
    blackberries (LOVES these--mixed with cream last night which he though was fantastic)
    raspberries (a TINY amount)
    peaches
    mango
    banana
    mixed fruit (I think apple/cherry/cantelope/honeydew that I puree with water for his daycare)

    He doesn't particularly care for vegetables, but he's eaten:
    broccoli
    cauliflower
    spinach
    carrots
    onion
    sweet potato (I know, not strictly primal, but I'm ok with it)

    On a couple of occasions he has had bits of the almond flour pancakes that I was eating.

    I'm looking for more ideas or suggestions. Also, his personality and disposition is absolutely FANTASTIC. I would think I could attribute at least some of it to his diet--especially when I look at the sheets at his daycare of the other kids and see "How my day has been: Moody" and a list of foods like blueberry pancakes, "Puffs", french toast sticks, and rice cereal. I know I'm biased, but he is SUCH a good baby nearly all the time, especially with other people. He does cry for attention when I'm around, but it is more of when he wants to be picked up, fed, etc.

    What are the dispositions of your kids? How do you see primal affecting their health and personalities?

  • #2
    My kids eat a lot of meat and veggies now - primal more or less, on and off for about 6 or 7 years - since age 1.5 and 3. But I was a vegetarian ;( during both pregnancies, extremely vitamin D deficient, got nowhere near enough zinc and we have all of the 'stuff' to show for it: ADHD, LD. Prevention is always easier than the treatment.

    Fwiw, temperment is largely genetic and I have a difficult temperment as well - but, as we know, various nutritional and environmental factors control gene expression. It about kills me to think about what I ate during the pregnancies - but even worse: how vitamin D deficient I was.

    The three biggest growth components for infants are calcium, phosphorus and protein: I'd keep that in mind when meal planning. Typically, in a traditional society, soft organ meats are the first things a baby eats - liver and brain are the biggies so I'd try to replicate at least the liver.

    I wish I'd have started plain yogurt around 10 months....egg yolk around 4-6 mos along with grated liver.

    I wish I'd have started fermented foods early(ie traditional sauerkraut etc) to get them used to the tangy, sour taste that is often *so* good for us.

    I'd start dark green stuff now - even if you have to pulverize it. Salady stuff too.
    Bone broths are extremely important.

    Be sure he gets 400 IU vitamin D per 10 lbs body weight per day on days that he doesn't get midday, *summer*, full body, unprotected, sun exposure to the point just before a burn.

    Avoid cod liver oil - stick with fish oil on days when he doesn't get fatty fish or grass/pasture finished meat. There's just too much A floating around in CLO:
    From The Vitamin D Council newsletter
    Seventeen experts—many of them world-class experts—recently recommended:
    ""Until we have better information on doses of vitamin D that will reliably provide adequate blood levels of 25(OH)D without toxicity, treatment of vitamin D deficiency in otherwise healthy children should be individualized according to the numerous factors that affect 25(OH)D levels, such as body weight, percent body fat, skin melanin, latitude, season of the year, and sun exposure. The doses of sunshine or oral vitamin D3 used in healthy children should be designed to maintain 25(OH)D levels above 50 ng/mL. As a rule, in the absence of significant sun exposure, we believe that most healthy children need about 1,000 IU of vitamin D3 daily per 11 kg (25 lb) of body weight to obtain levels greater than 50 ng/mL. Some will need more, and others less. In our opinion, children with chronic illnesses such as autism, diabetes, and/or frequent infections should be supplemented with higher doses of sunshine or vitamin D3, doses adequate to maintain their 25(OH)D levels in the mid-normal of the reference range (65 ng/mL) — and should be so supplemented year-round (p. 868)."

    Ann Otol Rhinol Laryngol. 2008 Nov;117(11):864-70.

    Cod liver oil, vitamin A toxicity, frequent respiratory infections, and the vitamin D deficiency epidemic.
    Cannell JJ, Vieth R, Willett W, Zasloff M, Hathcock JN, White JH, Tanumihardjo SA, Larson-Meyer DE, Bischoff-Ferrari HA, Lamberg-Allardt CJ, Lappe JM, Norman AW, Zittermann A, Whiting SJ, Grant WB, Hollis BW, Giovannucci E.

    Department of Psychiatry, Atascadero State Hospital, Atascadero, California, USA. jcannell@ash.dmh.ca.gov

    Those are some serious heavy hitters in the D world. Serious stuff this D:A ratio.


    K



    iherb referral code CIL457- $5 off first order

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    • #3
      My 1 year old is now mostly primal - she was a sweetheart before I switched her to primal and is still a darling. The 2 year old was "spirited" her whole life (her nanny, mother of four and from a huge family confided to me that she didn't realize babies could cry that much) and remains so.

      The pretty much eat what I eat + yogurt and organic whole milk with dha (algae source). They also will have more fruit as I am trying to lose fa and eat more veggies

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      • #4
        My youngest daughter is 13 months and primal from birth. I am also still breastfeeding her. She is so sweet. Rarely cries - always smiling. She was just sick over the weekend - fever and now rash. Really it was the first time I remember her being ill....

        I skipped the mush phase and went straight to giving her large chunks of food at around 7 months - meat was the first I gave her. The rationale behind it is to teach the child to chew first before swallowing. Also allowing the baby to self feed lets them eat until they are satisfied versus when a certain number of jars are empty. At first she would just suck on the meat. I would give her fatty pieces so she would eat the fat. It was great for teething and she can now polish off quite a bit. I also feed her large chunks of veggies. I steam them soft but firm so she can hold them. The pieces have to be large enough so when she grabs them, there is enough to bite from either the top of her fist or bottom.

        I do give her whole fat yogurt that I blend with berries into a little smoothie. I use the So Delicious coconut milk that is not sweetened to thin it out. I have some Vitol egg protein and I sometimes put a little bit of that in there. I just ordered MCT oil to add that.

        My other kids are slowly coming around. My oldest was a carb kid from birth, but breastfed so at least I did that right. lol. He is 8 now. I watched him tear through some grass fed shredded beef tonight at dinner and not touch the rice I made for my husband (he is mostly primal, but likes rice and potatoes). Before he would eat mostly rice and push the meat around. My middle child loves meat. She is 3. I am not one for making the kids eat 3 meals a day. I let them tell me when they are hungry (of course, I know when they need to eat and have food prepared). She asks for meat, eggs, cheese and hot dogs (uncured). She is finally growing well. She is the reason we are all gluten free as she got very sick from gluten the moment it was given to her. I wish I had put it together sooner, but I had no idea how horrible gluten was at the time.

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        • #5
          My wife and I are on our 6th year of strict paleo eating.

          Our 2 kids (1.5 and 2.5) have eaten the same from birth.

          They are both fantastic compared to what we hear from other parents with kids the same ages. They are don't get sick and are usually very well behaved (diet still can't fix lack of sleep .
          The "Seven Deadly Sins"

          • Grains (wheat/rice/oats etc) . . . . . • Dairy (milk/yogurt/butter/cheese etc) . . . . .• Nightshades (peppers/tomato/eggplant etc)
          • Tubers (potato/arrowroot etc) . . . • Modernly palatable (cashews/olives etc) . . . • Refined foods (salt/sugars etc )
          • Legumes (soy/beans/peas etc)

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          • #6
            Ooer, good parents here! I always feel so sad when I see little kids eating fries and drinking pop. I most likely had massive nutritional deficiencies when I was young and I got the blame for freaking out at my teachers in elementary school. Yeah sure, okay then. Kids are barely sentient at that age, parents need to take some fucking initiative and learn a thing or two. And why the fuck are my bones so goddamn thin?

            *fume and roar*
            Stabbing conventional wisdom in its face.

            Anyone who wants to talk nutrition should PM me!

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            • #7
              here'e the link for my doc - formatting is much better at the link:
              http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AV...tuZHNnMw&hl=en

              Infant Nutrition and Starting Solids
              compiled by Katherine Morrison
              excerpted from the following sites and from other sources over time
              buying fish oil, D or other supplements? $5 off iherb.com discount coupon code CIL457


              note: don't ever prechew baby's food. this is a major source of s. mutans transmission.
              While cavity formation is multi-factorial, it is considered 'infectious'


              From day 1
              while breastfeeding (for mom)
              mom should be taking high DHA fish oil as DHA is occurs in
              greater amounts than EPA in the foods humans eat.
              plenty of vitamin K from animal products, fermented foods, vegetables
              sufficient preformed Vitamin A from food and supplements combined (250-300 IU per day),
              or a monthly 10,000 IU dose of preformed A, or eat liver once a month.
              no cod liver oil - it contains too much Vitamin A in ratio to D and most often
              too little DHA in ratio to EPA. One exception: Carlson Cod Liver oil, 1-3 tsp depending
              on Vitamin A in other supplements/foods. Factor the Vitamin D in to daily totals as well.
              A total of 2500 IU vitamin A is appropriate. Subject to change as new data emerges.
              take 1000 IU D3 per 25 lbs body weight per day on days that you cannot get midday,
              summer, full body, unprotected sun exposure to the point just before a burn occurs.
              At 33ºN, summer is mid-may thru mid-sept (16 weeks)
              At 33ºN, summer is june thru august (12 weeks)
              At 42º N, summer is mid-June thru mid-August. (8 weeks)
              altitude also has influence (higher altitude = more possibility of D production)
              At all latitudes and altitudes, Vitamin D deficiency is a problem in our modern world
              unless getting daily or near daily midday, summer, unprotected, full body sun to the point just
              before a burn occurs.

              Vitamin D Dosing, Levels and Testing information
              http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AV...A0d3BjMw&hl=en

              while breastfeeding (for baby)
              Vitamin D drops: 400 IU per 10 lbs body weight on days that baby cannot get midday
              summer, unprotected, full body sun to the point just before a burn would occur
              Do not give cod liver oil - it contains too much Vitamin A in ratio to D and most often
              too little DHA in ratio to EPA
              Even modest amounts of dietary A can magnify D insufficiency and deficiency
              Countries that routinely supplement with cod liver oil have very high fracture rates among
              other problems that are likely caused by an intake of A too high in relation to D status.

              see link above for citation regarding infant/child dosing


              Four Months
              continue breastfeeding
              continue nutritional supplements for mom
              continue vitamin D for baby

              Egg and Liver Feeding
              ☐ daily: an egg yolk per day with a tsp of grated frozen liver
              ☐ important: freeze liver for 14 days prior to using
              boil egg for 3.5 minutes, open it, scrape yolk into a little dish
              use microplane grater or similar to grate 1 tsp liver into the yolk
              feed baby
              ☐ supplies cholesterol and sulphur-containing amino acids both are important
              for optimal brain development
              yolk types in order of preference
              →from pasture-fed hens (flax, insects etc insure excellent fatty acid,
              vitamin A and lutein content)

              from high DHA organic free range eggs
              from organic free range eggs
              from high DHA eggs
              egg white contains proteins that are allergenic and difficult to digest
              delay feeding egg yolk until 12 months


              Six Months
              continue the above and attempt to add.....
              Organ Meats
              soft organ meats and marrow, typically t
              raditional populations in Italy
              Japan, South and Central
              America and Africa start infants on
              liver and
              brain when they are available.
              do what you can



              Ten Months
              plain yogurt to familiarize baby with sour taste -
              do not sweeten no matter what. It may take 20-30 tries before it's accepted.
              meats (boiled or stewed are best....long cooking times, low temps)
              fish (sardines or mackerel are ideal as is wild salmon)
              fruit (banana, avocado, pear, apple etc)
              vegetables (broccoli, kale, collards, green beans, etc)
              fermented foods in addition to yogurt: sauerkraut etc

              One Year
              whole eggs
              whole milk
              other fruits and vegetables not added at 10 months
              fish if not introduced at 10 months
              other foods listed above

              General
              little amylase is produced before the end of the first year
              amylase is required for the breakdown of starches
              lactase is produced in abundance to digest lactose, the primary
              carbohydrate in breastmilk (which is also the primary macro
              nutrient)
              zinc, iron, vitamin A, vitamin D and B vitamins, and Ω3 fatty
              acids are the most important ones for cognitive development and
              should be the focus of infant feeding.
              animal foods supply zinc, iron, A, and in fatty fish, vitamin D
              is supplied as well
              infant growth is heavily dependent on calcium, phosphorus, protein

              Formula Recipes
              true insufficient supply is not common, but deserves attention
              http://www.westonaprice.org/Recipes-...mula.html#eyfb
              http://www.beinghealthynaturally.com...antformula.php

              http://www.beinghealthynaturally.com...ntformula2.php
              http://www.beinghealthynaturally.com...ntformula3.php
              http://www.beinghealthynaturally.com...ntformula4.php


              This document was compiled from the following as well as from many other resources over time
              http://www.hpakids.org/holistic-heal...Feeding-Babies
              http://www.westonaprice.org/Recipes-...mula.html#eyfb
              Last edited by cillakat; 05-25-2010, 07:55 AM. Reason: grammar and formatting



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              • #8
                Sorry i know this is an old thread but I was looking for anyone who had babies and children who were primal from the get go.
                Most people here in the U.K still wean with milky baby rice and then on to pureed pear or apple. In France though I believe they wean with pureed veg first as then babies are less fussy and have less of a sweet tooth. Purees aren't primal though, can't see Grok getting out his primal vitamix
                My cousin did baby lead weaning but that seem to consist of her kids running around with bits of bread an butter in their mouths and smearing on it everyone else around them. It was utter chaos!
                I would love to know about weaning and other baby care the primal way, has anyone else read the continuum concept?

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                • #9
                  my kid has been paleo since he was two. he was breastfed until he was 3. And he always just eats what we eat. The only difference between his diet and ours -- he gets raw yogurt.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Apples4Jam View Post
                    Sorry i know this is an old thread but I was looking for anyone who had babies and children who were primal from the get go.
                    Most people here in the U.K still wean with milky baby rice and then on to pureed pear or apple. In France though I believe they wean with pureed veg first as then babies are less fussy and have less of a sweet tooth. Purees aren't primal though, can't see Grok getting out his primal vitamix
                    My cousin did baby lead weaning but that seem to consist of her kids running around with bits of bread an butter in their mouths and smearing on it everyone else around them. It was utter chaos!
                    I would love to know about weaning and other baby care the primal way, has anyone else read the continuum concept?
                    Knifegill and my little one is 8 months, and has been Primal from before he was even conceived. He has a lot of food sensitivities, though. When he was 3 months old, I ended up eliminating everything except sweet potatoes, rice, lamb, turkey, duck, coconut oil and pears. He went from a constantly cranky/needy/always crying/couldn't be put down baby, to a happy baby. I've been slowly introducing more foods into my diet, but he can't tolerate a lot of the traditional First Foods, even in my breast milk--such as egg yokes and yogurt (even sheep and goat yogurt). We let him have tastes of bone broth, pureed chicken and coconut water when he was 5-6 months old, and he loved eating them. But, we had to stop because it caused barfing, crankiness and constipation. Now when we give him those foods, they don't adversely affect him, but he doesn't care to eat them. So, our "weaning" is still not happening. Don't quite know if we should encourage it more, or trust his system... Thankfully, I make a lot of milk...

                    Sorry I can't help, but I'd like to see what others have to say!

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Apples4Jam View Post
                      I would love to know about weaning and other baby care the primal way, has anyone else read the continuum concept?
                      No to cc for me. In terms of weaning, we made mashed potatoes and cooked carrots, mashed and forzen in ice-cube boxes. As the kids kids got older, just introducing more tastes like cheese sauce, kumara, pate,

                      It's hard to say how this is different from how anybody else would do it, but because of our scottish ancestry, we're never bought pre-made foods, we made ours in batches.

                      And not having lots of crackers/bread, although we're not nazis about preventing the kids from eating that stuff when we're eating somewhere else (there's just none in the house).
                      Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

                      Griff's cholesterol primer
                      5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
                      Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
                      TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
                      bloodorchid is always right

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                      • #12
                        Grok would not have had a vitamix, but I believe that mothers would chew the food for the baby.
                        Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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