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gaining fat AND losing muscle on paleo

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  • #16
    Whatever you decide, listen to your own body (and scale) more than what some Diet Dogma tells you is *supposed* to be working. You'll even notice on this forum everyone is following their own plan, constantly twerking, because there is no One Right Way.


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    • #17
      I agree with moluv.... To a degree. You need to figure out what works for you, but you should follow a certain way of eating for at least a few weeks to see if it works. If not, tweak again.

      Also, if it is relevant at all... Here is my personal experience on plant fats:
      -every time I add nuts in I stall weightloss or (if I eat more than 1-2 servings) I get fatter.
      -the period of time where I changed nothing except I ate a whole avocado instead of eggs for snack i gained fat. Once I cut it and went back to animal fats I leaned out again.
      -I stopped counting calories for the first time in 2 years after cutting out all plant fats except coconut oil/cream and maintained leanness.
      -I gained fat when I ate "healthy" combo of quinoa/corn/tons of veggies/ 1tbs olive oil/half an avocado/some chicken and tuna... While working out. I lost fat when I participated in the steak & eggs challenge on tons of butter/6+ eggs a day/fatty steak and nothing else.
      ------
      HCLF: lean red meat, eggs, low-fat dairy, bone broth/gelatin, fruits, seafood, liver, small amount of starch (oatmeal, white rice, potatoes, carrots), small amount of saturated fat (butter/ghee/coconut/dark chocolate/cheese).

      My Journal: gelatin experiments, vanity pictures, law school rants, recipe links


      Food blog: GELATIN and BONE BROTH recipes

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      • #18
        Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
        TV's don't cause weight gain, couches do. But that's neither here nor there. Medications that interfere with metabolism and satiety signaling hormones can cause weight gain. Yes, through the mechanism of CICO.

        I also don't think your characterization of how and when warnings are mandated on drugs is accurate.

        It's not about blaming external factors, it's about acknowledging their contribution to a problem and deciding if they are worth continuing in light of their effects, or whether their unwanted effects can be worked around.
        We're not going to come to an agreement here. I've taken a lot of medications like this myself, and the idea of a doctor lying to a patient about what the medication can and cannot do is repugnant. You may have a different opinion, but doctors shouldn't be lying to patients.

        When all is said and done, lying to the patient about what a drug can and cannot do is one of the more irresponsible things that doctors in routine practice do. Patients aren't necessarily going to be in a position where they understand the intricacies of the medications they're being offered. And by lying to the patient about the nature of the side effects, the doctor is taking the power to avoid the side effects away from the patient.

        This isn't a side effect that a patient is going to be unable to monitor and cope with like some of the medication metabolism issues that crop up, this is something that patients can manage on their own when provided with accurate information. And it's intellectually dishonest to suggest that metabolism changes are just in response to medication. A person's metabolic rate is constantly changing over the course of his life, in response to things like temperature changes and food intake. Holding medication to a higher standard than other causes of metabolic change is absurd.

        In the case of the OP, she's trying to do the right thing, and people are suggesting the medication is to blame. The medication isn't likely to blame, and placing blame on that is, at best, going to lead to a sense of hopelessness. Now, it might be the case that there's something going on here that she can't deal with, but until other options have been exhausted, it's premature to blame the medication.

        As far as warnings go, during drug trials the researchers don't always know what is and isn't the result of the medication. Trials aren't done on people that are locked up on a research facility, so there's no way of determining what precisely it is that the subjects are coming into contact. Consequently, a lot of those warnings don't necessarily apply if you're using the medication properly or are the result of some quirk in genetics that only apply to a small group of people.

        If you choose to believe that conveying to patients that a pill is going to do this to them is appropriate medically, that's your prerogative. Just don't insult folks intelligence by rationalizing why this is somehow magically different than the other myriad ways in which ones can wind up being overweight. It all comes down to proper diet and exercise, the pill is just a convenient fixation.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by eKatherine View Post
          What you are saying seems to be that if most people who take a particular medication end up putting on weight, that it's the fault of the all those people and has nothing to do with the drug, right? I would disagree that this is something that we should deliberately discount.

          The human body is not a closed system. It is a delicate biochemical system with myriad of interrelated subsystems that can be easily set out of kilter in many different ways by unintended consequences of medications.
          Essentially all drugs were the weight gain is listed as a side effect, is because it either stimulates hunger or suppresses satiety. Ergo you put on weight because you are eating too much. They don't alter fat metabolism or anything.
          http://lifemutt.blogspot.sg/ - Gaming, Food Reviews and Life in Singapore

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          • #20
            If avocados caused inflammation, my CRP would have been high. It's not, and I often eat one a day.
            Crohn's, doing SCD

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            • #21
              Originally posted by hedwards View Post
              We're not going to come to an agreement here.
              Obviously. You're more interested in spewing vitriol and histrionics than having a discussion.

              Originally posted by hedwards View Post
              I've taken a lot of medications like this myself, and the idea of a doctor lying to a patient about what the medication can and cannot do is repugnant. You may have a different opinion, but doctors shouldn't be lying to patients.
              Not sure what this is in reference to. What part of what I said reads to you as "It's ok for doctors to lie to patients?" WTF?!

              Originally posted by hedwards View Post
              When all is said and done, lying to the patient about what a drug can and cannot do is one of the more irresponsible things that doctors in routine practice do. Patients aren't necessarily going to be in a position where they understand the intricacies of the medications they're being offered. And by lying to the patient about the nature of the side effects, the doctor is taking the power to avoid the side effects away from the patient.
              Again, WTF are you talking about?

              Originally posted by hedwards View Post
              This isn't a side effect that a patient is going to be unable to monitor and cope with like some of the medication metabolism issues that crop up, this is something that patients can manage on their own when provided with accurate information.
              Are you claiming to know about the nature of the side effects of the medication in question? Please cite your sources so we can all learn from them. Because I certainly wasn't making any such claims.

              Originally posted by hedwards View Post
              And it's intellectually dishonest to suggest that metabolism changes are just in response to medication.
              And that was suggested by who? I don't know who you're arguing with, but it doesn't seem to be me. Voices in your head?

              Originally posted by hedwards View Post
              A person's metabolic rate is constantly changing over the course of his life, in response to things like temperature changes and food intake.
              Yes, that's very true.

              Originally posted by hedwards View Post
              Holding medication to a higher standard than other causes of metabolic change is absurd.
              And now you've lost me. This appears to be a non-sequitur. Do you want there to be a warning label on the weather forecast or something?

              Originally posted by hedwards View Post
              In the case of the OP, she's trying to do the right thing, and people are suggesting the medication is to blame. The medication isn't likely to blame, and placing blame on that is, at best, going to lead to a sense of hopelessness.
              Better to tell her she's weak-willed or genetically predisposed to being fat and hide the fact that a potential side effect of her medication may be weight gain? How about giving her all the information we have available and allowing (or even helping) her to figure out a course of action? It's not okay for doctors to lie, but its okay for strangers on the internet?

              Originally posted by hedwards View Post
              Now, it might be the case that there's something going on here that she can't deal with, but until other options have been exhausted, it's premature to blame the medication.
              Pointing out that weight gain is a potential side effect of a certain medication is not the same as blaming medication. You're jumping to conclusions.

              Originally posted by hedwards View Post
              As far as warnings go, during drug trials the researchers don't always know what is and isn't the result of the medication. Trials aren't done on people that are locked up on a research facility, so there's no way of determining what precisely it is that the subjects are coming into contact. Consequently, a lot of those warnings don't necessarily apply if you're using the medication properly or are the result of some quirk in genetics that only apply to a small group of people.
              That's not the same thing as saying someone who injures himself during a trial will result in the medication ever carrying a warning of bruising. Can you see that? Is any of this getting through?

              Originally posted by hedwards View Post
              If you choose to believe that conveying to patients that a pill is going to do this to them is appropriate medically, that's your prerogative. Just don't insult folks intelligence by rationalizing why this is somehow magically different than the other myriad ways in which ones can wind up being overweight. It all comes down to proper diet and exercise, the pill is just a convenient fixation.
              So if I take radioactive iodine, kill my thyroid, and choose not to supplement thyroid hormones, resulting in my metabolism dropping through the floor, it's my diet and exercise to blame when I get fat, not the fact that I killed my thyroid? You realize you're making absurd claims and arguments, right?
              The Champagne of Beards

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              • #22
                Originally posted by fixie
                as much as i encourage discussions and feisty attempts at debunking each others arguments, maybe somebody could say something which relates to my original question? i mean, is the zoloft doing something to my hormonal household which makes any attempt at eating right in order to lose fat and cycle at a high pace for several hours 2/3 times a week (and maybe gain muscle)? and i don't sit on my couch very often btw.
                Let me google that for you
                The Champagne of Beards

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
                  Kinda snarky but also HOW DID YOU DO THAT


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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by moluv View Post
                    Kinda snarky but also HOW DID YOU DO THAT


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                    It's easy!

                    Check it out.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Mr. Anthony View Post
                      It's easy!

                      Check it out.
                      Well played, Mr. A.
                      The Champagne of Beards

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Mr. Anthony View Post
                        It's easy!

                        Check it out.
                        Real f*ckin funny


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                        • #27
                          I tried to resist. I really did.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Mr. Anthony View Post
                            I tried to resist. I really did.
                            I tried to use if for a comeback but I can't hyperlink from my phone

                            You win x 2


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                            • #29
                              i was here for losing .....but this topic gaining weight on paleo. while i found paleo is very popular among teenagers also for weight loss.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by AMonkey View Post
                                Essentially all drugs were the weight gain is listed as a side effect, is because it either stimulates hunger or suppresses satiety. Ergo you put on weight because you are eating too much. They don't alter fat metabolism or anything.
                                Some just make you more sluggish. You still take in as much food, you just expend less. You have to be conscious of it and eat a bit smarter if you think the benefits of the medication out way the negatives, otherwise you'll gain weight. Or you can just blame the doctor and government and not take any responsibility for your own decisions.

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