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  • #76
    Originally posted by bbaker6212 View Post
    My point is that your body stores orders of magnitude more calories in adipose tissue than glycogen. Why do you think that is? Glycogen is for emergency use (fight or flight) and/or when the rate of energy needed requires anaerobic metabolism. It's the after-burner. Yes, more efficient but for short bursts of energy. Fat is the preferred energy storage for long-term energy. It's irrelevant IMO how fast fat is metabolized/oxidized. It's not meant to be used quickly.

    And isn't it self evident that when you don't eat, whether short term, or long term (starvation), that fat oxidation takes place? That's the whole purpose of storing energy in adipose tissue!
    Glucose is needed in every cell of the body, hardly utilized only for "short bursts". And, if that were the case, why does fat oxidation utilize your stress hormones(fight or flight) to operate? Lipolysis(adrenaline) is used to provide fatty acids, which, in starvation become the preferred fuel for cellular respiration. It uses beta-oxidation of fatty acids to provide fuel for the liver, which can trigger ketogenesis, creating ketone bodies out of the fatty acids. Fatty acids and ketone bodies inhibit the oxidation of glucose to spare glucose to the brain. It also inhibits PDH to spare precursors for gluconeogenesis(cortisol).

    It also happens when you eat a fat heavy meal. It's called Randle cycle.
    Make America Great Again

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    • #77
      Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
      Those things have near no nutrients, not sure what you're implying.
      Please tell me you are not implying that Olive Oil has no beneficial nutrients.
      I'm sure you have heard of Essential Fatty Acids (Omeg-3,6,9 EFA's), right? Note the word "ESSENTIAL"... that means you would die without them. I think that qualifies them as a nutrients! Not to mention the polyphenols and antioxidants. Additionally, try eating a fat-free diet. You, or a rat, will quickly die. Now, eat a sugar or carb free diet. No death. Because there are no "essential" sugars or carbs. There is no RDA for sugar or carbs. geez, this is not rocket science.

      Olive Oil nutrients:
      - saturated 14 g
      - monounsaturated 73 g
      - polyunsaturated 11 g
      - omega‑3 fat <1.5 g
      - omega‑6 fat 3.521 g
      Protein 0 g
      Vitamin E 14 mg (93%)
      Vitamin K 62 μg (59%)

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      • #78
        And if you look at quality butter or tallow it's even far better.

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        • #79
          Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
          Glucose is needed in every cell of the body, hardly utilized only for "short bursts".
          I said glycogen is needed for short bursts, not glucose. Any amount of *glucose* required by the body is made by the body. If this were not the case then people would die on a ketogenic diet, which is certainly not the case. Dietary glucose is not a requirement for life, period, full stop.

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          • #80
            Originally posted by bbaker6212 View Post
            I said glycogen is needed for short bursts, not glucose. Any amount of *glucose* required by the body is made by the body. If this were not the case then people would die on a ketogenic diet, which is certainly not the case. Dietary glucose is not a requirement for life, period, full stop.
            Btw, and all I'm talking about is what's required for life. I'm not claiming a ketogenic diet is optimal or even a low carb diet. The original point I was making is that sugar is NOT healthy. It's caloric and void of beneficial nutrients and certainly worse than many fats.

            I think 80-150 grams of carbs per day is probably enough for most people. I would not use sugar as my primary form of carbs. There are ton's of better choices.

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            • #81
              Originally posted by bbaker6212 View Post
              Please tell me you are not implying that Olive Oil has no beneficial nutrients.
              I'm sure you have heard of Essential Fatty Acids (Omeg-3,6,9 EFA's), right? Note the word "ESSENTIAL"... that means you would die without them. I think that qualifies them as a nutrients! Not to mention the polyphenols and antioxidants. Additionally, try eating a fat-free diet. You, or a rat, will quickly die. Now, eat a sugar or carb free diet. No death. Because there are no "essential" sugars or carbs. There is no RDA for sugar or carbs. geez, this is not rocket science.

              Olive Oil nutrients:
              - saturated 14 g
              - monounsaturated 73 g
              - polyunsaturated 11 g
              - omega‑3 fat <1.5 g
              - omega‑6 fat 3.5–21 g
              Protein 0 g
              Vitamin E 14 mg (93%)
              Vitamin K 62 μg (59%)
              lol

              Unsaturated fatty acids: Nutritionally essential, or toxic?

              That's an absurd amount of olive oil, btw. Over 7tsp and 900 calories for 14mg of vitamin e?
              Make America Great Again

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              • #82
                Originally posted by bbaker6212 View Post
                I said glycogen is needed for short bursts, not glucose. Any amount of *glucose* required by the body is made by the body. If this were not the case then people would die on a ketogenic diet, which is certainly not the case. Dietary glucose is not a requirement for life, period, full stop.
                Fat isn't needed either. You synthesize fat from excessive carbohydrates. The amount of fat needed is still infinitely small. It's about 0.4% of your bw for optimal sex hormone production and fat soluble vitamins.

                The difference is, you're not running on stress hormones permanently.
                Make America Great Again

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                • #83
                  Oh, and regarding "essential" fatty acids, when your body is "deficient" in them, it will synthesize mead acid to perform all the "necessary" functions.
                  Make America Great Again

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                  • #84
                    LOL.... so the fiber thread somehow morphed into the carb vs fat thread part 2,674?

                    bbaker I'm a high fat eater so you are not alone, but this is a debate that has been had umpteen times on hundreds of threads. In fact every thread becomes the same one lately. You have valid points. I'm just posting to let you know there are many here still eating that way and doing very well. For me though these "debates" have degraded into a choreographed dance. We are no longer really advancing one another's knowledge in a meaningful way. Maybe its because none of us really have anything new to say or of real importance to share beyond what we already have. Or maybe I'm just getting tired of the same old same old.

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                    • #85
                      You want to point out what valid points he had? All he basically said was the human body is resilient and adaptive. This is true, we've evolved for a reason.
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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
                        LOL.... so the fiber thread somehow morphed into the carb vs fat thread part 2,674?

                        bbaker I'm a high fat eater so you are not alone, but this is a debate that has been had umpteen times on hundreds of threads. In fact every thread becomes the same one lately. You have valid points. I'm just posting to let you know there are many here still eating that way and doing very well. For me though these "debates" have degraded into a choreographed dance. We are no longer really advancing one another's knowledge in a meaningful way. Maybe its because none of us really have anything new to say or of real importance to share beyond what we already have. Or maybe I'm just getting tired of the same old same old.
                        That my friend was very well put!
                        Recent Blog: http://www.peakperformanceradio.net/...y-john-saville

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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by bbaker6212 View Post
                          Please tell me you are not implying that Olive Oil has no beneficial nutrients.
                          I'm sure you have heard of Essential Fatty Acids (Omeg-3,6,9 EFA's), right? Note the word "ESSENTIAL"... that means you would die without them. I think that qualifies them as a nutrients! Not to mention the polyphenols and antioxidants. Additionally, try eating a fat-free diet. You, or a rat, will quickly die. Now, eat a sugar or carb free diet. No death. Because there are no "essential" sugars or carbs. There is no RDA for sugar or carbs. geez, this is not rocket science.

                          Olive Oil nutrients:
                          - saturated 14 g
                          - monounsaturated 73 g
                          - polyunsaturated 11 g
                          - omega‑3 fat <1.5 g
                          - omega‑6 fat 3.521 g
                          Protein 0 g
                          Vitamin E 14 mg (93%)
                          Vitamin K 62 μg (59%)
                          "Essential fatty acids" is a trademark coined from a study, what, 40-50 years ago, that was later proven to be a vitamin B deficiency and not an omega deficiency? The term "essential fatty acid" was coopted by the seed oil industry to try and promote their oils as healthy versus traditional animal-based fats. The funny thing is, EFA's aren't actually essential.

                          I am absolutely comparing white sugar to olive oil. They're both empty calories. Except white sugar is less fattening, and in the event it is stored as fat you get mostly SFA generated with some MUFA, unlike olive oil which is almost all unsaturated fat, a much lower quality energy source. Both should be avoided in lieu of real food.

                          Do you know what is more nutritious than butter? Every single grain. And that's not saying much.
                          Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
                            lol

                            Unsaturated fatty acids: Nutritionally essential, or toxic?

                            That's an absurd amount of olive oil, btw. Over 7tsp and 900 calories for 14mg of vitamin e?
                            You will note that I never said that olive oil was nutrient *dense*, but by comparison to sugar, it is.
                            How much vitamin-e does sugar have? Zero. How much of any of these other nutrients? None.
                            Rather than address the EFA's in the oil, you just pick out the vitamin-e?... as if vitamins are the only things that constitutes nutrients. You really will go to any length to try to support your weak argument.

                            I'm starting to get the impression that you just like arguing rather than trying to learn something. As such, I think I may be wasting my time so don't see the point in further discussing this.

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                            • #89
                              Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                              "Essential fatty acids" is a trademark coined from a study, what, 40-50 years ago, that was later proven to be a vitamin B deficiency and not an omega deficiency? The term "essential fatty acid" was coopted by the seed oil industry to try and promote their oils as healthy versus traditional animal-based fats. The funny thing is, EFA's aren't actually essential.

                              I am absolutely comparing white sugar to olive oil. They're both empty calories. Except white sugar is less fattening, and in the event it is stored as fat you get mostly SFA generated with some MUFA, unlike olive oil which is almost all unsaturated fat, a much lower quality energy source. Both should be avoided in lieu of real food.

                              Do you know what is more nutritious than butter? Every single grain. And that's not saying much.
                              Nice opinion. Where's the data? Where is the evidence that EFA's are not actually essential?
                              I just gave you a list of the nutrients in OO yet you still deny it. So you're either blind or stupid.

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                              • #90
                                You don't need any vitamin e, if you keep PUFA, a fat, low. Besides, plenty of fruits contain ample amounts of vitamin e. My argument isn't weak, you haven't addressed any of it. Thou shalt not commit logical fallacy, in your case, personal incredulity.
                                Make America Great Again

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