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  • #31
    Originally posted by oxide View Post
    Was that sarcasm? Excellent! That means that renaming your diet won't be a semantic tragedy at all, right? Whatever will you do? Well, you could re-name your diet, which your sarcasm suggests would be not a semantic tragedy, but a piece of potato cake.

    OK then. After a quick Google search, almost EVERY diet wants to be "whole and unprocessed." But on carb level, it seems like Perfect Health (of course), Jumpstart to Skinny, Relish (maybe), Eat for your body type (Ectomorph), the Eating Clean Diet,* and maybe some others are a good match. Find a diet that matches what you are, and just stick it in the post somewhere.

    Example: "Hey, Newbie, you need to eat more carbs as rice and potatoes because that's what worked for me. And oh by the way, I'm not really Primal. I'm on this Primal Forum just for fun. Fooled ya! I'm actually Eating Clean! "

    That's all I ask.


    --------------
    *Which, by the way, I tried for a month and gained 3 pounds on. And Eating Clean's leader, Tosca Reno, feels so good about herself on this diet that she actively supports plastic surgery. Her books are full of Tosca pix artfully staged to show off her boob job.
    My point is, at the risk of sounding brash, who gives a shit? I'm pretty sure a large majority of this forum would agree that the carb curve is a bit outdated. Just because someone doesn't follow the book exactly does not mean they can't call their diet 'Primal' (why anyone actually cares what their diet is called is another topic).

    To me, this forum is much more than a 'Primal' forum, and it would be quite dry if everyone played by your rules.
    My nutrition/fitness/critical thinking blog:

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by oxide View Post
      Was that sarcasm? Excellent! That means that renaming your diet won't be a semantic tragedy at all, right? Whatever will you do? Well, you could re-name your diet, which your sarcasm suggests would be not a semantic tragedy, but a piece of potato cake.

      OK then. After a quick Google search, almost EVERY diet wants to be "whole and unprocessed." But on carb level, it seems like Perfect Health (of course), Jumpstart to Skinny, Relish (maybe), Eat for your body type (Ectomorph), the Eating Clean Diet,* and maybe some others are a good match. Find a diet that matches what you are, and just stick it in the post somewhere.

      Example: "Hey, Newbie, you need to eat more carbs as rice and potatoes because that's what worked for me. And oh by the way, I'm not really Primal. I'm on this Primal Forum just for fun. Fooled ya! I'm actually Eating Clean! "

      That's all I ask.


      --------------
      *Which, by the way, I tried for a month and gained 3 pounds on. And Eating Clean's leader, Tosca Reno, feels so good about herself on this diet that she actively supports plastic surgery. Her books are full of Tosca pix artfully staged to show off her boob job.
      You're 42 years old. Maybe you should move on from the childish playground school club mentality. No one should honestly give a shit, and perhaps they'll do better off thinking for themselves. If Mark's book, which you take as gospel, without doing much thinking for yourself(your progress doesn't say much either, for someone that seems hellbent on defending all obese middle aged women) it should speak for itself.

      VLC is a fad, you're ridiculous, here is some VLC paleo trashing:

      Paleo Fantasies: Debunking The Carnivore Ape Narrative | Melissa McEwen on food anthropology, economics, and culture
      Make America Great Again

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by oxide View Post
        Well, you could re-name your diet
        Originally posted by oxide View Post
        Find a diet that matches what you are, and just stick it in the post somewhere.
        I am on the "Eat Foods I Enjoy in Moderation because I am Not Orthorexic" diet.

        Let's call it EFIEM-NO. I like it.
        Dark chocolate and coffee, running through my veins...

        Fitocracy Workout Tracker:
        https://www.fitocracy.com/profile/Shadowknight137/?feed
        MFP Food Diary:
        http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/diary/Shadowknight137
        (Date is New Zealand Time UTC+ 12hours)

        Comment


        • #34
          So old folks need to move on from the play ground so you can have it to yourself.
          My success is the "last" 10 pounds. I know full well that this isn't very impressive, so a year ago I enlisted a co-worker as a more dramatic test case. He was overweight despite 15 years of serious biking and weight lifting -- you know, lots of "calories out." He went primal with some reluctance and lost 45 pounds.

          I really don't know what to do. I wasn't expecting such resistance to quoting primal principles on a primal forum.
          5'0" female, 45 years old. Started Primal October 31, 2011, at a skinny fat 111.5 lbs. Low weight: 99.5 lb on a fast. Gained back to 115(!) on SAD chocolate, potato chips, and stress. Currently 111.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by jakejoh10 View Post
            My point is, at the risk of sounding brash, who gives a shit? I'm pretty sure a large majority of this forum would agree that the carb curve is a bit outdated. Just because someone doesn't follow the book exactly does not mean they can't call their diet 'Primal' (why anyone actually cares what their diet is called is another topic).

            To me, this forum is much more than a 'Primal' forum, and it would be quite dry if everyone played by your rules.
            I don't know what the rules of the forum are, but I would hope that defending primal principles didn't break any rules on a primal forum. Who gives a shit? Well, Mark has said that he gives a shit, and wants to help ten million people.

            If you think that a large majority of the forum doesn't like the carb curve, then post a poll and let's find out.

            If the forum is more than primal for you, well great. Simply say that in your posts. Example: "hi, I'm not really primal but I'm on a primal forum for[list reason.]".
            5'0" female, 45 years old. Started Primal October 31, 2011, at a skinny fat 111.5 lbs. Low weight: 99.5 lb on a fast. Gained back to 115(!) on SAD chocolate, potato chips, and stress. Currently 111.

            Comment


            • #36
              here, linux

              http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread17722.html

              The New Chowstalker

              portable - Chowstalker
              beautiful
              yeah you are

              Baby if you time travel back far enough you can avoid that work because the dust won't be there. You're too pretty to be working that hard.
              lol

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by jakejoh10 View Post
                I'm pretty sure a large majority of this forum would agree that the carb curve is a bit outdated
                It should probably be a 3D plot with axis X = carbs*, axis Y = fat** and axis Z = activity level***

                * there are so many different types ...
                ** there are so many different types, could ignore omg6 PUFAs as they are pro-inflammatory (not good for fat loss)
                *** not differentiating between HIIT or more cardio-like WO, makes it too complicated ...

                I am not sure how this curve would look like if one solely sticked to the Perfect Health Diet though ... lots of confounding stuff behind this simple curve ...

                Comment


                • #38
                  To the OP, the first few weeks are quite difficult, so you definitely need to prepare and pack appropriate snacks to overcome that hurdle, especially since you are on the road so often. Weight loss is definitely due to caloric intake, but you need to take into consideration other things (vitamins, minerals, etc). Also, a 100 calorie snack that is all carbs won't hold you over like a 100 calorie snack that is mostly fat. For example, an hour after eating a donut you will be craving something else, but an hour after a handful of walnuts is way more helpful in keeping the calorie count down.

                  Originally posted by oxide View Post
                  I don't know what the rules of the forum are, but I would hope that defending primal principles didn't break any rules on a primal forum. Who gives a shit? Well, Mark has said that he gives a shit, and wants to help ten million people.

                  If you think that a large majority of the forum doesn't like the carb curve, then post a poll and let's find out.

                  If the forum is more than primal for you, well great. Simply say that in your posts. Example: "hi, I'm not really primal but I'm on a primal forum for[list reason.]".
                  You should realize you are the one that has a semantics issue. Please realize people are different, with different metabolisms, and different cultures that cater to different diets...ie, some people can handle dairy and others can't; some cultures are more rice dependent vs other cultures, etc. I am grateful for Mark's site but you need to chill with the bible-thumping and casting slight deviants of the Primal word as evil.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    CICO is a slight deviant?

                    I give up.

                    You all wore me out.

                    Have at it.
                    5'0" female, 45 years old. Started Primal October 31, 2011, at a skinny fat 111.5 lbs. Low weight: 99.5 lb on a fast. Gained back to 115(!) on SAD chocolate, potato chips, and stress. Currently 111.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by kiks View Post
                      You should realize you are the one that has a semantics issue. Please realize people are different, with different metabolisms, and different cultures that cater to different diets...ie, some people can handle dairy and others can't; some cultures are more rice dependent vs other cultures, etc. I am grateful for Mark's site but you need to chill with the bible-thumping and casting slight deviants of the Primal word as evil.
                      Originally posted by oxide View Post
                      I give up.

                      You all wore me out.

                      Have at it.
                      Your sig:

                      "MY PRIMAL: I (try to) follow by-the-book primal as advocated by Mark Sisson, except for whey powder and a bit of cream. I aim for 80-90 g carb/day and advocate a two-month strict adjustment for newbies. But everybody is different and other need to tweak Primal to their own needs."


                      Most people on this forum do just that; we tweak "Primal" to our own needs. Some enjoy more carbs, others prefer less. YMMV. I don't see the problem here.
                      Dark chocolate and coffee, running through my veins...

                      Fitocracy Workout Tracker:
                      https://www.fitocracy.com/profile/Shadowknight137/?feed
                      MFP Food Diary:
                      http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/diary/Shadowknight137
                      (Date is New Zealand Time UTC+ 12hours)

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
                        LOL, you won't win. Fat is magickal and as long as you never eat carbs, you can drink coconut oil all day long. Bottoms up!
                        +1. Bottoms up !

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          I would suggest reading "It Starts With Food" and giving the Whole 30 a shot. Regardless of where you stand on the evil of grains, the book does a good job of explaining why we still feel hungry when we eat food that is less nutritious and why we feel satisfied when our bodies are getting sufficient nutrients. The Whole 30 part is basically an experiment you do on your own body so you dont have to rely on what all of the experts say on a forum.

                          I found a couple of simpe statements especially helpful. The first was the idea that everything we put in our mouths makes us more healthy or less healthy. There is no Switzerland. So sure, we can shoot for a calorie deficit eating Big Macs but we all know those patties arent making us healthier regardless of whether we find a way to lose weight doing it.

                          The second concept was not to snack. Eat 2 or 3 meals a day that include protein, lots of veggies when possible and some healthy fat. Snacking is a habit. So it's great when you have your lunch box with healthy things in it but when you run out you are going to grab whatever you can because you are in the habit of snacking, i.e. donut.

                          Once the whole 30 is done you can start to add things back in but hopefully the habit of eating good meals is solid. Then you can decide if you think you are ok eating rice or not. I found that eating solid, healthy meals kept me from wanting to stop for junk.

                          In my experience, the calorie in calorie out thing is a dangerous code to live by. Sure, you will likely lose weight if you eat less than you burn but there are two problems when that food is fast food. First, obviously, the food isnt that healthy and you arent getting the nutrients you need. Now I know the poster above isnt talking about only eating fast food but rather eating it when you dont have choices. The problem with his method is, not many people can eat that food and stay in calorie deficit. Primarily because when most people eat those foods they are not satisfied and they feel like they need to eat more food. I know personally I would have a terrible time trying to eat that way. If I start eating at a fast food joint I just want to keep eating.

                          Give the book or at least the Whole 30 some consideration. Both helped me understand how I react to eating certain foods.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by oxide View Post
                            So old folks need to move on from the play ground so you can have it to yourself.
                            My success is the "last" 10 pounds. I know full well that this isn't very impressive, so a year ago I enlisted a co-worker as a more dramatic test case. He was overweight despite 15 years of serious biking and weight lifting -- you know, lots of "calories out." He went primal with some reluctance and lost 45 pounds.

                            I really don't know what to do. I wasn't expecting such resistance to quoting primal principles on a primal forum.
                            Yeah, you can cut the nanny state bs, we don't need labels for everything for the poor "newbies"
                            Make America Great Again

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              I just find it hilarious that you could modify anything else about Primal -- add in some things (20% after all), remove some that you don't like -- but go over the holy carb curve and all of a sudden, "DO NOT PASS GO! DO NOT COLLECT $200"

                              It works for the sedentary (arguably) I guess, but the ones that push for higher carbs are also the ones that seem to do more activity and are passionate about performance. Be it heavy lifting or whatever else. 151g does not make a person obese because they passed over the limit.

                              That's why many find it outdated -- because it's not entirely realistic.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Calories in, calories out matters. End of story. PB's secret lies within that concept. Most people overeat carbs when they follow a standard American diet. Combine overeating carbs with high-fat foods and a sedentary lifestyle and what do you get? More calories in, than out, nutrient deficiencies, and metabolic trouble. A strict PB follower is getting more nutrient dense foods (helps control hunger/cravings for more food) and more exercise. What does that mean? More calories used for activity than are consumed.

                                Also, the shot at oxide's weight change over 2 years was rude and uncalled for. She's 5 feet tall. I'm sure she's actually experienced some body recomposition as my mom did which was obvious by weight stalls but inches still lost. Oxide, you obviously mean well but you've presented yourself like a zealot. Mark isn't a preacher and PB isn't the Bible. PB is a general guide to living a healthier life.

                                Regarding the Carb Curve: It's a GENERAL guideline! I'm around 5'10" and ~195-200 lbs (male). Low carb for me is a bit different than a 5 ft. tall woman. Yesterday, I had about 25 carbs and was in a calorie restricted state. It sucked trying to go to sleep with hunger cravings. Today, I'll have at LEAST 100 grams by the time it's all said and done. I had a long workout session of heavy compound exercises (in a fasted state) and refilling my glycogen stores for my next workout session is important for my performance.

                                To the original poster: Learn more and apply it. Rinse and repeat. Eat healthy nutrient dense foods that satisfy your hunger. Stay away from foods that lack nutrition (generally fast foods and sweets). Packing food will allow you to control the times that you eat each day. Eating at that same time each day will help your body regulate your hunger signals to those times.

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