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  • #31
    BigBipper, I respect you for your honesty, and there are a lot of people behind you here and want you to succeed. There are however some people in the world who aren't. Here is a rant about them.

    You mentioned that you are 'painfully addicted' to certain foods. That's exactly what the shareholders of many food manufacturers want you to be. Food companies employ TOP SCIENTISTS in order to make their products as addictive as possible. And it is a handful of manufacturers that are locked in a battle for one thing only - profit. Think of the average wealthy shareholder of a major food company, who is hugely wealthy, has a personal trainer, and doesn't feed him or herself one mouthful of the crap that they are selling to the average citizen for HUGE dollars. If this very real relationship doesn't become apparent to that average citizen, then they will go on to blame themselves, and only themselves, for their predicament, and probably keep abusing their bodies and binge eating as a result, because the more you resist something, the more it happens.

    In the western world we see ourselves as free and empowered, and in many ways we are, but it is quite amazing that our bodies can be hijacked in this way purely on account of profit. And the individual concerned can only look to themselves for the solution - for the cure. Although the foods manufactured are made to elicit a strong instinctual feeding response leading to addiction, the whole thing occurs in a legal grey area in which if you attempt to control what ingredients and techniques go into processed food, you end up potentially impinging on other civil liberties. In other words, the overweight-processed-food-eater is on their own. This is a free country. If you want to try to make the most addictive chocolate product you can conjure and sell it to people, good luck to you.

    You have to look at this clearly because the only answer is taking the power back for yourself. When that shareholder climbs into their Porsche, on the way to their next business lunch (at a high end restaurant that will serve mainly paleo/primal food, because thats what ALL of those restaurants serve), do you think that he/she gives one solitary damn about the consumer crying into a bag of chocolates that they can't stop eating? Well, only to the extent that it will affect their profits and reputation. If movements such as paleo/ancestral health begin to gain momentum and generate a larger voice, then yes they will start to care, because thats politics - thats how society works. But for the moment, generally they don't care because they don't need to.

    So we're in a shareholder's meeting that same afternoon after a tour of the factory floor of Super-chocoballs-r-us. Our shareholder is digesting the lunch of halibut and salad entree, followed by a medium rare steak (grass fed of course) served with wild mushrooms, a poached free range egg and some quite delicious sauerkraut, finished off with an espresso. No dessert of course - are you kidding? On a workday? Sugar? In the meeting the shareholder makes a few very salient points about maximising efficiency and also talks about the new advertising campaign, mentioning that they need to increase appeal to children. Its a great performance and everyone is in agreement. Just goes to show what a power lunch can do for you! Excellent! Another day another dollar.

    The end.
    Healthy is the new wealthy.

    http://www.facebook.com/groups/ances...handnutrition/

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Casey View Post

      One great piece of advice I heard was - when you get a craving/hunger pang, tell yourself you can have more meat! Any kind of meat! And if your brain says 'meh', then you aren't really hungry, it's just a craving.

      Hang in there. Move a little bit every day, but don't make it a 'thing'. Your body is exhausted - just continue feeding it good food and it will thank you.
      Thank you, Casey. I appreciate your input.
      Get busy Groking or get busy dying. That's damn right!

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by turquoisepassion View Post
        Keep a food log. There are some good apps out there with support systems between dieters, encouraging each other through the good and the bad.

        I don't always think food logging is the best way to go, but I think in your case it may help greatly. I like CalorieCount. It will keep you accountable of what you eat.

        Eta: don't worry about calories yet on the food log, just try to log everything you eat, and try to be primal.
        I have MyNetDiary on my iPhone. I think I should see what is really going down my throat and share as needed. Thanks for the suggestion.
        Get busy Groking or get busy dying. That's damn right!

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by teach2183 View Post
          Can you get your family on board (not sure of the age of your kids)? Get your wife to help with planning menus, getting the junk out of the house. It'll be better for all of you. Start going on a nightly walk as a family. Healthy and a chance for you all to take a deep breath and connect with each other. If your kids are older, then just go with your wife. Try to make changes in small ways at first if doing everything at once seems overwhelming. One of the greatest things of this plan is that the end goal is health, so you can't fall off the wagon, it'll be waiting for you! If you have something off plan, the key thing is to not let it derail you completely. It is so easy to say "oh well, I screwed up, might as well eat the rest of the pizza" or something similar.

          You can do this, your children are counting on you!
          My kids are 15, 8, 7, and 4. It is an active household. My 3 youngest are good with many of the primal teachings. They choose Bananas over cake and things like that. My wife has many bad habits that hurt me. She is an ice cream junkie. Likes her snacks and things like that. Most of the time I resist, then there are nights I sneak away and a binge happens.

          I do pretty much all of the cooking, so I have a lot of control over that what goes on the table and how.

          But yes, I know what you mean about how a little tremor turns into an Earthquake. There have been times where I had a bad Friday evening and decided to take it right up to Monday morning, as if Saturday and Sunday did not count.
          Get busy Groking or get busy dying. That's damn right!

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by BigBipper View Post
            I have MyNetDiary on my iPhone. I think I should see what is really going down my throat and share as needed. Thanks for the suggestion.
            For me, all food tracker are more or less the same except for one thing: the community. Find one where you are comfortable making your food log PUBLIC. Friend people on there, support them, have them support you.


            Accountability is the greatest tool against slipping off the diet. That's why celebrities are skinny... Yes they have trainers and etc but what really helps is the magazines announcing every celeb that gains 5 lbs.
            ------
            HCLF: lean red meat, eggs, low-fat dairy, bone broth/gelatin, fruits, seafood, liver, small amount of starch (oatmeal, white rice, potatoes, carrots), small amount of saturated fat (butter/ghee/coconut/dark chocolate/cheese).

            My Journal: gelatin experiments, vanity pictures, law school rants, recipe links


            Food blog: GELATIN and BONE BROTH recipes

            " The best things in life are free and the 2nd best are expensive!" - Coco Chanel

            Comment


            • #36
              wife an ice cream junkie, huh? Me too.

              Suggestion: I bought an ice cream maker online and make my own, without sugar. A can of coconut milk, add egg yolks (i also whip the whites and add them), add a tbs of honey if she needs it, add some fruit if you want, vanilla, and you're good to go. TONS of paleo ice cream recipes on the internet.

              Totally curbed my ice cream fetish. And way more delicious than store bought (even organic)... except Talenti's salted caramel which is kryptonite for me.

              I also bought an ice cream maker for my son (who introduced me to MDA) so he could make ice cream for my grandkids and start to wean them off sugar as a primary food source...

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Owen View Post
                BigBipper, I respect you for your honesty, and there are a lot of people behind you here and want you to succeed. There are however some people in the world who aren't. Here is a rant about them.

                You mentioned that you are 'painfully addicted' to certain foods. That's exactly what the shareholders of many food manufacturers want you to be. Food companies employ TOP SCIENTISTS in order to make their products as addictive as possible. And it is a handful of manufacturers that are locked in a battle for one thing only - profit. Think of the average wealthy shareholder of a major food company, who is hugely wealthy, has a personal trainer, and doesn't feed him or herself one mouthful of the crap that they are selling to the average citizen for HUGE dollars. If this very real relationship doesn't become apparent to that average citizen, then they will go on to blame themselves, and only themselves, for their predicament, and probably keep abusing their bodies and binge eating as a result, because the more you resist something, the more it happens.

                In the western world we see ourselves as free and empowered, and in many ways we are, but it is quite amazing that our bodies can be hijacked in this way purely on account of profit. And the individual concerned can only look to themselves for the solution - for the cure. Although the foods manufactured are made to elicit a strong instinctual feeding response leading to addiction, the whole thing occurs in a legal grey area in which if you attempt to control what ingredients and techniques go into processed food, you end up potentially impinging on other civil liberties. In other words, the overweight-processed-food-eater is on their own. This is a free country. If you want to try to make the most addictive chocolate product you can conjure and sell it to people, good luck to you.

                You have to look at this clearly because the only answer is taking the power back for yourself. When that shareholder climbs into their Porsche, on the way to their next business lunch (at a high end restaurant that will serve mainly paleo/primal food, because thats what ALL of those restaurants serve), do you think that he/she gives one solitary damn about the consumer crying into a bag of chocolates that they can't stop eating? Well, only to the extent that it will affect their profits and reputation. If movements such as paleo/ancestral health begin to gain momentum and generate a larger voice, then yes they will start to care, because thats politics - thats how society works. But for the moment, generally they don't care because they don't need to.

                So we're in a shareholder's meeting that same afternoon after a tour of the factory floor of Super-chocoballs-r-us. Our shareholder is digesting the lunch of halibut and salad entree, followed by a medium rare steak (grass fed of course) served with wild mushrooms, a poached free range egg and some quite delicious sauerkraut, finished off with an espresso. No dessert of course - are you kidding? On a workday? Sugar? In the meeting the shareholder makes a few very salient points about maximising efficiency and also talks about the new advertising campaign, mentioning that they need to increase appeal to children. Its a great performance and everyone is in agreement. Just goes to show what a power lunch can do for you! Excellent! Another day another dollar.

                The end.
                THAT was awesome! What an amazing post and great point. I am no great position than the CAFO cattle. WOW! No man likes to hear that in the end, he does not have control of his own destiny.

                Funniest thing you said, "Super-chocoballs-r-us" Classic!
                Get busy Groking or get busy dying. That's damn right!

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by BigBipper View Post
                  THAT was awesome! What an amazing post and great point. I am no great position than the CAFO cattle. WOW! No man likes to hear that in the end, he does not have control of his own destiny.

                  Funniest thing you said, "Super-chocoballs-r-us" Classic!
                  Thankyou, I try to be informative in my rants :-) Joking aside it can be hugely helpful to be aware of the actual dynamics at work in the producer / consumer relationship, i.e 'Who made this? Why did they make it? Why am I eating so much of it?' I highly recommend the book 'Salt, Sugar, Fat - How the food Giants Hooked Us' written by Michael Moss. It's sobering but very informative reading. I was introduced to this by the Paleo podcaster Angelo Coppola via his 'Latest in Paleo' podcast, Episode 66. He covers it really well, if like me you prefer to listen than read.

                  Otherwise I don't want to focus too much on this because ultimately we need to shift focus from the negatives of pizza, chips and chocoballs towards the positives of vegetables meat and fruit. Mother nature is the true artist at work in our lives. We put this bad stuff down once we realise it doesn't work for us, and we move away, put it behind us, so to speak.

                  I'm at the risk of getting preachy here, so I'll stop and say that we are all different with different approaches to this, but in dietary terms I have been where you are, and for me it wasn't really that difficult to forge the new path. You know what that path is, otherwise you wouldn't be posting on this website.
                  Healthy is the new wealthy.

                  http://www.facebook.com/groups/ances...handnutrition/

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Owen View Post
                    Thankyou, I try to be informative in my rants :-) Joking aside it can be hugely helpful to be aware of the actual dynamics at work in the producer / consumer relationship, i.e 'Who made this? Why did they make it? Why am I eating so much of it?' I highly recommend the book 'Salt, Sugar, Fat - How the food Giants Hooked Us' written by Michael Moss. It's sobering but very informative reading. I was introduced to this by the Paleo podcaster Angelo Coppola via his 'Latest in Paleo' podcast, Episode 66. He covers it really well, if like me you prefer to listen than read.

                    Otherwise I don't want to focus too much on this because ultimately we need to shift focus from the negatives of pizza, chips and chocoballs towards the positives of vegetables meat and fruit. Mother nature is the true artist at work in our lives. We put this bad stuff down once we realise it doesn't work for us, and we move away, put it behind us, so to speak.

                    I'm at the risk of getting preachy here, so I'll stop and say that we are all different with different approaches to this, but in dietary terms I have been where you are, and for me it wasn't really that difficult to forge the new path. You know what that path is, otherwise you wouldn't be posting on this website.
                    Amen. my path has become much clearer thanks to you folks.
                    Get busy Groking or get busy dying. That's damn right!

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      As a struggling depressive, one thing I am learning is not to punish myself for perceived 'failure'. That way truly does lead to feelings of poor self-worth, misery and depression which can spiral and bleed into other aspects of life.

                      You seem to be punishing lapses with binges when maybe you should be asking yourself why you 'lapse' in the first place. Is it stress or is it a feeling that you somehow 'deserve' to be unhealthy?

                      Maybe you would benefit from some sort of counselling with regard to your relationship with food in conjunction with trying to eat better. And maybe, just maybe, try to stop punishing your 'lapses' with food?

                      Yes you have addictions - we all I am sure have those to some extent. It doesn't mean you have to succumb. Just do your best and take it one day at a time maybe?

                      Hugs to you - I hope you get through this xx
                      I don't ask that you like me - all I ask is that you respect my life experiences and i will do the same.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by MIstressKiki View Post
                        You seem to be punishing lapses with binges when maybe you should be asking yourself why you 'lapse' in the first place. Is it stress or is it a feeling that you somehow 'deserve' to be unhealthy?
                        This was my pattern for a long time. Realizing that I could absorb a 500 or even 1000 calorie lapse now and then really gave me a lot more control over the bingeing.
                        50yo, 5'3"
                        SW-195
                        CW-125, part calorie counting, part transition to primal
                        GW- Goals are no longer weight-related

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Of everything you have said in this thread, these three are the most disturbing:
                          1. I have a traditional doctor.
                          2. My wife has bad habits and is an ice cream addict and that affects how I eat.
                          3. Sometimes I want to walk out to the back shed and hang myself.

                          You're in bad shape.

                          However, there is some good news here: You are NOT primal.** You have never been primal. Yup, this is actually GOOD NEWS! If you had truly been primal for 8 months and still hadn't seen improvement, then I'm not sure what would have helped you. I maintain that it takes upwards of 6-8 weeks of strict Primal to even BEGIN to heal, while you're current streak is about 5 days before backsliding. In other words, you've simply been starting over from Square 1, repeatedly. And failing. For eight months straight. No wonder you're depressed. But since you haven't been Primal yet, then Primal hasn't failed you yet either.



                          I suppose I should give some advice:
                          • Cut the wheat, NOW. Wheat is poison for almost everybody, and it sounds like you're more susceptible to it than others. The symptoms you describe are CLASSIC signs of wheat inflammation and wheat/sugar addiction, the type of symptoms that Primal diet is famous for helping.
                          • If you have cravings, eat FAT. Lots and lots of fat. Fatty meats, fatty frozen pork sausage, plain salted butter out of the tub, guacamole, chicken thighs and wings. You'll feel full and a bit crappy, like you never want to eat again. That's the point. You'll be so busy digesting that full feeling that you won't want bread or even sugar. I wouldn't worry about how much fat you eat until AFTER you've kicked the sugar.
                          • Read the book The End of Overeating by David Kessler. Kessler describes addiction to sweets and bread. Kessler also describes exactly what Owen was talking about: how industrial food is engineered to get you addicted, to keep you hungry, and to actually prevent you from feeling full. The chapter about the food at Chili's is especially disturbing. Those bastards in the food industry are killing people for a profit.
                          • Look for in-person help. When you're at the gym, ask around to find someone on a low-carb diet, or is Primal/Paleo. IMO, your best bet is to look for a 50-60-year-old guy who's trim but not overly muscled, NOT somebody young. Young bodybuilder SAD guys can get away with bad diets and still look great, and young bodybuilders are arrogant anyway. However, if an older SAD lived on pizza, he might be muscled but he would still have a pudgy tummy. If the older guy is thin in the middle, he's probably low carb. (And an older guy will understand family stress). One thing I've noticed about Primal successes is that they love to help. They want to shout their own success from the rooftops and share that success and make others successful too. A Primal won't tell you to "stop being a pig and just lost the weight." A Primal will understand. And that Primal mentor will likely check up on you on the gym, ask how you're doing, and rejoice in your success. It's human nature: when someone helps you to succeed, he can claim part of that success.
                          • Get your family involved. Does your wife even KNOW about your thoughts about going out to the back shed? And that her ice cream is contributing to that? This is a serious life/death/sickness/health issue! If your family doesn't want to be Primal, they should at least try to keep you on track. This sounds like a family project. "Daddy is sick and we need to help him get better, because we want him to be our Daddy for a long time."
                          • Get a full blood panel from your doctor, and then find another doctor (if you have the insurance). Again, maybe some at the gym will know of a more open-minded doctor.


                          Good luck, and keep posting here with progress!

                          ---------------
                          **NOTE: There are some posters on the forum who will try to tell you that "Well, it's obvious that you tried Primal and it doesn't work for you. Therefore, you need to eat lots of carbs, as long as they are whole and unprocessed carbs." This is not true. You don't know yet if Primal will work for you. You're haven't really been primal yet!
                          Last edited by oxide; 08-31-2013, 05:58 PM.
                          5'0" female, 45 years old. Started Primal October 31, 2011, at a skinny fat 111.5 lbs. Low weight: 99.5 lb on a fast. Gained back to 115(!) on SAD chocolate, potato chips, and stress. Currently 111.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by BigBipper View Post
                            You guys are good people. I actually anticipated I would get blasted by you guys out here. I am glad there was help and support waiting.

                            As I said earlier, I am 38. Male. Married with 4 kids. Weighting in at around 295lbs. Painfully addicted to things like Pizza and Chocolate. I have a desk job, but get to the gym about twice a week.
                            I may be comin in a bit late here, may have been said already.

                            Baby steps, Reset, Do over,
                            ,,,, want it ! (?)
                            clear your head man, sounds like a lot goin on,,,
                            strength man, head strong,
                            read the book yet ? or just reading these forums ?
                            there's a plan layed out in the book.

                            pizza ?
                            clear the house of all the goodies (bad Shit)
                            may be tough with 4 kids, and wife better buy in too,
                            be your master. (theirs too)

                            walk every day you don't get to that gym,
                            4 driveways, then one more each next day, that next corner, around the block, bring the family along.
                            you'll get tire of walking, that's when you start jogging,,,

                            download primal fitness, read it too, gym yourself at home.

                            now I'm gonna read the next couple pages,,,

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by BigBipper View Post
                              Someone mentioned cortisol levels which I understand are driven by stress? Well, I'm in a household that has 4 kids under 15 and I am wound like a golf ball all the time.

                              The house is shear chaos.
                              Now we're getting somewhere,,,

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Supposedly higher vitamin C (1000mg) combats cortisol, the stress hormone. I take 1000mg spaced throughout the day just in case myself. You can try that...
                                ------
                                HCLF: lean red meat, eggs, low-fat dairy, bone broth/gelatin, fruits, seafood, liver, small amount of starch (oatmeal, white rice, potatoes, carrots), small amount of saturated fat (butter/ghee/coconut/dark chocolate/cheese).

                                My Journal: gelatin experiments, vanity pictures, law school rants, recipe links


                                Food blog: GELATIN and BONE BROTH recipes

                                " The best things in life are free and the 2nd best are expensive!" - Coco Chanel

                                Comment

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