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  • #16
    Originally posted by Damiana View Post
    It's time for sone hard love then. You know why you failed, what are you going to do about it? We can't give advice unless you're really willing to change. Do you have an action plan?
    I don't think I have much of an action plan in place...at least not just yet.
    Get busy Groking or get busy dying. That's damn right!

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    • #17
      Originally posted by BigBipper View Post
      When I was committed to the lifestyle, it was a lot of good meats, cheeses, eggs, dairy, dark chocolate. Most of it was organic/clean.
      Can you tell us more about your experience with primal? Based on the list of foods above, it looks like you were pretty low carb when you were sticking to it. How many grams of carbs do you think you were eating when you were committed?

      You're obviously struggling with primal. But how are you struggling? Do you just really crave non-primal foods? Does eating primal trigger binges?

      I'm asking because I struggled with primal as well. When I first went primal, I ate less than 100 g of carbs per day (usually between 80 and 100 g) but didn't restrict calories. Eating less carbs and more fat didn't decrease my appetite so I couldn't lose any weight. So I reduced carbs even more--to less than 30 g per day. I basically went on a cyclic ketogenic diet. I'd eat ketosis-level carbs during the week and kept my calories to 1200-1500 calories. Then I'd carb up on the weekend to fuel my HIIT workout Monday morning. That totally didn't work well for me. The carb ups would turn into binges. Basically, I just realized that eating very local carb makes me want to binge on carbs.

      Not sure if you have a similar problem. But high fat low carb doesn't work for everyone. It works for a lot of people, but not everyone. If you've been at it for 8 months and you've been eating high fat low carb, then it's likely that it doesn't work for you.

      My journal

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      • #18
        Originally posted by diene View Post
        Can you tell us more about your experience with primal? Based on the list of foods above, it looks like you were pretty low carb when you were sticking to it. How many grams of carbs do you think you were eating when you were committed?

        You're obviously struggling with primal. But how are you struggling? Do you just really crave non-primal foods? Does eating primal trigger binges?

        I'm asking because I struggled with primal as well. When I first went primal, I ate less than 100 g of carbs per day (usually between 80 and 100 g) but didn't restrict calories. Eating less carbs and more fat didn't decrease my appetite so I couldn't lose any weight. So I reduced carbs even more--to less than 30 g per day. I basically went on a cyclic ketogenic diet. I'd eat ketosis-level carbs during the week and kept my calories to 1200-1500 calories. Then I'd carb up on the weekend to fuel my HIIT workout Monday morning. That totally didn't work well for me. The carb ups would turn into binges. Basically, I just realized that eating very local carb makes me want to binge on carbs.

        Not sure if you have a similar problem. But high fat low carb doesn't work for everyone. It works for a lot of people, but not everyone. If you've been at it for 8 months and you've been eating high fat low carb, then it's likely that it doesn't work for you.
        I will attempt to give you a detailed reply from my phone. Please disregard any typos. My experience with primal has been short lived. I will say that I have been educated on the subject for a quite a short time, say 8 months. My actually experience of doing has been shorter.
        I will say that when I was committed that I was probably consuming about 80-100 grams per day. My struggles seem to come from just a weak mind and some temptations in my household.

        I can honestly say that I have not been at it, or committed if you will, for 8 months. Something always derails me or I let it derail me. I keep yo-yoing. 4 great days, 2 bad ones. 5 great days, 1 bad one. 1 great week, 2 bad weeks. Never any consistency. I think this is why I have not gained weight during this time. LOL
        Get busy Groking or get busy dying. That's damn right!

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        • #19
          Hi BigBipper--
          The on-off thing, huh? Hmm--don't concern yourself with negative thoughts ("weak mind" isn't the problem!). You have some temptations at home, it sounds like--i assume you can't get them outa the house? If not, bummer.

          Ok, maybe this might help: it sounds like you're on track for several days in a row, then fall off the rails. Assuming you are keeping track for what triggers that fall (time of day? kind of sleep the night before? stress at work? boredom?) in the meantime, you might try noting when you begin to feel that temptation coming, and then HAUNT THE HELL out of this forum. Anything to keep you on track. Read others' journals here, even if you don't comment. Cheer them on, even if only in your head. You will not feel alone, you will feel like you're helping others (even if in spirit only at that moment), and you will be reminded that this is a tough go for all but a few grokkers.

          Also, try to make it a "I'm doing this for the next 24 hours" or "next 3 hours" or "next hour" or "next minute"--whatever you need to get past that temptation. Get up and go somewhere (where the temptation isn't there). Give your BODY a treat like a walk or an epsom salt bath with good smelling stuff (yeah, guys do that...!), something that will get you past that feeling. Cheer on when you do 5 days, instead of 4. Aim for short goals...and lengthen them when you get that under control.

          But best thing ever--read the forums (stay away from the ones with the zealots arguing: they raise your cortisol!), comment or not, but you are part of a community. We're all here.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by drjoyous View Post
            But best thing ever--read the forums (stay away from the ones with the zealots arguing: they raise your cortisol!), comment or not, but you are part of a community. We're all here.
            Hey, those are the best ones!

            So the on and off thing is pretty common when people first start. It's normal to take some time to get rid of old habits.

            The thing that has helped me is to set realistic goals and take small steps. I find that, for me, trying to change too many things at once sets me up for failure. I was pretty inconsistent at first and struggled a lot as well. What worked for me was to give up one bad thing at a time. The first thing that I gave up was wheat. I think once you eliminate wheat, you eliminate a lot of the bad things that people eat. I just stuck that this one rule (no wheat) very strictly for a while, and, once that became normal and natural for me, I started eliminating other things as well. One thing at a time. (Actually, I did wheat and corn at the same time cuz I don't like corn anyway so that was easy for me, but, really, one hard thing at a time.) See if that helps.

            My journal

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            • #21
              Originally posted by drjoyous View Post
              Hi BigBipper--
              The on-off thing, huh? Hmm--don't concern yourself with negative thoughts ("weak mind" isn't the problem!). You have some temptations at home, it sounds like--i assume you can't get them outa the house? If not, bummer.

              Ok, maybe this might help: it sounds like you're on track for several days in a row, then fall off the rails. Assuming you are keeping track for what triggers that fall (time of day? kind of sleep the night before? stress at work? boredom?) in the meantime, you might try noting when you begin to feel that temptation coming, and then HAUNT THE HELL out of this forum. Anything to keep you on track. Read others' journals here, even if you don't comment. Cheer them on, even if only in your head. You will not feel alone, you will feel like you're helping others (even if in spirit only at that moment), and you will be reminded that this is a tough go for all but a few grokkers.

              Also, try to make it a "I'm doing this for the next 24 hours" or "next 3 hours" or "next hour" or "next minute"--whatever you need to get past that temptation. Get up and go somewhere (where the temptation isn't there). Give your BODY a treat like a walk or an epsom salt bath with good smelling stuff (yeah, guys do that...!), something that will get you past that feeling. Cheer on when you do 5 days, instead of 4. Aim for short goals...and lengthen them when you get that under control.

              But best thing ever--read the forums (stay away from the ones with the zealots arguing: they raise your cortisol!), comment or not, but you are part of a community. We're all here.
              Wow, that was one of the most useful comments I have every read. I feel like I can really take something from this. Not that other comments have not be appreciated, but this was so applicable.

              Thank you. I am quite humbled by your obvious concern and compassion.
              Get busy Groking or get busy dying. That's damn right!

              Comment


              • #22
                For me, the way I found out about Paleo was through the Dukan diet. That diet is controversial on these boards, but I needed the hard-reset on my insulin SO BADLY. I did two weeks of ONLY protein. As much as I wanted. Absolutely no fruit, no carbs, not even a vegetable! I know, it sounds crazy. But it (I think?) helped me get rid of a ton of glucose in my system. I wasn't hungry, because hello, steak & eggs & bacon cheeseburgers. Meat got very boring. But honestly, I lost like a pound or two A DAY and I started at 185 pounds. No, not the ultimate healthy diet but in the short term, it may help you get a jump start. Like I said, I needed the hard-reset on my system. I started sleeping better within the first week in addition to any weight loss.

                Once the two weeks was up (and I had found this website and book) I started adding back in things like avocado and brussles sprouts and asparagus - but those are the veggies I like, I hate lettuce (kale, shudder) - you add in what you want, even green beans (controversy!). I still don't eat fruit (I found out I'm fructose intolerant). I don't miss it much. I am not hungry every day until about noon, I wait till 1:00 PM after I work out to eat. Going all protein helped with the carb cravings, I got over them faster. I alternate days with veggies with days without veggies. It really helps keep my hypoglycemia under control.

                One great piece of advice I heard was - when you get a craving/hunger pang, tell yourself you can have more meat! Any kind of meat! And if your brain says 'meh', then you aren't really hungry, it's just a craving.

                Hang in there. Move a little bit every day, but don't make it a 'thing'. Your body is exhausted - just continue feeding it good food and it will thank you.
                I could see that, if not actually disgruntled, he was far from being gruntled. ~P. G. Wodehouse

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                • #23
                  Keep a food log. There are some good apps out there with support systems between dieters, encouraging each other through the good and the bad.

                  I don't always think food logging is the best way to go, but I think in your case it may help greatly. I like CalorieCount. It will keep you accountable of what you eat.

                  Eta: don't worry about calories yet on the food log, just try to log everything you eat, and try to be primal.
                  Last edited by turquoisepassion; 08-28-2013, 04:27 PM.
                  ------
                  HCLF: lean red meat, eggs, low-fat dairy, bone broth/gelatin, fruits, seafood, liver, small amount of starch (oatmeal, white rice, potatoes, carrots), small amount of saturated fat (butter/ghee/coconut/dark chocolate/cheese).

                  My Journal: gelatin experiments, vanity pictures, law school rants, recipe links


                  Food blog: GELATIN and BONE BROTH recipes

                  " The best things in life are free and the 2nd best are expensive!" - Coco Chanel

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                  • #24
                    Can you get your family on board (not sure of the age of your kids)? Get your wife to help with planning menus, getting the junk out of the house. It'll be better for all of you. Start going on a nightly walk as a family. Healthy and a chance for you all to take a deep breath and connect with each other. If your kids are older, then just go with your wife. Try to make changes in small ways at first if doing everything at once seems overwhelming. One of the greatest things of this plan is that the end goal is health, so you can't fall off the wagon, it'll be waiting for you! If you have something off plan, the key thing is to not let it derail you completely. It is so easy to say "oh well, I screwed up, might as well eat the rest of the pizza" or something similar.

                    You can do this, your children are counting on you!

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by BigBipper View Post
                      I am 38 years old. Still teetering around 300lbs. My hips joints hurt. They are tired of carrying the weight. Much of my abuse comes in the form of binges that would make a grown man blush. The other things I suffer with are sleep apnea, HBP, and GERD. All the usual suspects for one who continues to indulge.
                      I know bingeing. It kept me fat for 25 years. In my case it wasn't really about the food. I mean I did like the stuff I was chowing down on, but the food was a tool, a weapon I was using against myself. I think most bingeing behavior is way more complicated than the composition of what you're putting in your mouth. So don't think of yourself as weak. You're more likely battling some monster you don't quite understand yet. That doesn't mean you can't win - eventually.

                      One thing I noticed early on was that when I "gave in" to something "bad", I would just give up and go on autopilot. Try not to think of eating something you think you shouldn't as a failure. If you own it as a choice, then every single bite is an opportunity to make another choice. Then if you make 2, 4, 6, 50 "bad" choices in a row, the very next bite can be something different, or not, you're making the choices you want. Over time (it was over a year for me) I bet you will see a dramatic difference in your choices.

                      And I hear you on the hip pain. It was the thought of another 30yrs of that that got me into my head and out of the chip bag.
                      50yo, 5'3"
                      SW-195
                      CW-125, part calorie counting, part transition to primal
                      GW- Goals are no longer weight-related

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                      • #26
                        Changing to a Primal diet can be tough especially with kids and all their snacks and cereal staring at you. I had this issue with my first go around. I went from 250lb to 190lb on a clean diet. I then started reading about primal, that helped out in alot of other areas like sleep and joint pain. Then I fell off the wagon and ate it. I went right back up to about 235, stress was a huge part. I could knock of a box of cereal like a champ.
                        A few things that helped my cravings were sunflower seeds in the shell, they take fricken forever to get out of the shell and eat. It gave me the feeling I was eating something and calories were very low. Maybe not the best thing for you but I found it helped. Also I when a craving hit I would take the time to actually prepare and cook something, this would help me sort of calm down a bit and be able to make something healthier. Substituting something else to take you mind off it, as suggested before helped alot too.
                        I'm back down to 215 in about 30 days, feeling better and have a good outlook on my own success. Once you drop a few pounds or notice a change in you health, mental or physical things will become more positive and easier.

                        Keep at it.
                        I find your lack of bacon disturbing.

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                        • #27
                          Someone mentioned cortisol levels which I understand are driven by stress? Well, I'm in a household that has 4 kids under 15 and I am wound like a golf ball all the time.

                          The house is shear chaos.
                          Get busy Groking or get busy dying. That's damn right!

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by BigBipper View Post
                            This certainly started out as a rant/vent. But it was easy and quick to see that it was plea for help. I think if failure was the end game that I would not have even bothered posting something. I'm frustrated with myself. This has gone on for years.

                            When I was committed to the lifestyle, it was a lot of good meats, cheeses, eggs, dairy, dark chocolate. Most of it was organic/clean.

                            I am 38 years old. Still teetering around 300lbs. My hips joints hurt. They are tired of carrying the weight. Much of my abuse comes in the form of binges that would make a grown man blush. The other things I suffer with are sleep apnea, HBP, and GERD. All the usual suspects for one who continues to indulge.
                            Originally posted by BigBipper View Post
                            You guys are good people. I actually anticipated I would get blasted by you guys out here. I am glad there was help and support waiting.

                            As I said earlier, I am 38. Male. Married with 4 kids. Weighting in at around 295lbs. Painfully addicted to things like Pizza and Chocolate. I have a desk job, but get to the gym about twice a week.
                            If you are having troubles, you need to get rid of the trigger foods and inflammatories. Stop the dairy, cheese and *all* sugar foods. That means give up the chocolate. Later you can reintroduce raw cacao and make your own stuff, but for now, kick the addiction.

                            You complain about your pain, suffering, and failure, then continue to talk about how you "indulge". It doesn't sound like you're indulging in anything, but actively harming yourself. How is that indulgence? You either actually act in a way you want, and end up with results, or you pay lip service to an idea but never act on it. You, and only you, can decide to make proactive choices, and whether to binge or not. What you should do is have only good foods to even binge on.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by BigBipper View Post
                              Someone mentioned cortisol levels which I understand are driven by stress? Well, I'm in a household that has 4 kids under 15 and I am wound like a golf ball all the time.

                              The house is shear chaos.
                              Find ways to bring the chaos level down. Create a family calendar, a chore chart, restrict how many activities your children are allowed. You are the parent, you have some say in the level of chaos in your own home.

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                              • #30
                                Bonjour,
                                If you have 3 things to remember from all the good advice here, these would be:
                                - go 100% wheat free (and wheat is hidden in many processed foods so beware)
                                - go low PUFA (especially omg-6 rich oils) but if you eat fatty fish with omg-3, that's just fine, don't worry. Fats rich in saturated and mono-unsaturated are fine (butter, coconut oil, animal fat, etc).
                                - cook for yourself and family from fresh produces only and stick to that for a while.

                                The rest is not so critical right now. Once you get these 3 things as a normal part of your daily life, you can tweak with work-outs, etc.

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