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  • Thoughts on this Gary Taubes answer..

    So I was reading a Q&A with Gary Taubes and someone ask the following:

    "I have been living on a low carb diet since being diagnosed with T2 diabetes 6 years ago. I have lost over 160 lbs and have the disease in very tight control with a usual A1c at 5% or close to it. I am still 30 lbs overweight at 5 ft tall & cannot lose any more no matter how low I cut carbs. I see no way around counting calories to lose these last pounds but my calorie needs are so low that I am intensly hungry all the time which is defeating me. What do you suggest"

    Gary's answer.

    "All I can do here is speculate, as I have no clinical experience treating people with carbohydrate-restricted diets, I'm just an investigative reporter with a somewhat obsessive interest in the subject. That said, between 1956 and 1972, the British physician Robert Kemp prescribed carbohydrate-restricted diets to almost 1,500 patients. He concluded that a small proportion, particularly the most obese and those who had been obese the longest, often failed to lose weight on the diets even though they faithfully followed them. It is possible that if you were heavy for a long time, your fat tissue has accumulated chronic damage and so you're just stuck with those 30 pounds, and little or nothing you can do will change that."

    "Another possibility -- and this is really speculation, because as I've said I'm not a doctor -- is that the diet actually works best when it is a high calorie diet with a lot of fat. The idea is that we consciously or subconsciously try to restrict calories on the diet and so our body still thinks it's in starvation mode, even with the absence of carbohydrates, and holds on to the fat. I have no idea if this is the case -- it's the kind of thing that, in an ideal world, would be studied by obesity researchers."

    Thoughts? because the idea of holding extra fat sounds depressing to me.

  • #2
    Sorry, this is a tangent, but "Starvation mode"?
    I read GCBC and Taubes debunks the "thrifty gene" hypothesis. Isn't the idea of a starvation mode dependent on the thrifty gene hypothesis?
    Please correct me if I'm wrong.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by cheapo View Post
      Sorry, this is a tangent, but "Starvation mode"?
      I read GCBC and Taubes debunks the "thrifty gene" hypothesis. Isn't the idea of a starvation mode dependent on the thrifty gene hypothesis?
      Please correct me if I'm wrong.
      The person who PROPOSED the thrifty gene hypothesis (Neel) debunked the the thrifty gene hypothesis...

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      • #4
        Originally posted by cheapo View Post
        Sorry, this is a tangent, but "Starvation mode"?
        I read GCBC and Taubes debunks the "thrifty gene" hypothesis. Isn't the idea of a starvation mode dependent on the thrifty gene hypothesis?
        Please correct me if I'm wrong.
        I was wondering the same thing,that's why Im asking ...but it seems that if this is the case, the cheat day lingo or refill, makes sense..if not, im screwed with unwanted fat for the rest of my life, no matter what I do.

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        • #5
          My take is not very scientific (I'm not a doc either) but ... if you were stranded on a desert island with nothing to eat, you'd lose that fat! So there has to be some way ...

          Thyroid? other hormonal imbalances? There's got to be something else afoot here.
          Last edited by tooround; 05-04-2010, 01:35 PM. Reason: and I can't type either

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          • #6
            There's no info as to sex / age / exercise so all I can do here is speculate but I think it has more to do with genetics and where we store fat. If you're a woman storing fat in your butt and hips, it's going to be incredibly difficult to get off those last few lbs (if you had more than a few lbs to lose in the first place, those last few lbs might be somewhere closer to 30). Sparse blood vessels in the butt / hip / thigh area prevent proper circulation in the region making it very difficult to mobilize that fat. I'd speculate that you need to put on more muscle before that fat is going to go anywhere.

            If diet is responsible for 80% of weight loss, it's possible that those remaining 30 lbs fall into the 20% that is remedied by exercise or not remedied at all.

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            • #7
              I think he was trying to non-scientifically refer to leptin resistance. Which can be reversed.
              sigpic
              In Pursuit of Healthiness, Only to Achieve Happiness!: www.livingnotsurviving.com

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              • #8
                Originally posted by EGYnutrition View Post
                I think he was trying to non-scientifically refer to leptin resistance. Which can be reversed.
                But we DON"T know that leptin resistance can be reversed... we can only speculate that avoiding neolithic agents of disease helps.

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                • #9
                  There's a lot of stuff out there about "stubborn fat," you should look into it. I am in the same boat as you, but only ~5 pounds left to lose. No diet in the world (zero carb + caloric deficit + IF) seems to fix it.
                  .`.><((((> .`.><((((>.`.><((((>.`.><(( ((>
                  ><((((> .`.><((((>.`.><((((>.`.><(( ((>

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                  • #10
                    Ever try the opposite?..Like Gary speculate's at the end of the answer?

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by FrankOcean View Post
                      Ever try the opposite?..Like Gary speculate's at the end of the answer?
                      Me, I have. And I got even fatter.
                      .`.><((((> .`.><((((>.`.><((((>.`.><(( ((>
                      ><((((> .`.><((((>.`.><((((>.`.><(( ((>

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                      • #12
                        Eating low carb can negatively effect thyroid hormone conversion. Any issue that inhibits proper thyroid function can make losing weight more difficult.

                        "Composition of the diet rather than reduction in the total calorie intake seems to determine the occurrence of decreased T3 generation in peripheral tissues during food deprivation. The dietary content of carbohydrate appears to be the key ingredient since as little as 50 g glucose reverses toward normal the fast-induced changes in T3 and rT3" http://www.thyroidmanager.org/Chapter5/5a-frame.htm

                        "Serum thyroid hormone levels drop during starvation and illness. In mild illness, this involves only a decrease in serum triiodothyronine (T3) levels. However, as the severity and duration of the illness increase, there is a drop in both serum T3 and thyroxin (T4), without an elevation of TSH.

                        Starvation, and more precisely carbohydrate deprivation, appears to rapidly inhibit deiodination of T4 to T3 by Type 1 iodothyronine-deiodinase (ID-1) in the liver, thus inhibiting generation of T3, and preventing metabolism of reverse T3 (10). Consequently there is a drop in serum T3 and elevation of reverse T3. Since starvation induces a decrease in basal metabolic rate (11), it has been argued, teleologically, that this decrease in thyroid hormone represents an adaptive response by the body to spare calories and protein by inducing hypothyroidism." http://www.thyroidmanager.org/Chapter5/chapter_5b.htm

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                        • #13
                          Based on anecdotal experience, leptin resistance can be reversed, maybe not 100 percent, but it can. Otherwise the obese would not be able to burn fat, they would just be able to not gain it.

                          Im a firm believer in the idea that the human body has massive healing properties that are yet to even be shown to the public.
                          sigpic
                          In Pursuit of Healthiness, Only to Achieve Happiness!: www.livingnotsurviving.com

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                          • #14
                            Question about hypothyroidism - if someone loses 120 lbs with relative ease and then has a problem losing the last 30 lbs - why is hypothyroidism a potential culprit?

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                            • #15
                              Regardless of the science behind it, Taubes' speculation "the diet actually works best when it is a high calorie diet with a lot of fat" is working well for me. As long as I keep my fat ratio in the 80% range, I continue to lose, even when the calories are higher, say 1,700 to 2,100 per day.

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