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What makes you fat? This will be an interesting study

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  • What makes you fat? This will be an interesting study

    " A key initial experiment will be carried out jointly by researchers at Columbia University, the National Institutes of Health, the Florida Hospital–Sanford-Burnham Translational Research Institute in Orlando, and the Pennington Biomedical Research Center in Baton Rouge, La. In this pilot study, 16 overweight and obese participants will be housed throughout the experiment in research facilities to ensure accurate assessments of calorie consumption and energy expenditure. In stage one, the participants will be fed a diet similar to that of the average American—50 percent carbohydrates (15 percent sugar), 35 percent fat and 15 percent protein. Researchers will carefully manipulate the calories consumed until it is clear the participants are neither gaining nor losing fat. In other words, the calories they take in will match the calories they expend, as measured in a device called a metabolic chamber. For stage two, the subjects will be fed a diet of precisely the same number of calories they had been consuming—distributed over the same number of meals and snacks—but the composition will change dramatically.

    The total carbohydrate content of the new diet will be exceedingly low—on the order of 5 percent, which translates to only the carbohydrates that occur naturally in meat, fish, fowl, eggs, cheese, animal fat and vegetable oil, along with servings of green leafy vegetables. The protein content of this diet will match that of the diet the subjects ate initially—15 percent of calories. The remainder—80 percent of calories—will consist of fat from these real food sources. The idea is not to test whether this diet is healthy or sustainable for a lifetime but to use it to lower insulin levels by the greatest amount in the shortest time."

    Calories will be the same (the presumed amount to maintain the current weight of the obese subjects) but different macros. Will the low carb group lose weight? What do you think?

    Here is the Scientific America article about the research - What Makes You Fat: Too Many Calories, or the Wrong Carbohydrates?: Scientific American
    Last edited by canuck416; 08-26-2013, 09:00 AM.
    Recent Blog: http://www.peakperformanceradio.net/...y-john-saville

    https://www.facebook.com/PaleoJourne...?ref=bookmarks

  • #2
    Ah, finally a good test of the old Calories-in=Calories-out fallacy. Which, bio-chemically speaking, is just silly. But of course, let's wait for the proof ... the higher-fat diet should prove remarkably better for weight loss.
    I have great faith in fools; self-confidence, my friends call it.
    Edgar Allan Poe

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Giblets View Post
      Ah, finally a good test of the old Calories-in=Calories-out fallacy. Which, bio-chemically speaking, is just silly. But of course, let's wait for the proof ... the higher-fat diet should prove remarkably better for weight loss.
      I agree, still it will be fascinating to see the actual results, since they are going to strictly keep caloric intake at the level required to maintain current body weight. I have been wondering if the high fat diet provides better satiety and therefore individuals eating this way tend not to eat as many calories. Where as high carb diets tend to lead to overeating. By not factoring in this problem we may not see any actual changes in body weight.
      Last edited by canuck416; 08-26-2013, 10:15 AM.
      Recent Blog: http://www.peakperformanceradio.net/...y-john-saville

      https://www.facebook.com/PaleoJourne...?ref=bookmarks

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      • #4
        My experience -- and the experience of many others I know -- is that high fat delivers weight loss and improved insulin response. It will be interesting to see the study results. I do wish that the # of study participants were larger, but it is likely the result of tight research funding.
        Starting Weight: 197.5
        Current Weight: 123
        Far healthier!

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        • #5
          Will they track number of suicides? It's not all about the weight loss, it's the well-being.
          My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
          When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Leida View Post
            Will they track number of suicides? It's not all about the weight loss, it's the well-being.
            Agreed, but the research is to determine if the hormone hypothesis is a viable explanation for why we get fat and that insulin resistance, driven perhaps by the sugars in the diet, is a fundamental defect not just in type 2 diabetes but in heart disease and even cancer.

            "The idea is not to test whether this diet is healthy or sustainable for a lifetime but to use it to lower insulin levels by the greatest amount in the shortest time."
            Last edited by canuck416; 08-26-2013, 10:23 AM.
            Recent Blog: http://www.peakperformanceradio.net/...y-john-saville

            https://www.facebook.com/PaleoJourne...?ref=bookmarks

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            • #7
              So this is NuSci's first experiment? Figures. The weights between the groups should be relatively the same, but I've been in the low carb community for a while now, so I know if the low carb group weighs even five grams less on average they'll proclaim it as a victory.

              Waste of funding.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Giblets View Post
                Ah, finally a good test of the old Calories-in=Calories-out fallacy. Which, bio-chemically speaking, is just silly. But of course, let's wait for the proof ... the higher-fat diet should prove remarkably better for weight loss.
                This is questionable. Not sure if you mistyped this, or if you're that wrong on the subject.

                Thermodynamics dictates that calories eaten must be stored, burned or passed through the body. There are no other possibilities. Now, some sources of calories are more efficiently processed and utilized than others, and some types may signal metabolic adjustments that others don't and some sources do get metabolized preferentially to others. But, on the whole, calories digested coming in are either stored as fat or they're burned. (Obviously there are some other minor stores, but those aren't generally what people are worried about with regards to weight gain)

                In terms of higher fat versus lower fat. That's, to my knowledge, always been expressed as a ratio. A low fat diet would have fat consisting of a smaller percentage of the total than a high fat diet. You would be eating less ounces or grams of fat to hit a particular caloric target, because it's more calorie dense, but you'd still be eating the same number of calories.

                When all is said and done, fats, proteins and carbs get processed differently and as such it's not unreasonable for one or the other to be lead to weight gain or loss all things being equal. But, that does not imply anything about the calories in = calories out idea. As the two must balance if you're to maintain a given amount of weight and body composition.

                And that's what studies like this are about. It's well established that calories behave the same regardless of source. The question though is about how the body goes about extracting those calories and whether one type signals metabolic changes or not.
                Originally posted by Timthetaco View Post
                So this is NuSci's first experiment? Figures. The weights between the groups should be relatively the same, but I've been in the low carb community for a while now, so I know if the low carb group weighs even five grams less on average they'll proclaim it as a victory.

                Waste of funding.
                That's what peer review is for. And if the results don't include a margin of error and the difference isn't statistically significant, then they're worthless.

                But, when it comes to this sort of research, I'm rather cynical. Medical research tends to be of rather low quality and regularly contradicts itself.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Timthetaco View Post
                  So this is NuSci's first experiment? Figures. The weights between the groups should be relatively the same, but I've been in the low carb community for a while now, so I know if the low carb group weighs even five grams less on average they'll proclaim it as a victory.

                  Waste of funding.
                  This.

                  In addition, the protein content of the diet is laughably low, in my opinion.
                  My nutrition/fitness/critical thinking blog:

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                  • #10
                    Also, Yoni Freehoff wrote a solid piece in response to this: Weighty Matters: Gary Taubes Launches Non-Profit to Prove His Low-Carb Hypothesis
                    My nutrition/fitness/critical thinking blog:

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                    • #11
                      It really does not test the hormone hypothesis though... The vast majority of the hormone hypothesis effects happen between the conception of the maternal grandmother and age five. However this study comes out, it is 16 people, testing the least effective timepoint in their lives, with an intervention which, as someone else has alluded to, very rarely works in the real world. So... *shrug*.
                      “In God we trust; all others must bring data.” W. Edwards Deming
                      Blogging at http://loafingcactus.com

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by canuck416 View Post
                        Calories will be the same (the presumed amount to maintain the current weight of the obese subjects) but different macros. Will the low carb group lose weight? What do you think?

                        Here is the Scientific America article about the research - What Makes You Fat: Too Many Calories, or the Wrong Carbohydrates?: Scientific American
                        I predict that they will gain some more fat on their bodies and lose a bit muscle, due to the lower thermogenic effect of dietary fat. Wether they gain or lose weight on the scale is irrelevant if their body stores more energy = fat...
                        "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

                        - Schopenhauer

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Timthetaco View Post
                          So this is NuSci's first experiment? Figures. The weights between the groups should be relatively the same, but I've been in the low carb community for a while now, so I know if the low carb group weighs even five grams less on average they'll proclaim it as a victory.

                          Waste of funding.
                          You think body comp i.e. weight will remain unchanged provided the calories stay the same?

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Timthetaco View Post
                            So this is NuSci's first experiment? Figures. The weights between the groups should be relatively the same, but I've been in the low carb community for a while now, so I know if the low carb group weighs even five grams less on average they'll proclaim it as a victory.

                            Waste of funding.
                            It will be the exact same group of 16. The first stage will be the conventional diet. Then they will switch to stage two using the high fat diet. Both stages will have the same caloric intake over the same time period. Personally I think it will be quite interesting and not a waste of funding.
                            Last edited by canuck416; 08-26-2013, 10:46 AM.
                            Recent Blog: http://www.peakperformanceradio.net/...y-john-saville

                            https://www.facebook.com/PaleoJourne...?ref=bookmarks

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by slowcooker View Post
                              You think body comp i.e. weight will remain unchanged provided the calories stay the same?
                              I think they'll weigh a little less in the ketogenic period (didn't see it was a crossover, my bad) due to glycogen depletion, but yes.

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