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  • #31
    Originally posted by namelesswonder View Post
    Could have been the fiber increase.
    Thanks, yeah I read it happens, will try again.
    Black magic specialist in bangladesh

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    • #32
      Originally posted by biko View Post
      Reintroducing them gave me better BM's but also MAJOR bloating.
      I dumped them again after like a week, bloating gone so are the improved BM's.

      Could the bloating have been temporary? Did I quit legumes too soon?
      Here's the deal with beans...they need to be fermented and then brought to a boil/simmered for a long time. This does require some forethought and time, so dry beans are never a quick meal.

      Here's an easy way to add beans to your diet: Buy a bag of beans, black beans, pinto beans, garbonzo or kidney--whatever strikes your fancy. Dump them in a large bowl, cover with water, leave on counter for a minimum of 8 hours, maximum of 48 hours. Do not rinse until you are ready to cook. You will hopefully see a lot of frothy bubbles on the surface of the water after 8-12 hours, this is good. If they emit a kind of unpleasant spoiled milky odor, this is also good. This is the fermentation you are after!

      Just prior to cooking, drain and rinse a few times. Put the beans in a crockpot on high or big enough pan to cook in. Bring to a boil, then turn the heat down until they are simmering. Cook time will take 2-4 hours depending on bean type and heat. Don't cook them at a low temperature, they must be boiled for at least 10 minutes at some point.

      When beans are to your liking, eat them however you want. Some people put a ham hock or some other boney, type of meat in with them for flavor and meat. Spice however you like.

      Put the leftover beans in freezer bags, tupperware, whatever, in individual serving sizes. Thaw these out when you want beans. They make excellent refried beans, soup, mix with rice, eat plain--they go good with everything.

      Here is a paper on what happens to beans when fermented if you like reading such things: Fermenting Beans

      Basically, what happens in the fermentation is the bacteria eat away at the starchy cell walls and change the way your body can digest the beans. It turns fiber into glucose and galactose. Degrades almost all saccharose. Increases available starch and resistant starch. Degrades almost all the Raffinose (this is the fart-maker!). Also, the main anti-nutrients (trypsin inhibitors and tannins) decreased by 50-80%.

      Cooking fermented beans does these things: The glucose, galactose, saccharose, raffinose, and resistant starch are all converted to insoluble fiber. The available starch increases. Anti-nutrients such as trypsin inhibitors, tannins, phytohaemagglutinin, and apha-amylase inhibitors are completely removed.

      Freezing cooked, fermented beans converts a large portion of the available starch into resistant starch.

      Basically, fermenting the beans prepares them for cooking. Cooking prepares them for eating. Freezing leftovers makes them even better.

      Canned beans are a poor option, IMO.

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      • #33
        question to otzi. If one is lactose intolerant, would drinking milk or yoghurt have the same effect as eating potato starch?

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        • #34
          Originally posted by shousan View Post
          question to otzi. If one is lactose intolerant, would drinking milk or yoghurt have the same effect as eating potato starch?
          No, completely different chemistry involved. Lactose intolerance will lead to an abundance of lactose in the large intestine, all of your gut microbes will eat this, especially ones that produce hydrogen gas leading to bloating, swelling, and diarrhea. With resistant starches, such as found in raw potato or tapioca starch, it is eaten almost exclusively by the beneficial bacteria that do not produce gas and are involved with beneficial processes such as butyrate production.

          I think that if a lactose intolerant person started adding potato/tapioca starch, green banana flour, and green bananas to their diet, the beneficial bacteria would outgrow the pathogenic types and it may alleviate the lactose intolerance. I base this on the fact that when people start out with potato starch supplements, if they start out too high, they get major gas. After a few weeks this completely stops as gut microbes change.

          Comment


          • #35
            ^Not all gas is the same. Eating starches is not going to give your body the lactase enzyme they are missing in order to process lactose. Probiotics can help with that.
            Depression Lies

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            • #36
              Originally posted by namelesswonder View Post
              Eating starches is not going to give your body the lactase enzyme they are missing in order to process lactose. Probiotics can help with that.
              What I am proposing is that eating fermentable fiber prebiotics in the form of resistant starch will allow your probiotics to work better. In a healthy gut, the beneficial bacteria (lacto-, bifido, etc...) should outnumber the pathogenic bacteria (e. coli, slamonella, h. pylori, etc...). Flooding the system with probiotics, many of which will never make it past the stomach and small intestine, is only a bandaid. Creating an environment where beneficial bacteria will thrive is more important. Once beneficial bacteria have colonized the gut, they create an environment with a specific PH and other stuff that keeps bad bugs at bay.

              Not makin' this up!

              Chris Kresser even talked about it yesterday: What Are the Hidden Costs of Modern Hygiene?

              And then there’s the idea of eating prebiotic foods or foods with a prebiotic effect, and these prebiotics essentially stimulate the growth of bacteria that are already present in our gut. Studies have shown that prebiotics actually have a more quantitative impact on the gut microbiota over time, which means that they increase the levels of healthy bacteria in the gut more than taking probiotics does. Taking probiotics tends to have more of a qualitative impact, meaning it cause dendritic cells to become anti-inflammatory, it drives the development of T regulatory cells, so essentially it helps regulate the immune system, but contrary to previous belief, studies have shown that probiotics don’t really have a significant quantitative impact over times. In other words, they don’t really “top up” depleted bacteria in the gut in the same way that prebiotics do.

              There are three options for prebiotics. One is soluble fiber that has a prebiotic effect, and that’s found in certain vegetables like onions and Jerusalem artichokes and starchy tubers, other fruits and vegetables. And then resistant starch, which is harder to come by in the diet but is found in potatoes that have been cooked and cooled for around 24 hours, green bananas, green plantains, which are virtually impossible to eat raw unless you dehydrate them, which is one way to do it. You can put them in the dehydrator and make dehydrated green plantain chips. Or you can use potato starch. Richard Nikoley has written a series on resistant starch on his blog, Free the Animal, so you might want to check that out if you’re interested. He did some experimentation with it himself and had a guest blogger who has done a lot of research on it come in and talk about it, too. So those are the ways you can do it with diet. I mean, it essentially involves eating a lot of fermentable fibers, if we were going to summarize it.

              Comment


              • #37
                Thanks otzi, that makes sense. I am coming from a position of probably having a bad imbalance of gut bacteria so making an emphasis on prebiotics in my diet makes things worse right now. Someone who does not have such a difficult time as I do might not have as many issues. Also I keep confusing what gets processed in the small intestine & large intestine (thinking about SIBO specifically).
                Depression Lies

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by namelesswonder View Post
                  Thanks otzi, that makes sense. I am coming from a position of probably having a bad imbalance of gut bacteria so making an emphasis on prebiotics in my diet makes things worse right now. Someone who does not have such a difficult time as I do might not have as many issues. Also I keep confusing what gets processed in the small intestine & large intestine (thinking about SIBO specifically).
                  SIBO is a tough one! If you have it, you are somewhat screwed. You have to starve it out and hope it doesn't come back, but it usually does. Antibiotics will get rid of it for a while, but it almost always comes back. New research shows it is mainly caused by a defect in the ileal brake, a sphincter like muscle that is supposed to prevent a backwards flow from large to small intestine. Essentially, it means gut microbes find a new home, but the gas can't escape in the normal way and creates pressure on the small intestine and even the stomach, leading to GERD, IBS, IBD, etc...

                  If that's what you have--pay no attention to anything prebiotic related! Pay very close attention also to amylase inhibitors often used as diet aids, and found in numerous plants, to prevent starch digestion--a deathblow to the SIBO person.

                  Dr. Norm Robillard is probably the most well-versed paleo scientist on SIBO. Here is his website and a slideshow from his talk at the Ancestral Health Symposium last week: Did Cavemen Get heartburn?

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Yeah I have IBS. Thanks for the link, I'll look into it. I did take a SIBO breath test at one point, but I did it wrong so I have no idea if I have it or not . Whatever is going on with me is being managed pretty well with the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, but it's definitely not "fixed" yet.
                    Depression Lies

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by namelesswonder View Post
                      Yeah I have IBS. Thanks for the link, I'll look into it. I did take a SIBO breath test at one point, but I did it wrong so I have no idea if I have it or not . Whatever is going on with me is being managed pretty well with the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, but it's definitely not "fixed" yet.
                      Not sure if you have depression/anxiety as your siggy suggests, but at any rate, you may find this interesting: Gut feelings: the future of psychiatry may be inside your stomach | The Verge

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by otzi View Post
                        Not sure if you have depression/anxiety as your siggy suggests, but at any rate, you may find this interesting: Gut feelings: the future of psychiatry may be inside your stomach | The Verge
                        I do! I've read quite a bit about the link between mood disorders & gut health. I will read that tomorrow!
                        Depression Lies

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by quikky View Post
                          How would you recommend leaning out, i.e. cutting, the stools after this bulk cycle? You don't want to bulk up your poop too much, since that will adversely impact fecal aesthetics.

                          (Sorry, this thread is just too fun)
                          Hydrate, salt, and magnesium citrate to keep them bulky and easy to pass.
                          My book Fix Your Gut is available on Amazon http://www.amazon.com/Fix-Your-Gut-D...s=fix+your+gut. The book price is $7.99.

                          I also offer coaching: http://fixyourgut.com/fixyourgut-coaching/.

                          www.fixyourgut.com
                          Twitter: @fixyourgutjb

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by otzi View Post
                            Here's the deal with beans...they need to be fermented and then brought to a boil/simmered for a long time. This does require some forethought and time, so dry beans are never a quick meal.

                            Here's an easy way to add beans to your diet: Buy a bag of beans, black beans, pinto beans, garbonzo or kidney--whatever strikes your fancy. Dump them in a large bowl, cover with water, leave on counter for a minimum of 8 hours, maximum of 48 hours. Do not rinse until you are ready to cook. You will hopefully see a lot of frothy bubbles on the surface of the water after 8-12 hours, this is good. If they emit a kind of unpleasant spoiled milky odor, this is also good. This is the fermentation you are after!

                            Just prior to cooking, drain and rinse a few times. Put the beans in a crockpot on high or big enough pan to cook in. Bring to a boil, then turn the heat down until they are simmering. Cook time will take 2-4 hours depending on bean type and heat. Don't cook them at a low temperature, they must be boiled for at least 10 minutes at some point.

                            When beans are to your liking, eat them however you want. Some people put a ham hock or some other boney, type of meat in with them for flavor and meat. Spice however you like.

                            Put the leftover beans in freezer bags, tupperware, whatever, in individual serving sizes. Thaw these out when you want beans. They make excellent refried beans, soup, mix with rice, eat plain--they go good with everything.

                            Here is a paper on what happens to beans when fermented if you like reading such things: Fermenting Beans

                            Basically, what happens in the fermentation is the bacteria eat away at the starchy cell walls and change the way your body can digest the beans. It turns fiber into glucose and galactose. Degrades almost all saccharose. Increases available starch and resistant starch. Degrades almost all the Raffinose (this is the fart-maker!). Also, the main anti-nutrients (trypsin inhibitors and tannins) decreased by 50-80%.

                            Cooking fermented beans does these things: The glucose, galactose, saccharose, raffinose, and resistant starch are all converted to insoluble fiber. The available starch increases. Anti-nutrients such as trypsin inhibitors, tannins, phytohaemagglutinin, and apha-amylase inhibitors are completely removed.

                            Freezing cooked, fermented beans converts a large portion of the available starch into resistant starch.

                            Basically, fermenting the beans prepares them for cooking. Cooking prepares them for eating. Freezing leftovers makes them even better.

                            Canned beans are a poor option, IMO.
                            Thanks for your elaborate answer, I will ferment, cook and freeze the #$%^$ out them and see what happens!
                            Black magic specialist in bangladesh

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Ron_Swanson View Post
                              Hydrate, salt, and magnesium citrate to keep them bulky and easy to pass.
                              I don't want my poop bulky. I want sculpted, chiseled poop.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                I have been cooking one bag of beans every couple weeks. I freeze the leftovers in ziplock sandwich bags--they are the perfect size for about a cup of beans. I put a bag in the fridge the night before I want them and they are thawed out the next day. Too easy.

                                If you eat corn, there are some good tortillas out there with ingredients: limed corn, salt, palm oil. I fry up 3 slices of bacon, then fry a couple tortillas in the bacon grease. Put the beans in the pan with the rest of the bacon grease and heat them and mush them up. Spread the beans on the tortilla and put a bacon strip on top with some cheese....

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