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Alan Aragon's Argument against paleo/primal lifestyle (with slide show)

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  • #61
    Originally posted by LauraSB View Post
    IAnd that sort of lifestyle is 1000x easier than that of an actual celiac, who has to worry about gluten contamination 24/7.
    Hehe, as a former wheat addict, I can tell you it is better to totally eliminate wheat from your diet. I have been "glutenized" not long ago at a celebration party at work and the hours that followed were not exactly "easy" on me ... Much simpler to consider yourself gluten intolerant than submit to the occasional wheaty food that will bring you to the bathroom for hours ...

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    • #62
      I actually find people like Alan Aragon to be dangerous. He is eloquent and argues well based on premises that he defines and chooses. His points of argument are often flawed.

      He also pretends to know WAY more than he does, and that is evident to people who's education extends beyond his level.

      He's great at looking at the trees, but forgets the forest.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
        In terms of risk and reward eating paleo is all reward with no risks.
        .

        Now that's seeing the forest over the trees. Nicely put.

        There really isn't anything to lose with primal.

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        • #64
          We seek out that which supports our beliefs, and we disregard and discredit those that do not.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
            Nobody's the Richard Dawkins of nutrition dude. Nobody comes close.
            Richard Dawkins is the FATHER OF LIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Slowneal View Post
              I actually find people like Alan Aragon to be dangerous. He is eloquent and argues well based on premises that he defines and chooses. His points of argument are often flawed.
              Oh that Aragon douche, forgot all about that guy! Yeah Peat, Aragon, Stone, McDougall, Campbell, who cares.

              These people come out of nowhere, most have zero serious credentials, just a bunch of "persuasive lies". Basically "look how well I can say something that is not true, and make it sound like it is true, to the uninformed". Umm, okay, but that's dumb.

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              • #67
                I think it is OK to have dissenting voices if you care to be opened for the substance, not the style in which an opinion is exposed (I do have an exception here, and that is Ron Rosedale - here is a real douche, an egocentric idiot if you ask me!).

                In the end, nothing beats one's own self-experimenting.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by FrenchFry View Post
                  Ron Rosedale - here is a real douche
                  Hmm, not heard of that guy yet.

                  Have you guys seen John McDougall speak on evolution and such (there are a lot of Youtube videos)? It's so bad, like everything he says is a blatant lie. He'll start with something that is semi fact-based and then spin it into total fantasy land. I mean the stuff a lot of these people are saying IS false, and they DO know that.

                  And then there's this blatant used car salesman thing going on too. How can people possibly believe this stuff I always wonder? Why not do a simple spot checking of facts?

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by KimchiNinja View Post
                    Oh that Aragon douche, forgot all about that guy! Yeah Peat, Aragon, Stone, McDougall, Campbell, who cares..
                    Haha... yeah. I looked into Peat recently out of interest, that guy is such a weirdo. Won't eat strawberries because they have too much PUFA, thinks it's a good idea to drink gallons of milk BY ITSELF (the mere thought of that makes me bloated and nauseous), thinks it's a good idea to take aspirin every day, what else... OH YEAH, he's obsessed with avoiding stress yet he drinks lots of coffee because he thinks coffee is a vitamin. I mean, I like coffee too, but I don't pretend like it's good for me. It's a stress-amplifier, that's why it gives you such a burst of energy. For someone who hates stress so much, he sure likes drinking his cup of liquid stress. Maybe he wouldn't be so stressed out if he just switched to decaf? Old people are more sensitive to caffeine, yanno!

                    Not to mention trying to follow such a highly neurotic diet is stressful in it's own right, probably more stressful for you than just eating all the "bad" foods he thinks you shouldn't eat.

                    His dietary guidelines aren't even consolidated in one place, it's just a bunch of random articles and interviews that people have pieced together and interpreted, so that just adds to the confusion.

                    The only thing I like about him is he understands the glory of sugar and gelatin.


                    Stone isn't so bad, he introduced me to the importance of metabolism. His solutions to improving to metabolism though, are pretty lame, it's just "eat SHIATLOADS OF FOOD, LOTS OF SALT, DON'T DRINK WATER"... he even says to eat salt by itself. I think he just likes being controversial and making lots of noise.


                    Originally posted by KimchiNinja View Post
                    These people come out of nowhere, most have zero serious credentials, just a bunch of "persuasive lies". Basically "look how well I can say something that is not true, and make it sound like it is true, to the uninformed". Umm, okay, but that's dumb.
                    Well, to be fair, credentials are overrated. Some of the worst dietary advice comes from people with credentials.

                    Plus, Mark's only credentials are his six-pack abs. Not dissing him, a lot of what he says is good stuff, but it's not like he has a PhD or anything. He's just an athlete who got sick of eating junk food and raping his body with excessive exercise and tried to find a better way.

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                    • #70
                      I mean most of what is in there makes sense somewhat - which just means that the "paleo" he was trying to debunk is just the part of it that don't work and have mostly been removed anyway.
                      What to do: Eat real food, enjoy your food, get out into the sun as often as possible, move around, sleep well and early (like before 11 p.m.), have health as your main goal.

                      You are probably going to fail if you: Restrict carbs or fat or calories, avoid fruit (because sugar derp), punish yourself with diet/exercise, have weight loss as your only goal,....

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by God View Post
                        Haha... yeah. I looked into Peat recently out of interest, that guy is such a weirdo. Won't eat strawberries because they have too much PUFA, thinks it's a good idea to drink gallons of milk BY ITSELF (the mere thought of that makes me bloated and nauseous), thinks it's a good idea to take aspirin every day, what else... OH YEAH, he's obsessed with avoiding stress yet he drinks lots of coffee because he thinks coffee is a vitamin. I mean, I like coffee too, but I don't pretend like it's good for me. It's a stress-amplifier, that's why it gives you such a burst of energy. For someone who hates stress so much, he sure likes drinking his cup of liquid stress. Maybe he wouldn't be so stressed out if he just switched to decaf? Old people are more sensitive to caffeine, yanno!
                        HA! Well, you got further than I did. Tried reading Peat; way too much micro-thinking, and thus disjointed, strange and lacking in perspective. Ran for my sanity...

                        I guess out of all of them I like Cordain best. He enters the study early, after Eaton, and builds on what Eaton started, much improving it. Gotta respect a dude that is on the scene that early and paves the way. He's strikes me as simply being interested in the study of past human diets; he looks at the evidence, and accepts what it tells him. He might be wrong on a few things (like saturated fat and salt), but he's working off the actual evidence of what people ate, so it could be WE who are wrong. And even if he's wrong, it's an honest mistake, he's not intentionally trying to lie to the public to sell a product. So he's got my respect.

                        Mark is just a middle man, he takes the knowns on past human diets, and makes it practical/appealing for the general public. Marketing. That's a necessary service. Mark also has the best forum, so here I am.

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by KimchiNinja View Post
                          Hmm, not heard of that guy yet.

                          Have you guys seen John McDougall speak on evolution and such (there are a lot of Youtube videos)?
                          No, but I heard about the guy from Stephan Guyenet's blog:

                          Whole Health Source: Thoughts on the McDougall Advanced Study Weekend

                          If your read the comment section, he sometimes mentions what he thinks of the "McDougall crowd". I can't help but think these people are nuts to some extent, e.g.

                          Originally posted by Stephan Guyenet
                          They tend to have low muscle mass. Neal Barnard looks like he's starving, and a number of others looked similar.

                          I think part of it is the low-calorie-density diet that's lower in protein, and particularly lower in high-quality protein, and part of it is the fact that they don't emphasize exercise. In particular, there seemed to be very little interest in strength training.
                          Reading the description of the diet is also revealing: it is bland. You don't eat for pleasure, you eat because you have to but don't make it pleasurable (unless a McDougallite could speak up, that's my impression). To me, it has a very "protestant" undertone: life is all sacrifice and pain, don't expect any earthly rewards ...

                          No thanks!

                          At least, Jaminet with his PHD diet emphasizes one important thing: foods you eat should taste good and make you feel good instantly! As a French, it is a principle I wholly subscribe to

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by FrenchFry View Post

                            Reading the description of the diet is also revealing: it is bland. You don't eat for pleasure, you eat because you have to but don't make it pleasurable (unless a McDougallite could speak up, that's my impression). To me, it has a very "protestant" undertone: life is all sacrifice and pain, don't expect any earthly rewards ...
                            Hehe, you haven't got to the punchline yet -- Mr. Marketing Weasel has a line of equally tasteless, processed foods.

                            You guys are going to get a kick of out of this package...
                            Amazon.com : Dr. McDougall's Right Foods Organic Instant Oatmeal, Light Maple Brown Sugar, 1.3 Ounce Packets, 8-Count Boxes (Pack of 6) : Oatmeal Breakfast Cereals : Grocery & Gourmet Food

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by KimchiNinja View Post
                              HA! Well, you got further than I did. Tried reading Peat; way too much micro-thinking, and thus disjointed, strange and lacking in perspective. Ran for my sanity...

                              I guess out of all of them I like Cordain best. He enters the study early, after Eaton, and builds on what Eaton started, much improving it. Gotta respect a dude that is on the scene that early and paves the way. He's strikes me as simply being interested in the study of past human diets; he looks at the evidence, and accepts what it tells him. He might be wrong on a few things (like saturated fat and salt), but he's working off the actual evidence of what people ate, so it could be WE who are wrong. And even if he's wrong, it's an honest mistake, he's not intentionally trying to lie to the public to sell a product. So he's got my respect.

                              Mark is just a middle man, he takes the knowns on past human diets, and makes it practical/appealing for the general public. Marketing. That's a necessary service. Mark also has the best forum, so here I am.
                              That's a little strange. Despite Cordain being rather inept in the field of Paleontology to put it mildly, he also states saturated fat generally increase the formation of arterial plaque.
                              Cordains "paleoithic diet reserach" also conclude that the optimal LDL range for all humans and mammals is between 50 - 70.

                              Optimal low-density lipoprotein is 50 to 7... [J Am Coll Cardiol. 2004] - PubMed - NCBI

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by KimchiNinja View Post
                                Hehe, you haven't got to the punchline yet -- Mr. Marketing Weasel has a line of equally tasteless, processed foods.

                                You guys are going to get a kick of out of this package...
                                Amazon.com : Dr. McDougall's Right Foods Organic Instant Oatmeal, Light Maple Brown Sugar, 1.3 Ounce Packets, 8-Count Boxes (Pack of 6) : Oatmeal Breakfast Cereals : Grocery & Gourmet Food
                                Never in life would I ingest such a thing ... that is what I am saying: these guys become salesmen and lose it completely.

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