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Working out in ketosis: Primal Blueprint vs Stronglifts 5X5

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  • Working out in ketosis: Primal Blueprint vs Stronglifts 5X5

    For somebody who is transitioning to a ketogenic lifestyle (not cyclical with carb refeeds, but all out keto) would you recommend following Mark's primal blueprint regimen or something along the lines of Stronglifts 5X5/Starting Strength?

    I'm a 25yo 5'8 male, 155 pounds and around 10% body fat looking to put on a bit more muscle but mostly to lean out. I'm 2 weeks into transitioning from strict primal/paleo to full on ketosis (40g total carbs per day, 20g net carbs); I suspect i'll be all the way there in another week or so. I'm not sure whether to sign up for a gym and work on weighted squats/deadlifts 3X a week like the Stronglifts or Starting Strength programs would have it, or just continue following Mark's bodyweight protocol (LHT) 3X per week. If I choose the primal protocol, I will probably skip the sprints for a while (at least until i'm very well adapted to ketosis, as they seem to be very glycogen demanding)

    What are your thoughts?

    Here's a pic, unfortunately the only one I have right now is of me doing a wall handstand at work
    vsco_0.jpg

  • #2
    If being in ketosis is a priority, something like Stronglifts or Starting Strength probably wouldn't go very well. Personally, I wouldn't want to be doing multiple sets of heavy squats without some fruit or sweet potatoes in my belly . Mark's routine or a similar bodyweight program would be the better choice. You might be able to do a barbell program with slower weight increases. Do some research on 5/3/1.
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    • #3
      Also, I have my own olympic barbell (6 foot) with 70 pounds added weight on it (for a total of 110, I believe)
      Would incorporating this into the LHT routine result in better gains/hypertrophy than working toward something like pistol squats, perhaps? Or should I stick with the unmodified LHT workouts?
      I think i'm tending toward just continuing the primal bodyweight thing... my ultimate goal is to get better at gymnastics/messing around at the ring park, anyway...I would just like to lean out a bit more and figured lean mass would be the best way to lose a little extra belly fat

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      • #4
        Additionally, does anybody have any positive experience using kettlebells in ketosis, or are they too glycogen demanding?

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        • #5
          If you are 25 and so thin why not just go all out now and do regular SS while eating more? I wish I had done that when I was younger. Just a thought... I understand everyone has different goals/desires.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by StupidFatHobbit View Post
            If you are 25 and so thin why not just go all out now and do regular SS while eating more? I wish I had done that when I was younger. Just a thought... I understand everyone has different goals/desires.
            ^ This.

            Probably better to focus on a lean bulk rather than focus on fat loss at all.
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            • #7
              Well the reason i'm going ahead with the nutritional ketosis experiment is that so far it has been wonderful to 1) alleviate my poor digestion/IBS that I continued to experience on standard paleo/moderate carb eating and 2) curb my cravings and constant preoccupation with food that I experience whenever I eat carbs (particularly fruit but really all carbs)
              I'm doing 40g total/20g net carbs per day now for the next few weeks, and then i'll up them to 50-100 total carbs but I think i'll remain in that zone pretty much indefinitely, as i'm really enjoying the way I feel on this way of eating.

              What would you recommend for a lean bulk? Can I do this as effectively on a high fat low carb diet? I'm not looking to get huge, i'm mostly satisfied with my degree of lean mass now; I would just like to lean out/reveal the abs a bit more.

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              • #8
                I would do a HIT workout 1-2x/week. Something like that from Body by Science or that Drew Bayes does would work.

                High Intensity Training by Drew Baye - Bodybuilding, Nutrition, Fitness and Health

                Seriously, low carb and HIT were made for each other. Less frequent workouts of high intensity and short duration that still provide a huge stimulus for muscle growth.

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                • #9
                  Thanks Neckhammer - I like that idea. Could a bodyweight HIT protocal be as effective, or must I sign up for a gym and use the machines for this sort of thing? That's what kept me from starting Body by Science...the only gym around here with Nautilus machines is realllly frickin expensive

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                  • #10
                    You might want to check out Peter Attia's The Eating Academy | Peter Attia, M.D. The Eating Academy | Peter Attia, M.D. He's an expert on ketosis and does some crazy workouts--just search his site for "ketosis".

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by NothingLasts View Post
                      Thanks Neckhammer - I like that idea. Could a bodyweight HIT protocal be as effective, or must I sign up for a gym and use the machines for this sort of thing? That's what kept me from starting Body by Science...the only gym around here with Nautilus machines is realllly frickin expensive
                      Yeah, you can do bodyweight. In fact thats why I linked to Drew's site. He has some bodyweight routines in there and isn't nearly as machine focused as some HIT proponents. Its more about the principles. Seriously just surf his stuff. Lots of good info and its free!

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                      • #12
                        I would recommend sitting on the couch or sleeping. About all nutritional ketosis is good for, athletically.

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                        • #13
                          I would never do/recommend someone do a strength training program such as a 5x5 while on a ketogenic diet. It's just silly, I'm sorry.

                          Is there a specific reason you want to go on a ketogenic diet? You said you wish to build muscle, and a ketogenic diet is not exactly the holy grail of macronutrient compositions when it comes to muscle building.
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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by NothingLasts View Post
                            For somebody who is transitioning to a ketogenic lifestyle (not cyclical with carb refeeds, but all out keto) would you recommend following Mark's primal blueprint regimen or something along the lines of Stronglifts 5X5/Starting Strength?

                            I'm a 25yo 5'8 male, 155 pounds and around 10% body fat looking to put on a bit more muscle but mostly to lean out. I'm 2 weeks into transitioning from strict primal/paleo to full on ketosis (40g total carbs per day, 20g net carbs); I suspect i'll be all the way there in another week or so. I'm not sure whether to sign up for a gym and work on weighted squats/deadlifts 3X a week like the Stronglifts or Starting Strength programs would have it, or just continue following Mark's bodyweight protocol (LHT) 3X per week. If I choose the primal protocol, I will probably skip the sprints for a while (at least until i'm very well adapted to ketosis, as they seem to be very glycogen demanding)

                            What are your thoughts?

                            Here's a pic, unfortunately the only one I have right now is of me doing a wall handstand at work
                            [ATTACH]12636[/ATTACH]
                            My thoughts are:

                            1.) You're 25 years old, lean and weigh 155 lbs pounds. You shouldn't be trying to lean out, you should be trying to get bigger and stronger. Gain quality weight.

                            2.) Eat carbs. You are not going to get strong without carbs. Period. Fat is NOT anabolic. Fat sucks for gaining quality weight. Protein and carbohydrate rule because they generate more testosterone, speed up your thyroid and are not directly stored as fat. Fat calories are the last calories you want for lean mass gain and athletic performance.

                            3.) It is important to understand what ketosis is. Glucose is absolutely essential - so essential that your body has over eons evolved ways to break down lean body mass into glucose to fuel your brain, and has developed other supplemental sources (ketones) to help your brain run. Even in full ketosis, you still require glucose, and it is so important your body will devour your organs, muscles and connective tissue to get it. Ketosis is designed to help you survive during periods of starvation. Its function is to not help physical performance. Ketosis is the worst state to be in to encourage muscle growth because a ketogenic diet is a diet that is designed to devour your muscles to fuel you when there is no food and preserve your fat tissue. It is the ultimate catabolic state - it is a starvation metabolism. Literally.

                            Don't do it. Lift heavy, eat more, drop your fats, eat a lot more carbs and eat around 250g of protein a day at your weight. Deadlift, squats and presses are your friends. Eat 1-1.5g/lb body weight of carbs on rest days, 2-2.5g/lb of body weight on workout days. That puts you at 150-225g on rest days and 300-375g on workout days. Try and keep fats under 35% total calories. You'll do great if you're lifting heavy and properly.

                            Read these pages:

                            But I Eat Sooooo Much! | Lift Big Eat Big

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                            Reverse Pyramid Revisited

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                            Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 08-19-2013, 09:01 PM.
                            Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Zach View Post
                              I would recommend sitting on the couch or sleeping. About all nutritional ketosis is good for, athletically.
                              You forgot starving to death. Everyone enters ketosis right before they starve to death. That's why it exists after all - to preserve your body fat and devour your muscle. When you lose your muscle, you still survive. When you run out of fat, you're dead.
                              Originally posted by jakejoh10 View Post
                              I would never do/recommend someone do a strength training program such as a 5x5 while on a ketogenic diet. It's just silly, I'm sorry.

                              Is there a specific reason you want to go on a ketogenic diet? You said you wish to build muscle, and a ketogenic diet is not exactly the holy grail of macronutrient compositions when it comes to muscle building.
                              I'm guessing the misleading nature of the carbohydrate curve. People forget The Primal Blueprint was written for older folks that have been overweight for many years, often their entire lives. For someone like that, 150g of carbs a day is surely enough because their energy expenditure is likely so low they don't need the calories. A 25 year old kid interesting in lifting needs probably 300g a day on average to see any real progress. Larger, experienced men often eat 500+g of carbohydrate a day.
                              Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 08-19-2013, 09:04 PM.
                              Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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