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Working out in ketosis: Primal Blueprint vs Stronglifts 5X5

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  • #16
    Originally posted by NothingLasts View Post
    For somebody who is transitioning to a ketogenic lifestyle (not cyclical with carb refeeds, but all out keto) would you recommend following Mark's primal blueprint regimen or something along the lines of Stronglifts 5X5/Starting Strength?

    I'm a 25yo 5'8 male, 155 pounds and around 10% body fat looking to put on a bit more muscle but mostly to lean out. I'm 2 weeks into transitioning from strict primal/paleo to full on ketosis (40g total carbs per day, 20g net carbs); I suspect i'll be all the way there in another week or so. I'm not sure whether to sign up for a gym and work on weighted squats/deadlifts 3X a week like the Stronglifts or Starting Strength programs would have it, or just continue following Mark's bodyweight protocol (LHT) 3X per week. If I choose the primal protocol, I will probably skip the sprints for a while (at least until i'm very well adapted to ketosis, as they seem to be very glycogen demanding)

    What are your thoughts?

    Here's a pic, unfortunately the only one I have right now is of me doing a wall handstand at work
    [ATTACH]12636[/ATTACH]
    your carbs don't actually need to be that low to stay in ketosis- get yourself a meter if your going to do this, i can eat around 65 and be over 2 and i'm nowhere near as active as you. with a meter you can identify your own limits. i drop out at 75
    keep in mind here that you have virtually no fat of your own to drive ketosis- if it cant use fats or carbs your body might use muscle for energy so get it right
    When I'd had enough of the grain and starched based 'diabetic eating for health' diet (eating for health, my ass!) my weight was 242.5 lbs. On starting primal- 18th April 2013 weight : 238.1.
    27th July 2013. weight after 100 days 136.9 weight lost 101.2lb ; that's 105.6lbs since I stopped the 'diabetic eating for health'
    new journal http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...ml#post1264082

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    • #17
      Hey. I'm 2.5 weeks into ketosis and still lifting heavy. What I do is more like 5x5 than Marks stuff but it's not actually 5x5.

      I've definitely noticed strength inconsistencies. Some days I'm like superman and other days it's just crap.

      But in 2 weeks I've lost like 9lb and I can see a massive difference so I'm not going to complain about probably a 10% strength loss, which comes and goes. I got a 100kg squat the other day which is actually a PR, and that was in the first week of keto, so..

      My main goal right now is fat loss. For the last 8 months I was trying to gain strength and lose fat but it just didn't work well for me. My weight stayed the same, I did get stronger, and I did lose a bit of body fat, but it was too slow for me. So I decided to do keto as a means of switching goals and committing to losing more fat before going back to a strength focus.

      There's a forum on reddit I think called ketogains which is about people more in your situation?

      Current weight lost: 82.9lb (37.6kg)

      Current PRs:
      Bench: 45kg/99lb
      Squat: 100kg/220lb
      Deadlift: 120kg/265lb

      My blog
      My journal

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      • #18
        Also check out eatingacademy.com if you haven't already!! (you probably have)
        Current weight lost: 82.9lb (37.6kg)

        Current PRs:
        Bench: 45kg/99lb
        Squat: 100kg/220lb
        Deadlift: 120kg/265lb

        My blog
        My journal

        Comment


        • #19
          OK, thanks for all the suggestions. I'm not so much interested in a big bulk-up as I am leaning out and reaping the non-performance/aesthetic advantages that high fat low/carb has shown me a taste of so far (improved digestion, appetite control, stable energy levels). So how about this for a revised game plan:

          Low carb (<100g/day) high fat (~150-200g) on rest days (4 days/week)
          Higher carb, lower fat (~150g) on workout days (bodyweight/gymnastics work, thrice weekly) with the majority of those carbs coming from the PWO meal
          Protein constant at ~150g/day (1g per pound bodyweight)

          Can I remain lean, perhaps even lean out a bit more on this plan, or will the PWO carbs cause midsection bloating? I'm not looking to pack on a load of muscle mass, but rather to maintain what I have and to lean out a tad more (reveal abs). Think a gymnast's physique, not a bodybuilders. And I really like what the high fat part of this experiment has done for me so far in terms of better energy levels/appetite control/improved digestion so I don't want to be doing 200 grams of carbs daily; i'd much rather cycle in and out of a fat burning metabolism if possible.

          Please critique; particularly ChocoTaco, who has provided many kcal for thought

          Comment


          • #20
            Strong Lifts goes well in my experience with Cyclic Ketonic cycles. Lean Gains did not work well for me. For cyclic ketonic though you have to stay under 30 g carbs for keto portion of the diet to be effective.
            My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
            When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by NothingLasts View Post
              OK, thanks for all the suggestions. I'm not so much interested in a big bulk-up as I am leaning out and reaping the non-performance/aesthetic advantages that high fat low/carb has shown me a taste of so far (improved digestion, appetite control, stable energy levels). So how about this for a revised game plan:

              Low carb (<100g/day) high fat (~150-200g) on rest days (4 days/week)
              Higher carb, lower fat (~150g) on workout days (bodyweight/gymnastics work, thrice weekly) with the majority of those carbs coming from the PWO meal
              Protein constant at ~150g/day (1g per pound bodyweight)

              Can I remain lean, perhaps even lean out a bit more on this plan, or will the PWO carbs cause midsection bloating? I'm not looking to pack on a load of muscle mass, but rather to maintain what I have and to lean out a tad more (reveal abs). Think a gymnast's physique, not a bodybuilders. And I really like what the high fat part of this experiment has done for me so far in terms of better energy levels/appetite control/improved digestion so I don't want to be doing 200 grams of carbs daily; i'd much rather cycle in and out of a fat burning metabolism if possible.

              Please critique; particularly ChocoTaco, who has provided many kcal for thought
              if you can't see your abs, you're nowhere near 10% bodyfat

              Body Fat Percentage Pictures of Men & Women - BuiltLean

              Comment


              • #22
                Leida - When you say under 30g carbs, do you mean total or net? For the past few weeks I have been around 40g total/20g net.

                not on the rug - Wow, that's an enlightening surprise...I guess that means that I'm somewhere between 15-20% BF, then!

                2013-08-20 15.32.56.jpg2013-08-20 15.33.13.jpg

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                • #23
                  And my cheap calipers were reading 10%...such trash

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    If you're craving carbs all the time...there may be a reason. I was until I tracked my food intake for a few days and saw that I was way undereating, like 1,000 cals below BMR, on a regular basis. So now I'm eating more and feeling better and not really craving anything. I don't shoot for ketosis though--I eat bananas, strawberries, apples, potatoes, sweet potatoes, salads, carrots, onions, broccoli and cauliflower, green beans all the time. Not tons, but regularly...it's all so good, especially the stuff I grow myself, and I like knowing I'm eating nutritiously.

                    If you don't provide your body with the nutrition it needs to do demanding lifts or handle other stresses in life, it will win (over your desire for aesthetics or your desire to push yourself beyond sustainable levels). You'll develop injuries, lose energy, etc. Been there. Not fun.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      I've been eating between 2500 and 2900 kcal/day and have not been craving/obsessively preoccupied with food, like I was, since I cut the carbs. It appears so far to be the psychologically healthier decision. So far my appearance, focus, digestive health and sleep appear to have improved. There are also plenty of active folks who have great success eating this way on a fairly long term basis. I am, however, fully prepared to drop out of LC if I begin noticing any of these problems you all mention.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
                        Yeah, you can do bodyweight. In fact thats why I linked to Drew's site. He has some bodyweight routines in there and isn't nearly as machine focused as some HIT proponents. Its more about the principles. Seriously just surf his stuff. Lots of good info and its free!
                        Yes.. if there's one thing I've learnt from watching prison movies, it's that bodyweight exercises...(especially while in solitary)... is more then enough to get you uber buff enough to start taking names and kicking arse when you get out!

                        But on a serious note, thanks Neckhammer for the link as there's info on there that I've been looking for
                        I don't believe there is one correct way of eating for everybody, and I don't believe there is one correct way of eating for a person through every stage of their life

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Sweet Leilani View Post
                          Yes.. if there's one thing I've learnt from watching prison movies, it's that bodyweight exercises...(especially while in solitary)... is more then enough to get you uber buff enough to start taking names and kicking arse when you get out!

                          But on a serious note, thanks Neckhammer for the link as there's info on there that I've been looking for
                          Very true. Just adjust leverage.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            What do you guys think about doing low carb/high fat 5 days a week for the non-gaining benefits that I had mentioned (improved digestion, energy level, mood, leanness etc) and employing a twice weekly carb refeed on LHT days (125g preworkout, 125g post, lower fat of course. Probably all in berries and Okinowan purple sweet potatoes, one food that I do sorely miss since beginning this ketogenic stint...)
                            Something along the lines of a TKD (targeted ketogenic diet)
                            Are the low carb rest day periods of the week sufficiently long enough for me to slip back into a ketogenic state?

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by NothingLasts View Post
                              What do you guys think about doing low carb/high fat 5 days a week for the non-gaining benefits that I had mentioned (improved digestion, energy level, mood, leanness etc) and employing a twice weekly carb refeed on LHT days (125g preworkout, 125g post, lower fat of course. Probably all in berries and Okinowan purple sweet potatoes, one food that I do sorely miss since beginning this ketogenic stint...)
                              Something along the lines of a TKD (targeted ketogenic diet)
                              Are the low carb rest day periods of the week sufficiently long enough for me to slip back into a ketogenic state?
                              you'll have to experiment with this type of re-feed and let us know. personally, I vary my carbs depending on my workouts. on days I bike, kayak, hike, or do any other sort of activities, I go normal protein, higher fat, and lower carb. on days I lift, box, or do hiit stuff, I go normal protein, higher carb and lower fat. it works for me. personally, I can't do any sort of intense exercise without a reasonable amount of carbs in my body that day.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by NothingLasts View Post
                                Additionally, does anybody have any positive experience using kettlebells in ketosis, or are they too glycogen demanding?
                                I've tried this and it was a disaster. Ever since then I eat enough carbs in the form of fruit, white rice and potatoes. You do need carbs if you do actual strength training with kettlebells. You can probably get away with very low carb if you only do conditioning work, but I still wouldn't recommend it. That said, it's your body, so why not try it?

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