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  • ^^^ Everyone knows that mitochondria best hypertrophy with high rep kettleballs in rooms of about 103 degrees. Duh man

    But all fun aside, the pseudo-science that fills these last 12 pages makes to where I can actually feel by IQ lowering as I scroll.
    "The soul that does not attempt flight; does not notice its chains."

    Comment


    • Originally posted by TheyCallMeLazarus View Post
      ^^^ Everyone knows that mitochondria best hypertrophy with high rep kettleballs in rooms of about 103 degrees. Duh man

      But all fun aside, the pseudo-science that fills these last 12 pages makes to where I can actually feel by IQ lowering as I scroll.
      THeyCallMELazarus - i haven't seen you in a while.......something's different......no not your hair.....have you been working out your mitochondria???

      Comment


      • "Believe it or not: "science" is subjective"

        Actually no, it isn't. Whether or not Moby Dick is literary genius is subjective. Good scotch is subjective. Whether or not your mitochondria require high fructose, broken down, to function well can be studied, broken down, and analyzed to the point that reasonable conclusions can be made. When one makes a scientific statement, one is making a statement about a naturally occurring reality that they have hypothesized, studied, and verified repeatedly.

        Science is always under debate, but it is most certainly not subjective. As a proverb says "Mathematics is not an opinion."
        "The soul that does not attempt flight; does not notice its chains."

        Comment


        • Science isn't subjective, but it's wrong a lot, distorted, and cherrypicked and most of these people are gullible enough to believe anything. Any jackass can search for any article on pubmed claiming x is harmful, but they often fail to read the whole article which, is, more than likely in a made up clinical setting with a small sample size of rodents in a short testing phase. Being fed pure crystalline fructose in unreasonable concentrations is a rather absurd for drawing a conclusion that eating fruit is harmful at all.

          I can find hundreds of thousands of similar trials showing that consumption of meat is harmful as well, doesn't make it true.
          Make America Great Again

          Comment


          • Originally posted by TheyCallMeLazarus View Post
            "Believe it or not: "science" is subjective"

            Actually no, it isn't. Whether or not Moby Dick is literary genius is subjective. Good scotch is subjective. Whether or not your mitochondria require high fructose, broken down, to function well can be studied, broken down, and analyzed to the point that reasonable conclusions can be made. When one makes a scientific statement, one is making a statement about a naturally occurring reality that they have hypothesized, studied, and verified repeatedly.

            Science is always under debate, but it is most certainly not subjective. As a proverb says "Mathematics is not an opinion."
            I deleted my comment because I didn't want to get into a debate over it. But you replied too fast

            I used the inverted commas intentionally. A lot of the time it's not Science, it's agenda-fuelled studies. Or, even when a study is earnest, it can still be incorrect. Remember when the Atom was the smallest particle in existence?

            Truth is not subjective, but no one knows the truth.
            Last edited by YogaBare; 08-22-2013, 03:42 PM.
            "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

            In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

            - Ray Peat

            Comment


            • I would not get into a debate about superseded scientific theories with Lazarus, he still believes in an archaic theory of insulin, and thought that t4 was the active thyroid hormone.
              Make America Great Again

              Comment


              • Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                Think about it.

                You need to brush up on this subject.

                Read and understand something

                Google it.

                Read this and get back to me:

                It's a crash course.
                Thank-you for the condescension.

                Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                You need to brush up on this subject.

                1.) Protein generates as much or more insulin than carbohydrate in general. Read and understand something called "The Insulin Index" and get back to me. Google it.
                Thank you for that, I was already aware of it.

                Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                2.) Human tissue fatty acid composition is similar to pork and poultry - meaning the fats we consume influence our own fatty acid composition. Ruminants do not - they can eat corn and soy and turn out roughly the same as grass. Read this and get back to me:

                Fats and Oils: The importance of temperature

                It's a crash course.
                Uh, kinda irrelevant? You seem to do this all over the place. You come out with a generalisation that isn't universally true, but you state it as if it is (like skinny women being the epitome of beauty throughout history). Then when people call you on it, you dance away to an adjacent topic and start laying down 'facts'.

                So your point is that you want this to be a discussion about how bad polyunsaturated fats are? I'm not arguing with you there. (of course, I recently read a pro-vegan arguement against saturated fats saying that because saturated fats were solid at room temperature then you know, *of course* they clog your arteries simply by their viscious nature).

                Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                3.) I recommend reading these two posts as well:

                A Bioenergetic View of High-Fat Diets
                A Bioenergetic View of High-Fat Diets Part II, Or: How To Induce Metabolic Stress

                It's a good crash course on the similarities between diabetics and those who eat HFLC in terms of hormonal patterns. Let me know what you think.
                The articles make a few assumptions about energy oxidation that I think are not correct. In particular I don't agree that it's always correct to have a goal of an RQ of 1.0 (maximising oxygen consumption). Peter Attia had a decent series on it that included this point:
                Originally posted by Peter Attia
                •When RQ is 0.70 (i.e., when you breathing out 70% as much carbon dioxide as you are consuming oxygen), you are effectively getting all of your energy from fat.
                •When RQ is 1.00 (i.e., when you are breathing out an equal amount of carbon dioxide to the amount of oxygen you consume), you are effectively getting all of your energy from glycogen.
                But coming back to the original topic, an RQ of 70 is better if you are worried about fat, since that's when your metabolism is burning fat.

                Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                Why is the "Peatian wave" incorrect and the "Primal wave" correct?
                Since both are philosophies with a multitude of components, I don't think that you can say that either are wholly correct or incorrect. In fact, (just like with whole food vegans), peatarians, primals and 'perfects' all have a tremendous overlap. I don't think that the 'carbohydrate curve' has any substance. I'm equally sceptical of drinking any form of coca cola as 'part of a a healthy diet'.
                Last edited by magicmerl; 08-22-2013, 04:10 PM.
                Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

                Griff's cholesterol primer
                5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
                Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
                TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
                bloodorchid is always right

                Comment


                • @Yogabare

                  Yes, I agree completely with what you said. I just have a lot of sensitivity toward an "anything goes" attitude when it comes to our bodies. Something is either the truth or it is not. There is too much "study X must mean this", even though actual studies of that next theory have been done to disprove it.

                  For the ever embarrassing himself Derp...3 days off block unfortunately. I always forgive.

                  You don't know at all what I think about insulin, past your interpretation of some deliberately simplified explanations I have given in the past....and AGAIN with the post about T3. My God. You misunderstood what I said and then took it as fact, then defeated a straw man point I never made. Move on.

                  As for my "archaic" ideas, which aren't so at all....they have helped actual people, hundreds of them, who have come to me to get help from diabetes. Once your loony "guy with a website" ideas do that, I will feel a need to listen.

                  I can't handle the personal attacks on here. It's so juvenile.
                  "The soul that does not attempt flight; does not notice its chains."

                  Comment


                  • You say you are small, but how small is that? I ask because according to one calculator my maintenance calories are about 1460 a day and that includes an average of one hour a day exercise. This means to burn fat, even with my activity level, I need to eat less than that!

                    I think macros can be important but at the end of the day if you're eating more than you're burning you won't burn fat!

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by girlhk View Post
                      Kinda scary. Fish oil is recommended by ob/gyns for pregnant women to take.
                      Yes, it's the mistake that because DHA is concentrated in your brain that you need to take a DHA supplement. Your body in almost all its entirety rejects omega 3 and omega 6. It can't oxidize it well so it mostly stores it as fat. Taking fish oil is a recipe for metabolic syndrome and weight gain.
                      Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
                        Science isn't subjective, but it's wrong a lot, distorted, and cherrypicked and most of these people are gullible enough to believe anything. Any jackass can search for any article on pubmed claiming x is harmful, but they often fail to read the whole article which, is, more than likely in a made up clinical setting with a small sample size of rodents in a short testing phase. Being fed pure crystalline fructose in unreasonable concentrations is a rather absurd for drawing a conclusion that eating fruit is harmful at all.

                        I can find hundreds of thousands of similar trials showing that consumption of meat is harmful as well, doesn't make it true.
                        This is where objective thinking comes into play. It involves real research, a well-rounded understanding of issues and substantial experimenting. That's hard work. Snide remarks that contribute nothing take 10 seconds to write. Actual understanding and objective thinking is hard to come by.
                        Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by magicmerl View Post
                          Thank-you for the condescension.


                          Thank you for that, I was already aware of it.


                          Uh, kinda irrelevant? You seem to do this all over the place. You come out with a generalisation that isn't universally true, but you state it as if it is (like skinny women being the epitome of beauty throughout history). Then when people call you on it, you dance away to an adjacent topic and start laying down 'facts'.

                          So your point is that you want this to be a discussion about how bad polyunsaturated fats are? I'm not arguing with you there. (of course, I recently read a pro-vegan arguement against saturated fats saying that because saturated fats were solid at room temperature then you know, *of course* they clog your arteries simply by their viscious nature).


                          The articles make a few assumptions about energy oxidation that I think are not correct. In particular I don't agree that it's always correct to have a goal of an RQ of 1.0 (maximising oxygen consumption). Peter Attia had a decent series on it that included this point:

                          But coming back to the original topic, an RQ of 70 is better if you are worried about fat, since that's when your metabolism is burning fat.


                          Since both are philosophies with a multitude of components, I don't think that you can say that either are wholly correct or incorrect. In fact, (just like with whole food vegans), peatarians, primals and 'perfects' all have a tremendous overlap. I don't think that the 'carbohydrate curve' has any substance. I'm equally sceptical of drinking any form of coca cola as 'part of a a healthy diet'.
                          Rather than respond to this, let's get one thing clear: I don't ask questions on MDA. That's not why I come here. I come here to answer questions people have. Whether or not you listen to me is of no consequence to me. You have absolutely nothing to offer me. If you don't want my advice, don't take it.

                          The Primal Blueprint and paleo as a whole is an assumption. PUFA toxicity is a scientific fact.
                          Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by thriveful View Post
                            I think that, although we all profess to be open minded people, adopting a different way of eating to most of the world, there is an awful lot of closed minds to anything a little off centre from the primal/paleo ethos (if there is a typical one)

                            Choco seems like a pretty well self educated guy, what if his idea is right, even partly? We all scoff at CW but even though there is some understanding of diabetes, the diabetic organisations are giving out dietary advice that most of us would consider folly.

                            Not long ago, few on hear would have entertained the 'Peat' woe, more are now and seeing good results.

                            What if PUFA'S consumption IS the cause of most of these diseases and poor health and obesity, what if grain eaten without high PUFA intake is less harmful than believed.

                            You can bet your bottom dollar that in 10 years we will know more, and perhaps the sugar as a poison thing might be debunked, PUFA having to take the blame.

                            What if primal paleo eating is only making us healthy because of the drastic reduction in PUFA consumption. The interactions of our systems are not isolated, there is a symbiosis here that is still widely unknown.

                            We all have our belief systems and resistance to certain ideas, but this forum of all places should be a great place for discussion, productive debate, and open minds, seems that even us on the 'cutting edge' of nutrition are often as closed minded as the CW folks we condemn
                            Well said

                            Comment


                            • ChocoTaco369 since you kindly stated you are here to give advice I just wonder what would you recommend as an optimal diet for somebody like me. I'm very interested in what in your option would be considered as correct macros, right proportions of carbs, fat and protein intake (with calories goal and gr limits).
                              I'm 167 cm and 57.5kg (5'5" and 127lbs ), so I'm not big but I think my body fat is probably around 25%+ (just a guess, I actually don't know as I have never measured it) and I would like to loose that fat and tone up (I'm active and exercise but nothing chronic). I'm after a lean athletic/fit look, not a skinny supermodel disaster.
                              Primal lifestyle is new to me so I'm still in shock of recommended amount of healthy fat consumption and I have just started question whether I should take less fat but more carbs and protein.

                              I try to keep carbs around 85gr or at least below 100 gr, but if I slightly exceed on heavy work out day I'm not worried too much. My calorie intake is only about 1500 and I'm tracking everything on myfitnesspal just to get used to to the new way of eating.

                              There is an excellent article in today's blog about differences in fat metabolism between genders, but unfortunately Mark doesn't conclude whether women should be consuming less fat...
                              So I'm kinda lost and trying to figure out what is the best approach...

                              Comment


                              • KiteKasia, have you tried increasing the inter-prandial period (I think it is called like that, English is not my mothertongue ...) ? It's called intermittent fasting in this part of the web. I think that if you do it 2 or 3x week (like skip BF, and sometimes lunch), you can eat whatever youw ant during the evening (if you focus on proteins - carbs and fat don't matter too much but carbs in the evening make you sleep good I think).

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