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Fructose & Body Fat?

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  • Originally posted by FrenchFry View Post
    KiteKasia, have you tried increasing the inter-prandial period (I think it is called like that, English is not my mothertongue ...) ? It's called intermittent fasting in this part of the web. I think that if you do it 2 or 3x week (like skip BF, and sometimes lunch), you can eat whatever youw ant during the evening (if you focus on proteins - carbs and fat don't matter too much but carbs in the evening make you sleep good I think).
    English isn't my mother-tongue either ;-)
    Apparently intermittent fasting doesn't work that great for women, so no point in torturing myself... Should Women Fast? | Mark's Daily Apple
    I eat when I'm hungry if it means skipping breakfast simply because I just don't feel like having it I'm ok with it. But I won't be going to work hungry with a rumbling belly just for sake of doing so.
    I don't restrict my calories on purpose, it's just what I eat (and can see by tracking it)

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    • Originally posted by Graycat View Post
      With that said, my own n=1 -- the more carbs (lots of fructose) I eat more satiated I feel. Basically for me high carb diet = less calories consumed and subsequently weight loss. I also make sure I get adequate protein.
      This was working for me for so long and I didn't even know it. I had to go tinkering around trying to lose more weight and started doing HFLC and I've never been fatter. 😪

      This has all been very eye opening for me you guys, really appreciate the discussion.

      Comment


      • For Choco:

        I remember when I started on here and some of your writing helped me a lot....I don't agree with a lot of what you say, and at times your tone (and I am sure mine as well) can come off as arrogant. That said, you do put a lot of effort into researching this stuff on your own, and that makes anyone possibly come on a little too strong. I don't always agree with your interpretations, but it's more than most can say.

        Attack the ideas, not the dude. Attacking the dude makes us all look like 14 year olds.
        "The soul that does not attempt flight; does not notice its chains."

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        • Originally posted by TheyCallMeLazarus View Post
          Attacking the dude makes us all look like 14 year olds.
          Hehe, I was not even attacking dudes at 14 y.o., more like 7

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          • Taking fish oil is a recipe for metabolic syndrome and weight gain.
            Random, but I have a super lean, very fit dog who was started on fish oil for his coat and he got fat seemingly overnight, no change in food or activity, plus he became sluggish. We wrote it off to weather and never bought him more fish oil because we are cheap and it didn't help his coat. Now he is lean again and very active.

            http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
            Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

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            • And only yesterday I was looking for good fish oil supplements... I think I pass on this one!

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              • Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
                Random, but I have a super lean, very fit dog who was started on fish oil for his coat and he got fat seemingly overnight, no change in food or activity, plus he became sluggish. We wrote it off to weather and never bought him more fish oil because we are cheap and it didn't help his coat. Now he is lean again and very active.
                Yes. Fish oil contains a large amount of trans fats per volume due to the high heat refining process and the long shelf-time at high temperatures. It's mainly oxidized PUFA. Omega 3 in general slows thyroid, let alone rancid omega 3. I'd estimate your dog became hypothyroid from the supplementation.

                In addition, carbohydrate blocks free fatty acid oxidation, so I would estimate a pure carnivore would suffer much more from fish oil supplementation than a human. Our bodies convert carbohydrate into SFA and MUFA when in excess, which counteracts the PUFA. Since dogs don't eat carbohydrate and can't do this, I would imagine toxic fats would affect them much more quickly.
                Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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                • Originally posted by Iron Fireling View Post
                  You say you are small, but how small is that? I ask because according to one calculator my maintenance calories are about 1460 a day and that includes an average of one hour a day exercise. This means to burn fat, even with my activity level, I need to eat less than that!

                  I think macros can be important but at the end of the day if you're eating more than you're burning you won't burn fat!
                  There are different approaches to this - I eat for performance, and my workouts are VERY intense. My coach (who is also Primal), slaps my hands if my calories dip below 1600 and he doesn't like it THAT low. I've had several RMR tests so I do keep an eye on that. The resting metabolic rate tests may not be perfect but they are better than calculators.

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                  • Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                    Why is the "Peatian wave" incorrect and the "Primal wave" correct?
                    I didn't think you came here to ask questions? Bwahahah

                    But, in all seriousness, asking questions is a mark of an inquisitive mind. Assuming you have nothing to learn, even from those you apparently consider beneath you OR those you disagree with is quite dangerous.

                    Hey the best scientist, teachers, clinicians ect.... are not necessarily the ones with the most answers. They are the ones that can formulate and ask the best questions.

                    So I could ask for instance (as a teacher and as a student) What is the median lethal dose of PUFA? What effects that dose? Are there competing theories as to the uses and protective nature of PUFA in our diet?

                    Extra credit: Which wave takes evolutionary adaptive biology ancestral eating (i.e. Studies healthy humans) into consideration? Primal or Peat

                    So go ahead and attempt to answer. One caveat... no quoting Peat, Roddy, or Kim.... do your own homework if you will. I believe that would lead to a greater understanding for you.
                    Last edited by Neckhammer; 08-23-2013, 07:58 AM.

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                    • Originally posted by KiteKasia View Post
                      Apparently intermittent fasting doesn't work that great for women, so no point in torturing myself... Should Women Fast? | Mark's Daily Apple
                      I eat when I'm hungry if it means skipping breakfast simply because I just don't feel like having it I'm ok with it. But I won't be going to work hungry with a rumbling belly just for sake of doing so.
                      I don't restrict my calories on purpose, it's just what I eat (and can see by tracking it)
                      A lot of women have had success with intermittent fasting of various sorts. I think it may be one of those techniques that in the aggregate is more helpful to some than others, but gender-specific characteristics may be smaller than individual differences.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by eKatherine View Post
                        A lot of women have had success with intermittent fasting of various sorts. I think it may be one of those techniques that in the aggregate is more helpful to some than others, but gender-specific characteristics may be smaller than individual differences.
                        It has been brilliant for me. I don't do it the few days before my period because my body tells me very firmly not to, and I listen. But the rest of the month it comes very easily. It has helped me with my healing process (a few months ago I wouldn't have dreamt I'd ever be able to fast), sped up my fat loss and given me loads more energy. I love it!

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                        • Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
                          I didn't think you came here to ask questions? Bwahahah
                          I don't come here for non-rhetorical questions. I already knew the answer to that question.

                          The answer was the dogmatic answer. People hang onto dogma because not doing so forces them to face uncertainty. People hate uncertainty. I've done a lot of work over the past 2 years to completely abandon dogma. As a consequence, I can't fit in anywhere and everyone hates me. Primal, paleo, Peat, veganism, CW...there are right and wrong points to everything. The idea is to find the positives and negatives of each, and abandon the negatives and keep the positives. A great example I like to use is that legumes are generally more healthful than nuts. One is Primal/paleo, one is not. But it's true.
                          Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                            I don't come here for non-rhetorical questions. I already knew the answer to that question.

                            The answer was the dogmatic answer. People hang onto dogma because not doing so forces them to face uncertainty. People hate uncertainty. I've done a lot of work over the past 2 years to completely abandon dogma. As a consequence, I can't fit in anywhere and everyone hates me. Primal, paleo, Peat, veganism, CW...there are right and wrong points to everything. The idea is to find the positives and negatives of each, and abandon the negatives and keep the positives. A great example I like to use is that legumes are generally more healthful than nuts. One is Primal/paleo, one is not. But it's true.
                            Here is an observation. It just seems that you have exchanged these templates for a dogmatic view of what has worked for you. Self experimentation is greatly encouraged in this community. The trappings of that is when you find something that works exceedingly well for you it is hard to imagine why everyone isn't doing it. "If only they knew what I know then they would do what I do"... Right? Well its not always quite that black and white. There is a lot more gray. For instance, your claim on then healthfulness of legumes over nuts... why? What makes you so certain?

                            Is it that people don't survive on nuts and remain in good health? Couldn't be that:
                            Cooking Practices and Health of Hunter-Gatherers / !Kung San

                            Is it that nuts have a poor showing in epidemiological or even clinical data? Hmmm.... table 3 seems to report otherwise:

                            The effect of nut consumption on cardiovascular risk factors. Summary of scientific evidence.
                            Health Benefits of Nut Consumption

                            Variables Effect Level of evidence
                            Epidemiologic studies
                            Coronary heart disease Decrease ++
                            Sudden cardiac death Decrease +
                            Ischemic stroke No change +
                            Heart failure No change +
                            Hypertension Decrease +/-
                            Diabetes No change/decrease +/-
                            Cancer No change/decrease +/-
                            Gallstone disease Decrease +
                            Complications of diverticular disease Decrease +
                            Inflammatory markers Decrease +
                            Body weight No change/decrease ++
                            Clinical studies
                            Blood cholesterol Decrease ++
                            Insulin sensitivity No change/increase +/-
                            Blood pressure Decrease +
                            Oxidation No change/decrease +/-
                            Inflammation No change/decrease +/-
                            Vascular reactivity Increase +
                            Body weight No change ++
                            Visceral adiposity Decrease +

                            Maybe its your biochemical dogma
                            Last edited by Neckhammer; 08-23-2013, 11:29 AM.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
                              Here is an observation. It just seems that you have exchanged these templates for a dogmatic view of what has worked for you. Self experimentation is greatly encouraged in this community. The trappings of that is when you find something that works exceedingly well for you it is hard to imagine why everyone isn't doing it. "If only they knew what I know then they would do what I do"... Right? Well its not always quite that black and white. There is a lot more gray. For instance, your claim on then healthfulness of legumes over nuts... why? What makes you so certain?\
                              I don't comment on minutia. For example, regarding carbohydrate: I like to get my carbohydrate largely from potatoes, plantains and seasonal fruit. Perhaps you're die-hard set on apples, hate watermelon, hate white potatoes, love sweet potatoes and hate bananas. Find the healthy carbohydrate source for you - that is fine. That is where the variance comes in. However, what I will staunchly not support:

                              1.) Significant carbohydrate from grain.
                              2.) Significant carbohydrate from refined sugar.

                              Because they are nutrient-poor sources of carbohydrate. That isn't dogma - that is fact. There is nothing positive you can get from refined sugar and wheat flour that you can't get from potatoes and mangoes.

                              Similar with fat. I prefer ruminant meat for health - but if you don't like beef and lamb and enjoy pork, chicken, egg and fish, I won't fault you. It's not as good, but it's still fine. What I will never advocate is:

                              1.) Fats from refined PUFA oils.
                              2.) Trans fat sources (see #1).

                              That is not dogma, that is fact.

                              Macro-exclusion is similar. You don't see me arguing against low-fat diets because no one here is doing low-fat dieting. Low-carbohydrate is as problematic (or possibly more problematic) than low-fat diet for the majority of people, so I won't recommend it. As most people on this site follow low-carbohydrate diets, it's a huge problem and a big reason why people can't hit their goals be it at the gym or on the scale.

                              A gray area is "grains are bad." No. Nixtamalized maize and white rice really aren't bad. A gray area is that "legumes are bad." Actually, most legumes are healthier than nuts when proper preparation is taken.

                              "Refined high-PUFA vegetable oil is bad" is NOT a gray area. That is bad 100% of the time.
                              Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                              Comment



                              • So I could ask for instance (as a teacher and as a student) What is the median lethal dose of PUFA? What effects that dose? Are there competing theories as to the uses and protective nature of PUFA in our diet?
                                I would like to hear more about this, or point me to some research.

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