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  • #16
    Originally posted by Emelie View Post
    I'm sitting here trying to make a plan, schedule my workouts and the carb refeed day.

    Is it better to eat Very low carb (and low protein perhaps?) or eating a regular primal diet the days I'm not refeeding? Or switching between them all?
    Low protein never works for me. Never. You need to eat enough protein each week to average out to your daily requirement, though you can have heavier protein days and lighter protein days.

    The purpose of a refeed is to make up for the fact that you are restricting. If you're not eating a diet that doesn't meet your needs, you shouldn't need that, or at least not very much.

    And the last question for now, when I'm done with all this, maybe when I reach my goal or sooner, what do you guys think will happen? I think it is all right to do this kind of challenge for a shorter period of time, but I can't see myself planning and doing this for the rest of my life. Will I continue eating around 1600 cals, plan refeed days and never enjoy a few nuts once I'm done?
    Of course you can eat "a few" nuts "on occasion", at least once you reach your goal. Are you able to carefully measure them out and use them to displace other foods, or will it go back to being an out of control food for you?

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Emelie View Post
      I'm sitting here trying to make a plan, schedule my workouts and the carb refeed day.

      Is it better to eat Very low carb (and low protein perhaps?) or eating a regular primal diet the days I'm not refeeding? Or switching between them all?

      Should I start with two carb refeeding days or just one? I guess I will be pretty stiff the second day because I'm planning on doing some serious weightlifting and HIIT that day, not sure if I can handle two days in a row really. Can I try calorie cycling at the same time or will this be too much for my body? If I can, is it better to eat less the days I eat primal/vlc or on the refeed?

      And the last question for now, when I'm done with all this, maybe when I reach my goal or sooner, what do you guys think will happen? I think it is all right to do this kind of challenge for a shorter period of time, but I can't see myself planning and doing this for the rest of my life. Will I continue eating around 1600 cals, plan refeed days and never enjoy a few nuts once I'm done? Off course I will eat a primal diet for the rest of my life. I feel so discouraged to do something like this and maybe lose a few pounds and once I'm back to not worrying too much I will gain it all back. It is much like jojo dieting which i'm sick of. My only wish in life is never to worry about my weight again, just eat what I'm meant to eat in the right amounts and be happy. I wish my hormones could work and do all the job for me.

      Btw (you can skip this if you'd like), after I read yesterdays post on the blog I ordered 4 kg grassfed beef liver and kidneys from a local farm, will arrive in a month after the slaughter. I love liver pate but hate beef liver as it is, but that might help me heal my metabolism. I'm also defrosting some marrow bones right now to put in the slow cooker tonight.
      I have done both carb and calorie cycling before. You can implement both in a variety of ways...

      A: Either fast until dinner on low calorie days and then eat a big meal of protein and fat (low carb) and then eat 2x the same for the low carb high calorie days (lunch & dinner), and then 1 high carb high cal day per every week or 2.

      B:You can also just vary the calories by 200 cals and it still will work but supposedly it works better with huge caloric gaps.

      How frequently you refeed depends on how lean you are. I am varying around every 1-2 weeks based on life/work but the leaner you are the more you should refeed. There is a chart somewhere for males but not for females so
      I just approximate for me. I would put my hardest training on the day after carb refeed.

      I eat at least 100g protein every day. I am a relatively athletic female at 5'9" so I need the protein. I suspect you do too to prevent major muscle loss from dieting.

      As for long term, you should ultimately find a diet that works for your schedule and genetics and it should stop feeling like a diet and transition into a way of life. For me, I counted calories religiously for 2 years while experimenting with a whole bunch of nutrient ratios and ended up stop counting calories now that I eat 2 large meals most days of meat butter and eggs supplemented with some fermented veggies. I probably eat way more calories than when I was counting to 1600 cals, eating quinoa/avocado/spinach/kale/olive oil/chicken and exercising 6x a week for an hour. The last time I counted now I eat 2000+ cals of butter beef/lamb/liver/eggs. I lift 2-4x a week and do resistance elliptical 1-2x for short intervals. I am slowly getting leaner and putting on muscle without trying. Your story might be different. I still love nuts and nut butters (friends used to set my caller ID pic to JIF jar) but I don't buy them anymore. If I have a craving I will get a small snack pack from the vending machine or store of cashews/peanuts and eat that. I think this is not longer a diet for me but a way of life.

      In essence, I listed a bunch of suggestions bc I have pretty much tried them all and have only retained the ones that worked for me. I didn't suggest for you to try them all at once or for you to implement them ALL permanently. good luck!


      Journal: www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread87464.html
      Last edited by turquoisepassion; 08-14-2013, 07:21 AM.
      ------
      HCLF: lean red meat, eggs, low-fat dairy, bone broth/gelatin, fruits, seafood, liver, small amount of starch (oatmeal, white rice, potatoes, carrots), small amount of saturated fat (butter/ghee/coconut/dark chocolate/cheese).

      My Journal: gelatin experiments, vanity pictures, law school rants, recipe links


      Food blog: GELATIN and BONE BROTH recipes

      " The best things in life are free and the 2nd best are expensive!" - Coco Chanel

      Comment


      • #18
        Mot really sure why you are looking to calorie/carb cycling at this stage, these are kind of 'advanced' techniques for when you are really trying to hit ideal body comp IMHO.

        I would choose a macro schedule, then set an approx calorie load per day, eat to it for 2 weeks and reassess. Without setting a calorie/macro baseline, it becomes hard to know what is actually working.

        Do a big meal and overeat a bit/ have some treats once a week, for dinner, not all day, and monitor changes.

        Some people can avoid looking at intake numbers, others need to pay close attention, at least for a while

        Comment


        • #19
          we can't tell you what will happen in the future. we're just peeps on the internet, not fortune-tellers.

          pick a plan and stick to it for at least 2 weeks. see what happens. personally, i did well tracking my intake on fatsecret and now like cronometer since it tracks micros too. programs like those give you hard data so you can really see what you're doing and what might need changing.

          agree about the protein. it's the most sating. don't skimp and use calorie/nutrient dense sources like red meat, offal, fatty fish, shellfish and eggs. with foods like those you don't need to "add" fat to your diet -- it's already on the plate.

          as for this:

          My only wish in life is never to worry about my weight again, just eat what I'm meant to eat in the right amounts and be happy[
          finding that happy place will take some work and will probably not be what it was. you will need to make adjustments and they will need to be for life. eating a few nuts is not the same as eating 1000 cals worth everyday. an ounce of almonds is only about 20, ya know? but after awhile, you stop thinking about them as a staple and it no longer feels like deprivation. 1600 cals may be all you need, or you may find your body tolerates more. or less. it's all n~1.

          have you had your d levels checked? i discovered mine were quite low. after i got them back up with d3 supps, and began taking k2 as well, foods that i craved, like nuts and cheese, no longer were problem foods for me. we can't always tell what the body is asking for, so it's important to get yourself balanced and create an environment in which to listen better.



          As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

          Ernest Hemingway

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Diamondl88

            If you think due to one or two reasons you can eliminate these factors, then I will advise
            you to try weight loss supplements such as the fat burners and appetite suppressants. They
            will help you a lot in you quest to lose weight.
            jeebus. or just smoke meth.

            those appetite suppressant pills are awful for you.
            As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

            Ernest Hemingway

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by thriveful View Post
              Mot really sure why you are looking to calorie/carb cycling at this stage, these are kind of 'advanced' techniques for when you are really trying to hit ideal body comp IMHO.
              +1 to this. Carb cycling and refeeding are prmarily for people who want to get a really good six-pack (stomach muscles), or for people who do heavy workouts.

              IF (intermittent fasting), i.e. skipping meals is also optional. By the way, the meal that you skip does not have to be breakfast. You could eat a big breakfast and skip dinner.

              For the moment it's better to dump the nuts and get your calories down to ~1700 and see where that takes you.
              5'0" female, 45 years old. Started Primal October 31, 2011, at a skinny fat 111.5 lbs. Low weight: 99.5 lb on a fast. Gained back to 115(!) on SAD chocolate, potato chips, and stress. Currently 111.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by noodletoy View Post
                we can't tell you what will happen in the future. we're just peeps on the internet, not fortune-tellers.

                pick a plan and stick to it for at least 2 weeks. see what happens. personally, i did well tracking my intake on fatsecret and now like cronometer since it tracks micros too. programs like those give you hard data so you can really see what you're doing and what might need changing.

                agree about the protein. it's the most sating. don't skimp and use calorie/nutrient dense sources like red meat, offal, fatty fish, shellfish and eggs. with foods like those you don't need to "add" fat to your diet -- it's already on the plate.

                as for this:



                finding that happy place will take some work and will probably not be what it was. you will need to make adjustments and they will need to be for life. eating a few nuts is not the same as eating 1000 cals worth everyday. an ounce of almonds is only about 20, ya know? but after awhile, you stop thinking about them as a staple and it no longer feels like deprivation. 1600 cals may be all you need, or you may find your body tolerates more. or less. it's all n~1.

                have you had your d levels checked? i discovered mine were quite low. after i got them back up with d3 supps, and began taking k2 as well, foods that i craved, like nuts and cheese, no longer were problem foods for me. we can't always tell what the body is asking for, so it's important to get yourself balanced and create an environment in which to listen better.




                Thank you!

                I feel like I have been trying different macro-ratios a lot, both higher carb (around 100 grams a day), moderate around 50 and keto with close to zero carbs. I have tried eating more than 100-120 but then my energy goes way down during afternoon with my blood sugar and I don't want that No change on the scale though.

                I have the same program as the swedish dieticians use for food tracking on my computer and I've used that for calorie counting and macro tracking when I have bothered so I will use that more often the upcoming weeks.

                Yes I've checked my vitamin D levels, I live in the most northern parts of sweden and if the 45 degree rule is right we just get our Vit D during two hours a day in june-july. I was seriously low all winters before I started taking vit D supplements about the same time I got primal. My levels are all right now. I don't really crave nuts, I just get so hungry between meals sometimes and never have anything better to snack on. Maybe I'll try making my own jerky. It doesn't seem to help much eating more each meal either, dunno why I'm so hungry! I can deal with eating 1600 calories if I'm not hungry!

                First time low carb, I lost pretty much weight (I was 20 pounds lighter than today). When I fell off the wagon and ate pretty bad and more than I had prior to low carb for a few months, I gained a lot. It sometimes feel like that ketogenic experiment destroyed my metabolism once and for all, why else did it work the first time but not the second?

                This diet is perfect for pretty much everything besides this. I no longer have allergies, eczema, acne, no longer bloated or constipated, I haven't been sick more than once since I started (ironically during my whole30, but probably because of a new job and lots of new people) and I used to be real sick at least three times a year. I used to have herpes breakouts very often and I have only had it twice and that was at the same time I got sick and once after a gluten binge. My hair is growing thicker and in a more vibrant, blonder tone than before! Damnit body, why are you still overweight?

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Diamondl88
                  If you think due to one or two reasons you can eliminate these factors, then I will advise
                  you to try weight loss supplements such as the fat burners and appetite suppressants. They
                  will help you a lot in you quest to lose weight.

                  I hope you follow these tips and I wish you good luck. You can read more
                  on how to lose weight http://goo.gl/IerPQr
                  No thanks I'm going to do this without pills in a healthy way.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    i have been vlc for 4 years. i do not believe it destroys your metabolism, but do think gaining/losing/gaining DOES. it's not something that is infinitely elastic, and the body does not like change -- it prefers stasis and will fight to keep it.

                    if you're hungry between meals, you need bigger meals and possibly more protein. snacking gets lots of people in trouble. i eat twice a day, around 11 and then 5-6, and most often my biggest meal is the first one.

                    eta: keep some hard-boiled eggs in the fridge and snack on those til your appetite is more regulated. if you don't want an egg you may not be actually "hungry."
                    As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

                    Ernest Hemingway

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Emelie View Post
                      No thanks I'm going to do this without pills in a healthy way.
                      Emelie, Diamond 88 is probably a spammer or spambot, a poster who comes to the forum just to advertise some junk product. You can always pick them out because they want to buy something and they give a web address for a badly-designed website. And they usually post less than 5 times before moving on. Note that this was the spammers third post.
                      5'0" female, 45 years old. Started Primal October 31, 2011, at a skinny fat 111.5 lbs. Low weight: 99.5 lb on a fast. Gained back to 115(!) on SAD chocolate, potato chips, and stress. Currently 111.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by oxide View Post
                        +1 to this. Carb cycling and refeeding are prmarily for people who want to get a really good six-pack (stomach muscles), or for people who do heavy workouts.

                        IF (intermittent fasting), i.e. skipping meals is also optional. By the way, the meal that you skip does not have to be breakfast. You could eat a big breakfast and skip dinner.

                        For the moment it's better to dump the nuts and get your calories down to ~1700 and see where that takes you.
                        Do you think it could be harmful to try a carb refeed and see what happens? If I do it it will be totally primal, sweet potatoes and plantains was my plan. Although I like the idea of lots of sushi I don't really want to eat lots of rice.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Emelie View Post
                          Thank you!

                          I feel like I have been trying different macro-ratios a lot, both higher carb (around 100 grams a day), moderate around 50 and keto with close to zero carbs. I have tried eating more than 100-120 but then my energy goes way down during afternoon with my blood sugar and I don't want that No change on the scale though.

                          I have the same program as the swedish dieticians use for food tracking on my computer and I've used that for calorie counting and macro tracking when I have bothered so I will use that more often the upcoming weeks.

                          Yes I've checked my vitamin D levels, I live in the most northern parts of sweden and if the 45 degree rule is right we just get our Vit D during two hours a day in june-july. I was seriously low all winters before I started taking vit D supplements about the same time I got primal. My levels are all right now. I don't really crave nuts, I just get so hungry between meals sometimes and never have anything better to snack on. Maybe I'll try making my own jerky. It doesn't seem to help much eating more each meal either, dunno why I'm so hungry! I can deal with eating 1600 calories if I'm not hungry!

                          First time low carb, I lost pretty much weight (I was 20 pounds lighter than today). When I fell off the wagon and ate pretty bad and more than I had prior to low carb for a few months, I gained a lot. It sometimes feel like that ketogenic experiment destroyed my metabolism once and for all, why else did it work the first time but not the second?

                          This diet is perfect for pretty much everything besides this. I no longer have allergies, eczema, acne, no longer bloated or constipated, I haven't been sick more than once since I started (ironically during my whole30, but probably because of a new job and lots of new people) and I used to be real sick at least three times a year. I used to have herpes breakouts very often and I have only had it twice and that was at the same time I got sick and once after a gluten binge. My hair is growing thicker and in a more vibrant, blonder tone than before! Damnit body, why are you still overweight?
                          Re the blood sugar crash, just dont eat carbs until the evening. If you workout a lot eat more carbs on those evenings. Or just set a carb number, say 100 g a day, set protein at 1g /lb bw, rest is fat to take you to daily calories.

                          The carb ratios are likely somewhat irrelevant unless you are metabolically really broken. Just set calories and macros and stick to it for a while. No panic changes. Monitor weight and body comp and tinker as required.

                          Even use a simple TDEE calculator to start, the numbrrs are arbitrary, just make a start and watch your body.

                          Sent from my GT-I8190N using Marks Daily Apple Forum mobile app

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Emelie View Post
                            This diet is perfect for pretty much everything besides this. Damnit body, why are you still overweight?
                            Haha my sentiments exactly. I eat within the primal food list for health, but I have to tweak it for weight loss. Still working on the tweak.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by thriveful View Post
                              Re the blood sugar crash, just dont eat carbs until the evening. If you workout a lot eat more carbs on those evenings. Or just set a carb number, say 100 g a day, set protein at 1g /lb bw, rest is fat to take you to daily calories.

                              The carb ratios are likely somewhat irrelevant unless you are metabolically really broken. Just set calories and macros and stick to it for a while. No panic changes. Monitor weight and body comp and tinker as required.
                              p
                              Great plan. I will upper my intake of carbs to about 80 grams at first. But, either my professional calculator is completely wrong or I forgot how to eat carbs. I must have eaten less than 20 grams of carbs the last few months. Do I really need about 400 grams of already baked sweet potato to reach 80 grams of carbs? I dont think I ate that much when I tried eating around 100 grams carbs a day so I might have failed then. Unless my computer program is wrong. All other vegetables I eat besides squash and pumpkin are all very low carb. I think I actually eat around 100 grams or less of sweet potato when I think I have a high carb day. Plus all the vegetables and maybe a banana. Hmm.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Yep, it's a lot of sweet potato or rice to hit 100g of carbs

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