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  • Realistic feedback on supplements

    Hi,

    I've read through a few threads and post cautiously knowing there are many out there who have strong opinions about taking supplements. The typical argument is that if we eat right, we don't need to take supplements (simplified argument at least). I agree with that statement. My struggle is that while I want to eat right, I find myself eating mostly right. Enter the argument for supplements.

    I did further research outside of Mark's site on supplements. You can find many people talking about it from varying levels of expertise. I found this page from Chris Kresser. Beyond Paleo: Supplement Wisely. In this blog he talks about certain supplements that he typically recommends because there are certain items people tend not to eat. For example, I'm just not ever going to be a fan of organ meats. Sorry...I just can't do it. Unfortunately, organ meats tend to be rich in certain vitamins and minerals. Without eating a forest to offset this deleted food item, supplements seem to make sense.

    So why am I posting? I priced out all the supplements that Kresser suggested at the dosage he suggested. I priced this out on Amazon, not on his website, in order to get the best price. In addition, I priced out 100% whey protein isolate, probiotics and fish oils. When it's all said and done, the monthly cost is about the same as Mark's platinum package. His damage control contains tons more than just the basic supplements recommended by Kresser, but is the quality lacking? Is it better to itemize and buy different brands or is Mark's stuff high enough quality to make a difference?

    OK...here is all I ask. If you hate the fact that I'm posting about supplements, then keep that opinion to yourself. I'm accepting the fact that I will spend $$ on something that I can probably get by buying all the right foods. I would love to hear responses about the quality of his products (protein, damage control, fish oils, probiotics).

    I appreciate the objective feedback in advance.

    Rick

  • #2
    I think Kresser's list is good. I take most of the items, plus more. Thankfully, I got to where I could enjoy liverwurst. So I don't take A. Before bumping magnesium up to 500 mg/day, I was eating way too many nuts. Now I don't. I figure that's what I was craving. Before starting K, I ate way too much hard cheddar cheese. Now I eat it in moderation.

    I buy the supplements from Amazon, mostly on the subscribe and save program. (I buy lots of other stuff too, like coffee.) In addition to the discount for each item, I got an extra 15% off this month. There are things I don't like about Amazon, so this is not a commercial.
    Ancestral Health Info - My blog about Primal and the general ancestral health movement. Site just remodeled using HTML5/CSS3 instead of Wordpress.

    My MDA Friday success story - Stubborn Senior's Testimonial

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    • #3
      I did a bit of general searching on forums/websites before i got supplements and the most common ones I saw were fish oil, probiotics, magnesium and vitamin d so I just take those

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      • #4
        Originally posted by steven.kelly View Post
        I did a bit of general searching on forums/websites before i got supplements and the most common ones I saw were fish oil, probiotics, magnesium and vitamin d so I just take those
        You must get enough vitamins K2 and A (and magnesium, which you are taking) if you are taking much D3. You need them in order to use the D3 properly. You can get the A from food, especially if you eat liver. It is hard to get enough K2 that way. It is not the same as the K1 you get from various foods.

        When I heard about D, I started taking a lot. I got lots of kidney stones. I backed off the D some and started taking K2 and A (Now I eat liver for the A). No stones for a year. My new doc wanted to boost my D so had me take a prescription level dose. I got a bunch of stones. The CW docs probably would say it was a coincidence. I don't agree. I have backed off the D3 some again.
        Ancestral Health Info - My blog about Primal and the general ancestral health movement. Site just remodeled using HTML5/CSS3 instead of Wordpress.

        My MDA Friday success story - Stubborn Senior's Testimonial

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        • #5
          I usually prefer a whole food sourced supplement or something like it..... that is if you absolutely MUST supplement. There is just so much synergistic relationships between vitamins and minerals. In food they are present in the precise ratios that our bodies recognize and utilize. In the lab made supplements.... well we are just guessing. I mean we "discover" new elements in food frequently. The safe bet is food. After that, things like dessicated liver tablets or FCLO or other whole food based supplements like Standard Process are OK.... Any artificial single element supplement is just iffy IMO especially if you don't check your levels and monitor them frequently.

          "His damage control contains tons more than just the basic supplements recommended by Kresser, but is the quality lacking? Is it better to itemize and buy different brands or is Mark's stuff high enough quality to make a difference?"

          Between itemizing and taking specific stuff (I think you should check levels to take this approach). I'd rather see the average person take the "bit of everything" approach. So I guess I'm voting for Mark's stuff if those really are my only two choices.
          Last edited by Neckhammer; 08-12-2013, 12:27 PM.

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          • #6
            A decent case can be made for D3 and magnesium since daylight and water treatment issues aren't easily fixed. For all others I'd rather use food. I don't measure precise amounts but I'm content that retinol, copper, iodine, and K2 are never absent from my weekly menu.
            37//6'3"/185

            My peculiar nutrition glossary and shopping list

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            • #7
              Originally posted by picklepete View Post
              A decent case can be made for D3 and magnesium since daylight and water treatment issues aren't easily fixed. For all others I'd rather use food. I don't measure precise amounts but I'm content that retinol, copper, iodine, and K2 are never absent from my weekly menu.
              i too take d3 and magnesium. i do also take k2, only because the content in my food sources can vary greatly through the year.

              as mentioned above, since adding these supps, i rarely think about eating cheese or nuts, foods that used to be major binge-makers for me. clearly i was deficient.
              As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

              Ernest Hemingway

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              • #8
                Please excuse my mini hijack-of/digression-from the thread.

                Originally posted by Hedonist2 View Post
                You must get enough vitamins K2 and A (and magnesium, which you are taking) if you are taking much D3. You need them in order to use the D3 properly. You can get the A from food, especially if you eat liver. It is hard to get enough K2 that way. It is not the same as the K1 you get from various foods.

                When I heard about D, I started taking a lot. I got lots of kidney stones. I backed off the D some and started taking K2 and A (Now I eat liver for the A). No stones for a year. My new doc wanted to boost my D so had me take a prescription level dose. I got a bunch of stones. The CW docs probably would say it was a coincidence. I don't agree. I have backed off the D3 some again.
                That's interesting Hedonist2. How much D3 were you taking, and how much are you currently taking (also how much K2) please?

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                • #9
                  before taking LOTS of d3, get your levels checked. i was very low and needed 6 months at 10,000 ius daily to get within "normal" range. i live in new england so don't get much sun but for a few months a year.
                  As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

                  Ernest Hemingway

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Cal. View Post
                    That's interesting Hedonist2. How much D3 were you taking, and how much are you currently taking (also how much K2) please?
                    I think I was taking 5000 IU/day D3 a couple years ago. Now 2000 IU.
                    90 mcg Jarrow K2 from nato.
                    About 500 mg magnesium as citrate and glycinate.
                    Getting my A from liverwurst.

                    My level was only 24 earlier this year. Doc (and I) wanted it higher. She prescribed a very high dose of D3 once a week. I think that is very unnatural.
                    Last edited by Hedonist2; 08-12-2013, 09:43 PM.
                    Ancestral Health Info - My blog about Primal and the general ancestral health movement. Site just remodeled using HTML5/CSS3 instead of Wordpress.

                    My MDA Friday success story - Stubborn Senior's Testimonial

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                    • #11
                      I know that Mark says you can get enough K from a good Primal diet. I'm not sure of that. If you don't do dairy or liver, you maybe can get enough from egg yolks [chart], but as I said above, before I started taking K, I craved aged cheddar. Now I like it and eat it, but reasonable amounts.
                      Ancestral Health Info - My blog about Primal and the general ancestral health movement. Site just remodeled using HTML5/CSS3 instead of Wordpress.

                      My MDA Friday success story - Stubborn Senior's Testimonial

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        forgot! taking mineral salts baths is a GREAT way to get magnesium. we evolved to absorb it dermally, so this is actually better than swallowing a supp. also incredibly relaxing.
                        As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

                        Ernest Hemingway

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by noodletoy View Post
                          before taking LOTS of d3, get your levels checked. i was very low and needed 6 months at 10,000 ius daily to get within "normal" range. i live in new england so don't get much sun but for a few months a year.
                          Originally posted by noodletoy View Post
                          forgot! taking mineral salts baths is a GREAT way to get magnesium. we evolved to absorb it dermally, so this is actually better than swallowing a supp. also incredibly relaxing.
                          +2!

                          Excellent advice! That is actually the only supplement I take (epsom salt baths) couple times a week.

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                          • #14
                            We are going to get our Vitamin D levels checked. We are currently taking a product from Thorne which is a liquid combination of D3 and K2. Also supplementing magnesium but the epsom salt bath sounds like a great idea! I've been taking 10000 IU of A as well as fish oil and probiotic. Once we get the vitamin D tests back, we will have better info on what we need to do.

                            Thanks for the assist!

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                            • #15
                              I just look at it logically, apparently we can't get enough magnesium cause of soil depletion etc so I supplement that, I don't get enough sun in winter so I supplement that, I don't eat much fish so I supplement that. It's to stressful thinking about all these supplements you should and shouldn't have and when to take them that I'm just sticking with those even if I should have others.

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