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Surprised at aching muscles after carb refeed

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  • #16
    I think it's individual differences.

    I eat around 50-60g of carbs a day, Crossfit 3x a week, weightlift 2x a week + walking/hiking/leisurely bike riding 4-5 hours a week. I always feel energized... except on those rare occasions when for whatever reason, I eat more than 100g of carbs a day. Then I feel like a slug for the next two days.

    n=1

    Do what works for you.

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    • #17
      Clean carbs or gluten? This could be inflammation from eating shit. I generally eat VLC most of the time with all you can eat sushi most Saturdays and I don't get any pain, weakness, or weight gain from it. I don't know if it helps with muscle gain or not, no major difference there that I have noticed.

      Sent from my Nexus 4 using Marks Daily Apple Forum mobile app

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
        Aching muscles after a re-feed is due to more glycogen storage that leads to water pressure inside the muscles and the muscle-fascia.
        I get muscle 'bulk' feeling at night sometimes, not quite sore but uncomfortable/big feeling chest/upper-back/arms/shoulders ( almost feel like upper body 'bloat' is that's the right term).

        It normally happens within 24hs of lifting - and I would have consumed more carbs.

        Perhaps this explanation of glucose storage is this occasional 'foreign feeling' of slightly uncomfortable bulk/pressure that seems to last for quite some time for me.

        Anyway it's interesting - I'll read up more on this .

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        • #19
          Yeah, I mean I carb load once a week just cause me and the wife like sushi..... and it's too expensive to fill up on just raw fish and no rice . And I'm not like pathologically sick/uncomfortable after, but there is a bit more bloat and just not feeling as lithe and agile as usually when I overdo it on starchy carbs. As to not on the rugs comments, its much more a to each their own I think. Even though I only work out hard 2x/week.... thats going to utter muscle fatigue with nonstop heavy weights for those 2x... then I bike to and from work, practice back flips, wrestle my kids, random pistol squats, pullups and pushups, active job.... no I'm not "killing it" but I ain't just sitting on my duff all day either.

          In an exercise capacity I actually find it tough to hit my protein goals on lift days if I eat too much starch. Just not enough room in the stomach for both many times... or by the time I'm done eating my meat (usually just eat it first at each meal)... I'm not hungry enough for other stuff. Then again I'm more in the 50-100g/day group than the sub 50g so that may have some impact too.
          Last edited by Neckhammer; 08-10-2013, 06:30 AM.

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          • #20
            I'm not surprised. If you're VLC for awhile, you become quite insulin resistant. Suddenly eating a large quantity of carbohydrate out of nowhere, especially after only sprints which aren't very glycogen taxing, could have a negative reaction on someone who isn't insulin sensitivity. A proper way of doing so would be to gradually increase carbohydrate consumption and scale back fat intake to promote insulin sensitivity again. Refeeds are also best timed after heavy lifting, not sprints, because they require much more glycogen. Weight lifting uses your Type II muscle fibers, so that is why carb refeeds are so beneficial. Sprints aren't going to use your Type II's. It just isn't stressful enough.

            Refeeds are not "broscience." VLC diets for health, on the other hand, are. I remember the ketogenic diet craze in the bodybuilding community. Thank God that BS blew over.
            Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
              Refeeds are not "broscience." VLC diets for health, on the other hand, are. I remember the ketogenic diet craze in the bodybuilding community. Thank God that BS blew over.
              You keep doing what works for you and I'll keep doing what works for me.

              How about if we both agree to not label other ways as bro-sci? Deal? Or does it only go one way with you?

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                Yep. IMO re-feeds are mostly bro sci promoted by the bodybuilding crowd. If you are really lean and working out like a fiend very frequently, then you need refeeds. If you leave adequate time in between workouts for recovery, your glycogen refills all by itself.
                I didn't think Mark was a bodybuilder into bro sci...

                Carb Refeeding and Weight Loss | Mark's Daily Apple
                A Post-Primal PrimalPat

                Do not allow yourself to become wrapped up in a food 'lifestyle'. That is ego, and you are not that.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by patski View Post
                  I didn't think Mark was a bodybuilder into bro sci...

                  Carb Refeeding and Weight Loss | Mark's Daily Apple
                  Aw c'mon. I just extended the olive branch to Choco and then you have to pile on. Trying to get along here. What I meant in the original bro-sci comment was about people force feeding themselves large amounts of sweet potatoes on a rigid schedule just because Lyle said so and thinking it was was going to get them abs like Martin even if they don't work out that often. I was commenting on a mis-application of the whole carb-refeed concept not the concept itself. Sheesh.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                    You keep doing what works for you and I'll keep doing what works for me.

                    How about if we both agree to not label other ways as bro-sci? Deal? Or does it only go one way with you?
                    It has nothing to do with what works for me or you. Carb refeeds aren't bro science. They are fact. If you have issue with them, it's because you aren't doing them right.
                    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by patski View Post
                      I didn't think Mark was a bodybuilder into bro sci...

                      Carb Refeeding and Weight Loss | Mark's Daily Apple
                      He,he, the only bodybuilder into bro sci around here that I know, is a certain carnivorous bird that claims that she used to be a “bodybuilder” in her pre-paleo life…
                      "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

                      - Schopenhauer

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                        It has nothing to do with what works for me or you. Carb refeeds aren't bro science. They are fact. If you have issue with them, it's because you aren't doing them right.
                        Umkay. Excuse me for trying to get along here. You obviously are more interested in "scoring points" than anything else. Please see what I wrote to Patski above.

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                        • #27
                          I dunno, I see the whole micromanagement of macro in terms of refeeds as a hack (much like the potato or steak and eggs if you like) more than "science". Its suppose to trick your hormone signaling (leptin especially) so that your body will crank at a higher rate. Seems like we think we can somehow outsmart these innate mechanisms. I personally doubt it makes much difference unless your like sub 20g/carb a day for extended times.

                          Is it good for health?... I doubt there are any studies to prove it, but if anybody doing refeeds has the science to prove it either improves health or longevity I'm all ears. Does it trick your body into burning at a higher metabolic rate or release stubborn fat? Maybe, but do we have studies on that? And if we do I still don't believe there is anything other than philosophy to indicate a higher metabolic rate is actually healthier.... and many that argue the opposite. I know it seems to be a safe enough bet for those that are kind of leery of long term LC..... but really in the 50-100g range (assuming fruit and starch are your 50) then you are outside of any of the theoretical downsides regarding low carb anyhow. Yes I said theoretical... and mostly purported in any scientific valid way by Jaminet... they shoot for a combo of protein and carbs at 600 calories to avoid any real issue. However, longevity is quite a different story and there are plenty of those sorts of specialists still betting on the low carb pony to come in in that race.

                          Anyhow, the refeed has been around a long time.... but unless someone can cite me some science perhaps it is relegated to bro-science? To be clear I really would like to see some studies here since I tend to do an incidental refeed myselft . Oh, and I'm really looking for metabolic markers and health markers.... not the "how to get to 5% body fat" bullshit. Cause we already know that lower body fat DOES NOT EQUAL health.

                          I guess at my protein and don't count anything else. If a refeed happens its not cause I was "on the clock" or had some Bro down "PWO carb fest".... Its cause my apple and pear trees are producing and I like sushi.
                          Last edited by Neckhammer; 08-10-2013, 03:33 PM.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                            Aw c'mon. I just extended the olive branch to Choco and then you have to pile on. Trying to get along here. What I meant in the original bro-sci comment was about people force feeding themselves large amounts of sweet potatoes on a rigid schedule just because Lyle said so and thinking it was was going to get them abs like Martin even if they don't work out that often. I was commenting on a mis-application of the whole carb-refeed concept not the concept itself. Sheesh.
                            Okay then, darlin'. You know I heart you.

                            oxox
                            A Post-Primal PrimalPat

                            Do not allow yourself to become wrapped up in a food 'lifestyle'. That is ego, and you are not that.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              I like the "earn your carbs" approach, which pretty much means eating more carbs following heavy exercise. I still don't really care and just eat whatever, whenever I dang please.

                              - 20% BF club 4 life.
                              - girlfriend of 5 years club 4 life.
                              - girls never really cared any dang way club 4 life.
                              I used to seriously post here, now I prefer to troll.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
                                I dunno, I see the whole micromanagement of macro in terms of refeeds as a hack (much like the potato or steak and eggs if you like) more than "science". Its suppose to trick your hormone signaling (leptin especially) so that your body will crank at a higher rate. Seems like we think we can somehow outsmart these innate mechanisms. I personally doubt it makes much difference unless your like sub 20g/carb a day for extended times.

                                Is it good for health?... I doubt there are any studies to prove it, but if anybody doing refeeds has the science to prove it either improves health or longevity I'm all ears. Does it trick your body into burning at a higher metabolic rate or release stubborn fat? Maybe, but do we have studies on that? And if we do I still don't believe there is anything other than philosophy to indicate a higher metabolic rate is actually healthier.... and many that argue the opposite. I know it seems to be a safe enough bet for those that are kind of leery of long term LC..... but really in the 50-100g range (assuming fruit and starch are your 50) then you are outside of any of the theoretical downsides regarding low carb anyhow. Yes I said theoretical... and mostly purported in any scientific valid way by Jaminet... they shoot for a combo of protein and carbs at 600 calories to avoid any real issue. However, longevity is quite a different story and there are plenty of those sorts of specialists still betting on the low carb pony to come in in that race.

                                Anyhow, the refeed has been around a long time.... but unless someone can cite me some science perhaps it is relegated to bro-science? To be clear I really would like to see some studies here since I tend to do an incidental refeed myselft . Oh, and I'm really looking for metabolic markers and health markers.... not the "how to get to 5% body fat" bullshit. Cause we already know that lower body fat DOES NOT EQUAL health.

                                I guess at my protein and don't count anything else. If a refeed happens its not cause I was "on the clock" or had some Bro down "PWO carb fest".... Its cause my apple and pear trees are producing and I like sushi.
                                Reefed can serve different purposes physiological and psychologically and “bro science” related to what exactly? Re-feeds of shorter duration like a meal or eating above maintenance for days or weeks after being on a restrictive diet for a very long time? Or post workout re-feeds after depletion of glycogen? Some theories of re-feeds may be BS, others definitely not, so first we need to know the actual definition of re-feed and the context behind it – what is it supposed to do for the “re-feeder” etc.?
                                "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

                                - Schopenhauer

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