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  • Originally posted by Rocco Hill View Post
    That, plus folks like Paleobird making hysterical and libelous claims about people. I don't mind at all if someone disagrees with whatever I'm doing at the time, but flat out making stuff up is not becoming of anyone.
    I suggest you look up the definition of libel. It only libelous if it's untrue. Unless you can back up that claim , which you can't, I suggest you zip it. You calling me hysterical is just sexist and stupid OTOH. I always find it funny that the most hyperbole is in the posts objecting (vehemently) to the hyperbole.

    Originally posted by eKatherine View Post
    I think you might find it hard to find a lawyer to sue somebody who hurt your feelings by criticizing you on the internet, unless you want to pay up front of course.
    Yeah, disagreeing with your guru=/=libel. Sorry.

    Originally posted by bloodorchid View Post
    if lawyers sued for feelings hurting statements made on the internet i'd be screwed and rich all at once
    Hah! Good one.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
      I like the people who come with different ideas and if they post that OMG, all this meat is awful and eat more potatoes and beans, well, I find it entertaining to watch people explode who think carbs are toxic and all we should eat is coconut oil and bacon.

      I also think it is interesting to see what works for others. I would hope people can accept the differences in needs across a population of people. The only thing that makes me sad is the rampant food fear regarding healthy foods. People can't seem to grasp that carb fear is as irrational as fat fear.

      I do worry sometimes that participation in this site is supporting disordered eating for some people and that is sad. My hope would be that they can see that what they are doing is not getting them where they want to be and that they see men and women with good health and a healthy approach to eating as the role models.

      I would hope they don't moderate as there are some great posters here and I enjoy the often bawdy and humorous evolution of some of these topics that generally end with photos of abs lol!
      +1

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
        I suggest you look up the definition of libel. It only libelous if it's untrue. Unless you can back up that claim , which you can't, I suggest you zip it. You calling me hysterical is just sexist and stupid OTOH. I always find it funny that the most hyperbole is in the posts objecting (vehemently) to the hyperbole.

        Yeah, disagreeing with your guru=/=libel. Sorry.

        Hah! Good one.
        This entire post, but specifically that part...


        Make America Great Again

        Comment


        • Originally posted by oxide View Post
          I used "pro-starch" as an umbrella to cover ALL the high-carb posters, not just pro-sugar posters like Derpamix. "Pro-starch" covers potato hacks, rice lovers, remnants of pure CICO, even those who want to eat wheat and burn it off with chronic cardio running.
          I think that's an oversimplification. I certainly wouldn't lump the 'pro-sugar' people in with the 'pro-starch' people, even if they both fall into your personal 'people not like me' category.

          Originally posted by oxide View Post
          Is it actually true that Primal is anti-starch?

          I would say that yes, "standard issue" Primal, so to speak, is anti-starch. Here is my reading of it:

          Primal says, very clearly, that we should limit our carbs to ~100 carb grams/day.
          If I add up all the veggies I eat, I can easily reach 80-90 carb gram/day.
          How does one eat only 10 grams (40 calories) worth of starch/sugar? Two sugar packets? Half a cookie? It's almost impossible to be primal and eat starch/sugar -- you simply don't have enough carb allowance for both.

          Now, there are departures from primal, for example heavy exercisers who eat some rice or do carb refeeds. I guess the potato hack is a departure too. As long as this tweak is identified as being a departure, and doesn't try to sneak in under standard issue primal, I think that's okay. It's the deception that I don't like.

          Now, if YOU want to go stuff up on starch and sugar, be my guest. Maybe you have those magic genetics where you can eat wheat and corn and not get inflamed and not gain weight. All the more power to you. But DON'T claim that such a diet is Primal.
          Is this a diet for weight loss? Or a diet for health? Because speaking personally I'm really only interested in the latter.
          Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

          Griff's cholesterol primer
          5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
          Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
          TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
          bloodorchid is always right

          Comment


          • Originally posted by oxide View Post
            Actually, I like this idea. Let's get a list of primal weaknesses going, so they can be aired out and maybe corrected.

            Here, I'll start:
            • I openly admit that I think that the 'insidious weight gain' of the primal carb curve is rubbish
            • I openly admit being on the computer too much, particularly after 9pm at night
            • I openly admit that I have a desk job and do NO exercise beyond playing with my three kiddies
            • I openly admit to eating lots of chocolate in the evening. I'm also going a bit nuts trying to find anything darker than 85% in my city (apparently there's not enough demand for it)
            • I openly admit to buying pigs head that is just bulk fare in the supermarket (not organically raised in the enchanted bamboo forest)
            • I openly admit to making a home-made pizza with real wheat in the base
            • I openly admit to eating rice and potatoes as staples, and drinking beer sometimes
            • I openly admit that we've just started buying a mayonaise that uses soyabean oil again (after the kids spent their pocket money buying one, we decided to relent on it despite the generally evil nature of everything Monsanto)
            • I openly admit to letting my kids eat porridge, weetbix, ricies, cornflakes at home and when we're out, I don't prevent them from eathing junk like sandwiches, crackers, pies, biscuits, cheerios etc
            Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

            Griff's cholesterol primer
            5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
            Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
            TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
            bloodorchid is always right

            Comment


            • Originally posted by eKatherine View Post
              Despite the insistence of the high carb cheerleaders of being bombarded with demands that they eat a very low carb diet at all times, I have never once seen the phrase "primal is really low carb", and I doubt you have either.

              What I have seen numerous times every day is "Primal is not low carb". I have no doubt you have read this too.
              Really? Because I do find that in almost *every* food related post mark makes, he speaks of carbs pejoratively. Here's his most recent one, which contains gems such as this: "All of these delights are original creations from scratch, about as creative as you can imagine, and low carb to boot."

              A bunch of people (including me) have found that their n=1 requires more carbs than the 'by the book' primal, and I think you'll find that almost all of those "Primal is not low carb" people who have read the website, formed the perfectly reasonable opinion based on Mark's writing that you *should* minimise carbs on primal, then started asking questions.
              Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

              Griff's cholesterol primer
              5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
              Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
              TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
              bloodorchid is always right

              Comment


              • Originally posted by magicmerl View Post
                which contains gems such as this: "All of these delights are original creations from scratch, about as creative as you can imagine, and low carb to boot."
                I have kind of wondered about this (not to turn the Eye of Gondor onto Mark). But the implosion of books pseudo related to Paleo or Primal on the shelves these days had me wondering if Sissons newer books would cater to that in some way and try to capitalize on the momentum. I HATE to voice that but that quote alone makes me shudder a wee bit.

                “you aren't what you eat - you are what you don't poop.” Wavy Gravy

                Today I am Fillyjonk. Tommorow I will be Snufkin.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by spk View Post
                  I have kind of wondered about this (not to turn the Eye of Gondor onto Mark). But the implosion of books pseudo related to Paleo or Primal on the shelves these days had me wondering if Sissons newer books would cater to that in some way and try to capitalize on the momentum. I HATE to voice that but that quote alone makes me shudder a wee bit.
                  Mark has actually backed off a lot on his stance against carbs. He used to be much more of a low carb zealot than he is today. The 'carb curve' is a relic of his early days (at least, I like to think that it is). But maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part.

                  Even when he asks how bad is rice really?, the 'fair and balanced' arguement has a zero-carb zealot on one side, so that Mark can be the 'low carb moderate' in the middle.
                  Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

                  Griff's cholesterol primer
                  5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
                  Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
                  TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
                  bloodorchid is always right

                  Comment


                  • For the average person, trying to be healthy and at a good weight but not being an athlete or body builder, eating whole food primal makes it hard to eat more than 150g of carbs a day anyhow. Once you've accounted for meat and vegetables and some fruit, my experience is that there isn't much room for starches. I don't think I eat 150g per day and I'm neither consciously restricting carbs nor forcing fat down my gullet. So 150g per day doesn't seem like low carb. Lower card is a strategy for weight loss and/or managing specific conditions. Some simply choose it. A few of those are orthorexic, but any recommendations in respect of diet will attract its share of orthorexics.

                    The only point on which I'm not so clear is the "insidious weight gain" bit. I can see why Sisson has done it, because The Primal Blueprint is principally focussed on restoration of health, including weight loss. I don't think it stacks up for the healthy, but then it doesn't matter either. The average healthy person (ie excluding athletes and body builders) doesn't need to actively restrict to keep daily carbs below 150g if following the rest of the primal diet rules
                    Four years Primal with influences from Jaminet & Shanahan and a focus on being anti-inflammatory. Using Primal to treat CVD and prevent stents from blocking free of drugs.

                    Eat creatures nose-to-tail (animal, fowl, fish, crustacea, molluscs), a large variety of vegetables (raw, cooked and fermented, including safe starches), dairy (cheese & yoghurt), occasional fruit, cocoa, turmeric & red wine

                    Comment


                    • Almost everyone I know is trying to lose weight, even those without weight to lose. Only few of those are interested in how to maintain health.

                      The market for weight loss is huge... from the perspective of a businessperson, I don't blame Mark for catering to that market. LC is indeed a great way to lose weight.

                      Comment


                      • There have been a few persistent trolls in the last while, hopefully they will find something else to turn them on in the next little while.
                        Eating primal is not a diet, it is a way of life.
                        PS
                        Don't forget to play!

                        Comment


                        • I wish we could go back to the good old days of 2010 when glucose was evil and Gary taubes was the messiah.

                          http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread4508.html

                          http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread9680.html

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by magicmerl View Post
                            • I openly admit being on the computer too much, particularly after 9pm at night
                            • I openly admit to letting my kids eat porridge, weetbix, ricies, cornflakes at home and when we're out, I don't prevent them from eathing junk like sandwiches, crackers, pies, biscuits, cheerios etc
                            Merl I can so relate to these statements (except the weetbix, that was never popular here anyway so it doesn't seem to be missed). It's nice to have you state it, because I sometimes feel as if I'm not doing well enough if I'm not ensuring my child eats as healthily as I know how. On the other hand I know I do not want to contribute to negative food issues for her.

                            I do get irritated at how many people regularly inflict absolute trash onto my child - and how it never enters her mind that she would turn it down.
                            Annie Ups the Ante
                            http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread117711.html

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by magicmerl View Post
                              • I openly admit that I think that the 'insidious weight gain' of the primal carb curve is rubbish
                              • I openly admit being on the computer too much, particularly after 9pm at night
                              • I openly admit that I have a desk job and do NO exercise beyond playing with my three kiddies
                              • I openly admit to eating lots of chocolate in the evening. I'm also going a bit nuts trying to find anything darker than 85% in my city (apparently there's not enough demand for it)
                              • I openly admit to buying pigs head that is just bulk fare in the supermarket (not organically raised in the enchanted bamboo forest)
                              • I openly admit to making a home-made pizza with real wheat in the base
                              • I openly admit to eating rice and potatoes as staples, and drinking beer sometimes
                              • I openly admit that we've just started buying a mayonaise that uses soyabean oil again (after the kids spent their pocket money buying one, we decided to relent on it despite the generally evil nature of everything Monsanto)
                              • I openly admit to letting my kids eat porridge, weetbix, ricies, cornflakes at home and when we're out, I don't prevent them from eathing junk like sandwiches, crackers, pies, biscuits, cheerios etc
                              They sell pig's head in your supermarket?

                              Originally posted by magicmerl View Post
                              Really? Because I do find that in almost *every* food related post mark makes, he speaks of carbs pejoratively. Here's his most recent one, which contains gems such as this: "All of these delights are original creations from scratch, about as creative as you can imagine, and low carb to boot."

                              A bunch of people (including me) have found that their n=1 requires more carbs than the 'by the book' primal, and I think you'll find that almost all of those "Primal is not low carb" people who have read the website, formed the perfectly reasonable opinion based on Mark's writing that you *should* minimise carbs on primal, then started asking questions.
                              I understand that "a bunch of people" have found that their n=1 requires more carbs. And "a bunch of people" have also found that they need more fat than they can get eating lean and stoking carbs. But somehow the dialogue has shifted to where a person who admits they function better with fewer than 300g of carbs a day can be attacked for saying this.

                              I see no equivalence.

                              Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
                              I like the people who come with different ideas and if they post that OMG, all this meat is awful and eat more potatoes and beans, well, I find it entertaining to watch people explode who think carbs are toxic and all we should eat is coconut oil and bacon.
                              Seriously, nobody's heads explode like the trolls who happen to be Peatists.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Paleo Goth View Post
                                So, when I first started following "Paleo" in 2010, this is what I thought it meant: eat unprocessed meat (including seafood and offal) and vegetables, and occasionally fruit. No sugar, grains, legumes, dairy, processed foods.


                                -Then when I found "Primal," later that year in 2010, I thought that I should eat all of the Paleo things + sometimes dairy and added animal/coconut fat was okay.

                                -Then, in 2012, I read about the super-popular "Perfect Health Diet," which encourages all of the original Paleo food groups + the addition of very small amounts of "safe starches" from rice, potatoes, and yams.

                                -The old/new nutritional ketosis style of Paleo/Primal calls for a higher percentage of fat and a lower percentage of carbs/protein.

                                And now sugar is advocated? Surely not?!

                                My point is that the lifestyle has undergone numerous modification (yes, most of them hacks) over the years, but the core message and advice remains the same: Eat fresh meats and plant foods. Avoid processed foods and poisons. Play.
                                Perfectly said...That's exactly as I see it as well. Thanks
                                Recent Blog: http://www.peakperformanceradio.net/...y-john-saville

                                https://www.facebook.com/PaleoJourne...?ref=bookmarks

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