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  • #76
    "How is metabolic syndrome diagnosed?

    To diagnose metabolic syndrome, most doctors look for the presence of three or more of these components:

    Central or abdominal obesity (measured by waist circumference):
    Men - Greater than 40 inches
    Women - Greater than 35 inches
    Fasting blood triglycerides greater than or equal to 150 milligrams per deciliter of blood (mg/dL)
    Blood HDL cholesterol:
    Men - Less than 40 mg/dL
    Women - Less than 50 mg/dL
    Blood pressure greater than or equal to 130/85 millimeters of mercury (mmHg)
    Fasting glucose greater than or equal to 100 mg/dL"

    Not that metabolic syndrome = insulin resistance......... but, I am seeing a pattern here..... Hmmmmmm. Might they be distant cousins twice removed on your uncles side?

    And no PB never even came close to saying they were the same thing so I don't understand the springboard rant on it in any case.

    Syndromes of insulin resistance include:
     Obesity
     Glucose intolerance
     Metabolic syndrome (syndrome X/Dysmetabolic syndrome)
     Diabetes
    Last edited by Neckhammer; 08-09-2013, 01:44 PM.

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    • #77
      Uh oh! We are fast approaching the 10 page cut off rule!

      http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread92242.html

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      • #78
        Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
        And no PB never even came close to saying they were the same thing so I don't understand the springboard rant on it in any case.
        Hah! "Springboard rant". Good way to put it. Actually it was just a way of finding something else to argue about while conveniently ignoring the part where he had been proven inaccurate.

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        • #79
          Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
          A1C is THE marker to know IMO. Less than 5% HbA1c is associated with the absolute lowest risk in all cause mortality for both men and women!
          A1C is a completely useless marker unless you're a diabetic trying to gauge your blood sugar control. I'm 25. Should I give a shit about my A1C? No, because my pancreas works.

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          • #80
            Originally posted by Timthetaco View Post
            A1C is a completely useless marker unless you're a diabetic trying to gauge your blood sugar control. I'm 25. Should I give a shit about my A1C? No, because my pancreas works.
            Mayhap, but in the context of us looking at and elevated FBG level in a low carber and physiological insulin resistance due to this A1C is vital..... unless you get said low carber to eat a significant enough amount of carbs for a couple days prior to testing. Which is doable, but I don't see why they should subject themselves to that when you can just do a different test. And the A1C stuff showing lowest levels of mortality are here. Use the info or not. I'm not judgin:

            Association of hemoglobin A1c with cardiovasc... [Ann Intern Med. 2004] - PubMed - NCBI

            I originally saw it cited in the PHD. But you have a point this is a study of age group 45-79 so it likely doesn't mean a thing to you. I definitely need to be more mindful of who I'm responding to. Even in that other thread, cause I just now realized that was also a young man.
            Last edited by Neckhammer; 08-09-2013, 01:58 PM.

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            • #81
              I don't disagree about high FBG in low carbers. I thought you meant it was a useful marker otherwise.

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              • #82
                Originally posted by DCarr10760 View Post
                Aren't six packs all about BF %? We all have the muscles. Just can't see them. Have you had your BF% accurately calculated?
                We all have biceps too but often they are underdeveloped.

                Yes low BF is the key to seeing what we have.

                From the pic he may be above 15% ( not bad), but probably need to get to closer to 10% to start to see anything.

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
                  You like those articles do ya? Just saying, they tend to support my assertions.

                  "So, if you eat a low-carb diet and have borderline high FBG (i.e. 90-105), it may not be cause for concern. Your post-meal blood sugars and A1c levels are more important." -your source says
                  You're mincing words. I specifically said that metabolic syndrome is multifaceted. Kresser's article is good because he shows that insulin sensitivity has to be measured through more than one means. He chooses three means - three will give you a better picture than one. A high fasting BG is not necessarily a cause for concern if you other markers are normal, but a low carber is more likely to have issues since carbohydrate-restriction reduces insulin sensitivity.

                  Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
                  Facts is facts I'm afraid. The data simply states that HbA1c lower than 5 is amazing. It doesn't have to be the only test you get, but its darn good to add to the list IMO.
                  My fasting BG is 75 and my A1c is 4.6 last time I got it checked. All improved markedly after I stopped doing LC.

                  Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
                  It's totally great to use more than one marker, but I disagree with you and your girlfriend. A1C is vital knowledge as it gives you an indication of how your body has handled glucose over the past 2-3 month period. Its a look at your overall strategy in terms of averages rather than a snapshot in time.
                  I can't tell if your statement shows your ignorance or your agenda. A1c is the most easily manipulated marker. You can drop A1c drastically simply by limiting carbs for a few days or weeks. You can't recover from metabolic syndrome in 2 weeks, but you can "fix" your A1c. It is a BS marker and means very little unless you're already diabetic. It tends to look good in people on LC diets, so that's why I'm guessing you're promoting it. Unfortunately, A1c doesn't show insulin sensitivity like fasting BG does.
                  Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 08-10-2013, 01:25 PM.
                  Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                    You're mincing words. I specifically said that metabolic syndrome is multifaceted. Kresser's article is good because he shows that insulin sensitivity has to be measured through more than one means. He chooses three means - three will give you a better picture than one. A high fasting BG is not necessarily a cause for concern if you other markers are normal, but a low carber is more likely to have issues since carbohydrate-restriction reduces insulin sensitivity.


                    My fasting BG is 75 and my A1c is 4.6 last time I got it checked. All improved markedly after I stopped doing LC.


                    I can't tell if your statement shows your ignorance or your agenda. A1c is the most easily manipulated marker. You can drop A1c drastically simply by limiting carbs for a few days or weeks. You can't recover from metabolic syndrome in 2 weeks, but you can "fix" your A1c. It is a BS marker and means very little unless you're already diabetic. It tends to look good in people on LC diets, so that's why I'm guessing you're promoting it. Unfortunately, A1c doesn't show insulin sensitivity like fasting BG does.
                    I wasn't mincing words. You told me how crummy a marker A1c was even for a low carber. Your article disagrees with your assertion and says its useful. That is the context within which we where talking.

                    Really? A1c can be "fixed" by lowering carbs for just a few days? I actually did not know that .... so no it was not part of my agenda. Do you have a cite for it? I'd like to follow up if I could. As far as metabolic syndrome... well its a diagnosis with 5 criteria of which the diagnostician usually will make sure you meet 3 of to get said diagnosis. Those 5 criteria are very much related to or because of insulin resistance.

                    I still think your intentionally missing the point when it comes to muscular/physiological insulin resistance in a low carber and I'm almost certain that this is due to your agenda. Its just a poor argument for anybody with half a brain and any previous knowledge in the paleo/primal community to make. So I can only assume its your agenda. Either way I'm glad your A1c and FG are right on. I don't like to beat the *your a young guy* drum, but seriously at your age and activity level you could be drinking like a fish and pounding skittles and still have fare markers.....Hell, I'm 35 and consider myself too young to put stock in "perfect" tests right now. What I mean is you really gotta screw up big time to see it on a lab test at your age.

                    As to the last paragraph, I said it was only one marker and later in repsponse to timthetaco linked the study that showed an EXACTLY linear progression of increased mortality from the less than 5% group through the greater than 7% group. PRECICELY linear. Thats simply astounding to me. Now.... the caveat... This was in the age group I mentioned... over 40 years of age. So does it mean a damn thing to you right now? Probably not, but personally I don't think you or me are going to die of a chronic degenerative condition in the next 10 years anyhow...these are markers to know for people at risk.
                    Last edited by Neckhammer; 08-10-2013, 04:58 PM.

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by chima_p View Post
                      I think the problem is that you need a traveling personal trainer to keep you in line on your journey and play wing man when needed. I will send you my email address...
                      I think the problem is you're bored and "attain six pack" is just another thing on the list below "master salsa" and as soon as you get that six pack you'll be on to the next item on the list, never to be seen here again...
                      Sandra
                      *My obligatory intro

                      There are no cheat days. There are days when you eat primal and days you don't. As soon as you label a day a cheat day, you're on a diet. Don't be on a diet. ~~ Fernaldo

                      DAINTY CAN KISS MY PRIMAL BACKSIDE. ~~ Crabcakes

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Sandra in BC View Post
                        I think the problem is you're bored and "attain six pack" is just another thing on the list below "master salsa" and as soon as you get that six pack you'll be on to the next item on the list, never to be seen here again...
                        Yeah, unless your a body builder I've never understood the "attain six pack" sort of goal..... seriously why? It won't make you healthier... your not even likely to get laid more just cause of it. Trust me. I've had em. But they were part of having to cut weight for a combat sport (wrestling)... my frequency of getting lucky was about the same in season (with abs) as it was out of season. So why? Cause Cosmo says so? Seriously, that's what it is....its ridiculous Hollywooding bullshit. Get over it..... let me just add the obligatory "IMO"....if your ego needs a six pack by all means rock it bro.

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                        • #87
                          Hello from Croatia ;-)

                          I'm hiring Borge Fagerli.

                          Why six pack? It's about the look, as I said pick up is one of my main hobbies and I'm sad to report that girls are as shallow as men, so it will make my work easier ;-)

                          But seriously its more of a challenge, just like the pilot course and everything else in my list. I'm on a cruise now with my family, I feel pretty good restraining at the rediculous huge buffet every meal.

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                          • #88
                            Hey, man, I say if you want a six-pack go for it. I'm one of the lucky genetic freaks whose default body setting is "abs" no matter what I do--I just get varying degrees of ab shreddedness depending on how hard I dial in nutrition and workouts. I won't fault someone for wanting to do it as a personal challenge, unless they're doing crazy stupid/unhealthy stuff.

                            Let us know what works for you; this stuff is interesting.

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                            • #89
                              I have abs, but it comes with visible ribs, and chicken arms. Trust me, no one really gives a shit.
                              Make America Great Again

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                              • #90
                                Trust me on this one, girls give a crap if you have abs + good musculature.

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