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  • #16
    Originally posted by dkJames View Post
    Looks very much to me that you are very sensitive to the cow milk protein. Did you ever come across the book "Devil in the Milk" by Keith Woodford ? A very interesting read. You will learn about the beta-casomorphin peptide BCM7 and the A1 vs A2 beta-casein found in different cow breeds. Goat / sheep / camel and some cow breeds (Guernsey, Jersey, african and asian without european ancestry) are the A2 type and it looks very much like this type does not trigger health issues linked to dairy products. The A1 type comes from a genetic mutation that happened in Europe some thousands of years ago and happens to be the most commercialized type, at least in the developed world, save for some exceptions like France which only considers the A2 type for cheese production.

    Anyway, you may want to experiment if you have access to A2 only milk / dairy products.
    Thanks for responding. That is why I will try Swiss cheese, I have read that Swiss cows have a2 milk. Local, Dutch, cows produce a1. If French cheese is also a2 it is something I will try first, I like French cheese more then Swiss cheeses I will check the book as well.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by paleodutch View Post
      Thanks for responding. That is why I will try Swiss cheese, I have read that Swiss cows have a2 milk. Local, Dutch, cows produce a1. If French cheese is also a2 it is something I will try first, I like French cheese more then Swiss cheeses I will check the book as well.
      Try the French raw milk based cheeses. I am not super good at digesting milk as a drink, but cheeses, cream, butter, etc, are absolutely fine with me. But I happen to eat mostly raw milk cheeses from France and only organic dairy stuff based on Jersey cow milk here in DK (which does not mean that my diet is A1 type free but the probability to consume it is much lower ...).

      See this blog post re French cheese and A2 vs A1: Cow Milk, It Does NOT A Body Good | The Georgetowner

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      • #18
        I found coconut milk yogurt at the market today. Has anyone else tried it? I think it might be a nice transitional food for anyone who still wants something creamy to eat. I do love having yogurt around as a quick meal, it's just so handy. Plus it's already got all of the macros right there on the label so no guesswork involved for those of us who track things. If I like it and want to keep eating it I'll make my own.

        I made my blended coffee again this morning and am already used to it and love it. So much froth. Instead of sprinkling the cinnamon on top this time, I added it to the blender, along with CO and canned CM. It really honestly tastes like a 6.00 specialty coffee.

        That is so true about cheese and nuts being food with no brakes. Love it.
        be the hair that knots with my hair
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        primal since oct. 1, 2012

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        • #19
          Originally posted by little vase View Post
          I found coconut milk yogurt at the market today. Has anyone else tried it? I think it might be a nice transitional food for anyone who still wants something creamy to eat. I do love having yogurt around as a quick meal, it's just so handy. .
          All the coconut milk yogurts I've come across have been filled with either agave nectar or gums to thicken them. I make my own with great lakes gelatin, probotic capsules and coconut milk. Works great!

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          • #20
            Originally posted by oceangrl View Post
            For me..grass fed does not change the reaction that I have to dairy. I wish it did.

            I love the buttery spread idea. I am obsessed with the flavor of nutritional yeast right now. Because I tend to be a "more is better" person, how much yeast to fat do you do?

            Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2
            Hummm...I've never measured it. I just keep taste testing until it seems about right! I use quite a bit of coconut oil and less olive oil. Put it in the magic bullet with the Nut yeast/sea salt and whizzz until frothy. It will keep for weeks in the fridge.

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            • #21
              I have tried commercial, organic, grass-fed raw milk and cream and all of them make my nose run. I can tolerate ghee and some hard cheese. I wish I could tolerate dairy but it hasn't worked for me. I like the idea of trying to make a bulletproof coffee with coconut milk instead of dairy. I will have to give it a try this week
              "If man made it, don't eat it" - Jack Lallane

              People say I am on a "crazy" diet. What is so crazy about eating veggies, fruits, seafood and organ meats? Just because I don't eat whole wheat and processed food doesn't make my diet "crazy". Maybe everyone else with a SAD are the "crazy" ones for putting that junk in their system.

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              • #22
                I started out all plant (non-religious vegan :-) which cut out all dairy. I think that is one of the biggest reason that I made positive progress then in terms of weight loss and overall health. However, I was glad to add ghee and occasional whole cream for coffee or aged cheeses back with paleo.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by little vase View Post
                  That is so true about cheese and nuts being food with no brakes. Love it.
                  Yep, I thought that was a good way to put it.

                  This is some interesting stuff from their dairy manifesto:The Dairy Manifesto | Whole9 | Let us change your life.

                  Milk: The Perfect Food (in Context)
                  Milk is an excellent source of energy and building blocks to rapidly grow mammals that are too young to eat adult food. Until a mammal’s digestive system has completely developed and it can eat whole food, mother’s milk supplies optimal nutrition.

                  But mother’s milk is not just an inert supply of carbohydrate, protein, and fat—though it contains significant amounts of all of those macronutrients. Milk is an energy-dense hormone-delivery system–a blend of bioactive substances that not only promote aggressive growth of a very young mammal (doubling or tripling bodyweight in a very short period of time), but also ensure the complete development of the young one’s immune system. In this context, milk is the perfect food, and the perfect messenger.

                  However, when the biological messages intended for a calf are being received loud and clear by your adult human body, they are far less appropriate—and potentially downright harmful.

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                  • #24
                    funnily enuf i have been about a month without dairy. tried some at the weekend and i get puffed up eyes, stuffy nose and bad digestion and a head ache. i have been trying to write it off to a co-incidence but i dont think i can. we have grass fed cows here but i am not really up to getting into the whole A2/A1 thing or getting sucked into having to truck miles for raw milk so i think i will just have to stick with coconut milk. and then after another couple of weeks see what happens if i have some ghee.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                      Yep, I thought that was a good way to put it.

                      This is some interesting stuff from their dairy manifesto:The Dairy Manifesto | Whole9 | Let us change your life.

                      Milk: The Perfect Food (in Context)
                      Milk is an excellent source of energy and building blocks to rapidly grow mammals that are too young to eat adult food. Until a mammal’s digestive system has completely developed and it can eat whole food, mother’s milk supplies optimal nutrition.

                      But mother’s milk is not just an inert supply of carbohydrate, protein, and fat—though it contains significant amounts of all of those macronutrients. Milk is an energy-dense hormone-delivery system–a blend of bioactive substances that not only promote aggressive growth of a very young mammal (doubling or tripling bodyweight in a very short period of time), but also ensure the complete development of the young one’s immune system. In this context, milk is the perfect food, and the perfect messenger.

                      However, when the biological messages intended for a calf are being received loud and clear by your adult human body, they are far less appropriate—and potentially downright harmful.
                      Love their manifestos. Bacon and coffee are good ones too.

                      Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2

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                      • #26
                        I've dropped milk&milk products about 2.5 years ago. I've never tried goat, grass fed or whole milk.
                        Acne cleared by much, easier to breath through nose and not coughing up goo every morning are the benefits for me.

                        On the downside, my teeth are losing density from the lack of Calcium, so I've started supplementing.
                        Everything is bad for something - How do you feel today?

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                          However, when the biological messages intended for a calf are being received loud and clear by your adult human body, they are far less appropriate—and potentially downright harmful.
                          Yes! Such a great quote. I so agree with this. I don't think anyone I've ever discussed food with gets more threatened and weird than when I talk about *cow milk and how it's intended for.....baby cows. Not us. It's an utterly foreign concept to most people and they shut down and don't want to think about it. No one I know ever intends to give up dairy. Because......ice cream. It's all about the ice cream. No one is going to take away their ice cream!

                          *it could be any animal, cows are just so easy because their milk products are so plentiful and available
                          be the hair that knots with my hair
                          - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                          primal since oct. 1, 2012

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                          • #28
                            And even if you can and do digest it well, no intestinal problems or sinus congestion, it still may not be doing you any favors.

                            Yes, people do get defensive about their dairy. I think leaving it as a personal decision is a good thing on Mark's part because for some people, milk might be just the thing they need, say a teenage guy lifting heavy and wanting to gain some mass.

                            Like the Whole 9 people said, it's all about the context.

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                            • #29
                              Wow, this thread got away from me =P Interesting how many are doing this around the same time I am.

                              Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                              Have you read the "dairy manifesto" over at the Whole9 site? It is very interesting and got me to thinking about the hormonal aspect of dairy. Even if one doesn't have digestive issues with it, it is still hormonally designed to make a baby cow grow and put on weight.
                              I hadn't read that, but that's a really good point. Also like the "no brakes" bit--I can definitely relate, as I was really chowing down the the cheese for awhile =P

                              Originally posted by paleodutch View Post
                              I stopped dairy a year ago. I had sinus and lung problems for 30 years, multiple tests and scans, medicine, and one Time my lung capacity was down to 68%. Also heavy daily coughing.
                              When I quit milk I noticed improvement within a week. After a month I tried old cheese and within 15 minutes I got the mucus and stuffed sinusses again.
                              That's interesting. Guess maybe I'll find out pretty quick if it's causing my sinus problems or not. I'm just tired of seeing doctors about it and having them go, "Hmm, nope! Nothing wrong with you!" meanwhile I end up blowing half of my vacation days on being home sick.

                              Originally posted by Meghanner View Post
                              I also will mix in a large jar coconut oil, olive oil, nutritional yeast and sea salt to create a "buttery spread" that tastes AMAZING.
                              I just might have to try that sometime, thanks for the idea.

                              Originally posted by Gilleh View Post
                              I've dropped milk&milk products about 2.5 years ago. I've never tried goat, grass fed or whole milk.
                              Acne cleared by much, easier to breath through nose and not coughing up goo every morning are the benefits for me.
                              Acne is a problem for me too--would love it if this turned out to be the cause.

                              Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                              Yes, people do get defensive about their dairy.
                              Hell, I got defensive about it XD I gave up cheese for years when I was doing the low-fat thing, then once I learned that fat from animal products is healthy, cheese was one of the first things I dove into--after not having it all that time, it was a real treat being able to eat it again without guilt. Then paleo came along and I learned that it wasn't really recommended--I'm like, "Sorry, this is where I draw the line!" =P
                              My Blog where I talk about my experiences with improving my health and life
                              (I try to update ... once in awhile)


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                              • #30
                                So, I put coconut milk in my coffee this morning--tasted pretty good, but it reminds me of those flavored coffee creamers (hazelnut, etc.) that I used to use once in awhile--the idea of having my coffee taste like that every morning is gonna take some getting used to. Also, I'm gonna have to use less, even tho it was only maybe a Tablespoon or so--I cannot overstate how frigging STRONG the taste is, wow o.O

                                Thinking about this, I did not really prepare for this enough--I'd been thinking about giving up dairy for awhile in a "one of these days ..." kind of sense, but then I ended up making the decision yesterday on a whim, and I won't be going to the grocery store until Thursday, so I'll have to make do with what I have for now. I should really have avocados on hand, but sadly I don't.

                                But here's what my breakfast and lunch used to look like:

                                - half-cup of coffee with cream, sugar, and truvia at home
                                - full cup of coffee, about the same once I get to work
                                - scrambled eggs with shredded cheese
                                - chocolate fat bomb (it has butter in it)
                                - deli-style ham and a slice of cheese, sometimes wrapped in lettuce, sometimes just rolled up
                                - steamed baby carrots with butter
                                - about 6-8 cheese cubes

                                Then dinner is usually more cheese cubes, with some meat and maybe olives thrown in


                                Now here's what I'll be having this week:

                                - Primal Egg coffee with coconut milk, same sweeteners as before
                                - scrambled eggs with ground beef sometime late in the morning
                                - chocolate fat bomb (I don't want them to go to waste--they'll be gone by early next week, then I'll make some with ghee or maybe just coconut oil)
                                - steamed baby carrots with butter (I'm basically just making an exception for butter until I have time to make some ghee)
                                - about 5 green olives
                                - hard boiled egg if I get hungry enough

                                Dinner will be whatever--not sure yet, but I never really know until I get home and think about it.
                                My Blog where I talk about my experiences with improving my health and life
                                (I try to update ... once in awhile)


                                Rimmer - Step up to Red Alert!
                                Kryten - Sir ... are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb.
                                (Red Dwarf)

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