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  • #46
    Ahaha.....I should get some money back from the number of those books I sell One of the strongest scientific health books I have ever read.

    That said, it is not realistic unfortunately for most of my patients. I commonly get people down to the low 5's, often from people that were over 10% when I started with them. Our practice record is 15% (ave BG of about 400) to 4.8% in 32 months. That guy was an animal....gave me one of the best lines I ever heard from a patient: "So what is the worse case scenario if I push too hard? I die? I mean that's gonna happen in a year or two anyway if I keep doing what I am doing....might as well die with some f-ing pride." <-----I almost printed that up for my other patients to see, too bad for his mouth

    Human beings were not meant to operate with constant insulin secretion. End of story. That study is one of about 2 dozen I have found, often with singular risk factors isolated instead, that all say the same at the study you referenced.

    I am not usually a fan of "all morbidities measured", but when something that singular is being isolated I believe it might actually have some value. Great book too.
    Last edited by TheyCallMeLazarus; 08-27-2013, 11:20 AM.
    "The soul that does not attempt flight; does not notice its chains."

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    • #47
      @ TheyCallMeLazarus:

      All of what you posted helps explain So much. Thank you! Re the mixed meats, I agree; CAFO... meats are to be avoided, & I have known too many people who have done Atkins with zero regard to the type of meats they eat. The venison sausage you describe sounds wild-caught free range, just fine. We have shifted more & more to organic, grass fed/ pasture raised meat, eggs. Now that I cook nearly all meals & avoid prepackaged junk, organic/ grass fed... Is affordable, & automatically helps lower the PUFA exposure. The most challenging times are when others do the cooking, like family & friends.

      Re the fasting, now I see why my Husband needs to stop after dinner snacking, even on healthy items. I get that he is in a fed state all of the time, & do think 12 hrs. of fasting is attainable with the changes you describe. Thanks for such a clear explanation! (I also understand now why he has felt perpetually hungry for years).

      The bench & weights went into the living room last night. He can start using them Thu., once his Sotto Pelle pellets have been in for 1 week. When I told him it he needs to do Laz's "photo op", wish you could have seen the look on his face. I told him fine, he can take pics of me too, since we're doing this together We look forward to eventually sending you before & after photos!

      On a related but different note, what are your thoughts about depression? I have 24 year old son with severe clinical depression who is seeing a fabulous psychologist. But, I think depression treatment requires a multi-pronged approach like going Primal. He has never been an exerciser but is ready to start, especially with weights. He moved back home in June, so he is eating much healthier now. This is a very bright guy (Perfect SAT scores) who is also very caring & intuitive, so much so that he can't "get out of his own head" most of the time. Many people his own age are into superficial crap, while he worries about current events involving the Middle East, Egypt,... his own future, & why he burns bridges by becoming an ass (his words) when he goes into debate mode with friends who are ~ his age. O.k., I need to hit my "stop" button. Anyway, I am reading a book called "The Depression Cure" by Stephen Ilardi that ties in extremely well with Primal. I welcome any ideas you have, & anywhere you may want to steer me on this! (My other son has Asperger's, so my worry...plate is feeling really heavy).

      Again, Thank You for everything, Laz. We feel truly indebted to you.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by geckotreefrog View Post
        On a related but different note, what are your thoughts about depression? I have 24 year old son with severe clinical depression who is seeing a fabulous psychologist. But, I think depression treatment requires a multi-pronged approach like going Primal. He has never been an exerciser but is ready to start, especially with weights. He moved back home in June, so he is eating much healthier now. This is a very bright guy (Perfect SAT scores) who is also very caring & intuitive, so much so that he can't "get out of his own head" most of the time. Many people his own age are into superficial crap, while he worries about current events involving the Middle East, Egypt,... his own future, & why he burns bridges by becoming an ass (his words) when he goes into debate mode with friends who are ~ his age. O.k., I need to hit my "stop" button. Anyway, I am reading a book called "The Depression Cure" by Stephen Ilardi that ties in extremely well with Primal. I welcome any ideas you have, & anywhere you may want to steer me on this! (My other son has Asperger's, so my worry...plate is feeling really heavy).

        Again, Thank You for everything, Laz. We feel truly indebted to you.
        Depression is a much more complicated condition than most professionals let on. I'd recommend looking at Dr. Amen's book The Magnificent Mind as he talks a lot about conditions of the mind.

        As a general rule, therapy, exercise, socialization and possibly medication are the gold standard for treatment. Medication is basically optional, except in severe cases. And when prescribed it is by and large safe. But, by the same token, medication does not address the core conditon. That's what the therapy, socialization and exercise are for.

        From personal experience, I can tell you that if he has some sort of wheat intolerance or dairy problem, or similar, that can lead to lethargic, slow movement and general cloudiness that can look a lot like depression. But, those would be distinctly different from depression and would have a different pattern of brain activity.

        Depression may be there, but from what you're saying, I would strongly recommend getting a proper ADHD screening out of the way. If there were a text book case of ADHD, it would bare striking resemblances to what your describing. I know that both Dr. Parker and Dr. Amen devote an entire subtype to people that exhibit that basic behavior pattern. And if that's the case, the depression isn't likely to lift until the ADHD is addressed.

        I know that from personal experience, I was pretty screwed up when I was that age. If not for the anti-convulsants I was taking, I'd probably be dead or in prison. Now that my brain functions more effectivly, I have choices in my behaviors that I didn't when I was younger. Not that my specific experiences are the same, or necessarily analogous, but doctors, even brilliant ones, do often times screw up the ADHD diagnosis. I've lost count of how many things they tried to pin the symptoms on.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by marcadav View Post
          What are the lab ranges for TSH? Even without them I would want to see freeT4 and freeT3 tested.
          Marcadav, I'm Really glad you asked this; while going through my Husband's labs, we found out our Internal Med M.D. had messed up med dosage for low thyroid. I'll back up. We were Both diagnosed w/ low thyroid ~ 9 years ago @ same time (Weird)! & put on Synthroid. This May, I convinced Husband to switch to Armor Thyroid. Our M.D. clearly wasn't used to being asked for Armour. When my husband had a fasting metabolic, lipid, glucose panel on 7/17/13, our Doc was focused on the serum glucose of 134. I don't think he noticed TSH of 5.070, which we realized yesterday, is high. (Labs say Reference Interval is 0.450-4.500. Is this what you mean by lab ranges)? Doc. did ask if Steve was feeling better on Armour T. He said he didn't feel a difference, so Doc. increased his dose by half again as much (!). I wonder what his TSH would say if he happened to be tested today. So, Steve is dropping his dosage down on his own, to what it had been, for starters. If you hadn't asked this question, I doubt we would have caught the error. None of his labs show testing of free t3 or t4, & I wonder if he should still be tested for those since he's on thyroid meds?

          Looks like we need to find an Endocrinologist who hopefully knows what they're doing, or an integrative/ holistic Doc!

          Laz, any thoughts on this as well? Thank you both!

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          • #50
            My number one peeve (or major psychotic hatred, to be more accurate) are docs that start to venture into land they are not in fact well-versed in....I have had PCP's reverse my NIDDM regimens, call off surgeries for blood thinner reasons (when I am doing the damn surgery and know exactly what coag numbers I can and cannot work with), etc.....some things in our bodies and minds, for example neuro, psychiatry , eyes, and hormones are VERY complex.

            So I am going to do what I constantly rail others for NOT doing: I am going to say "I don't know enough to help you." when it comes to your depression question. I would be insulting a few of the docs I know that live and breathe that stuff 24/7 to do anything else....

            Thyroid medications and our overall treatment of the thyroid is one of at best educated guessing, in my opinion. I feel that the doses are often very miscalculated and arbitrary, and often make pts feel like garbage. I have seen Synthroid patients that walk around with symptoms of a malignant hypertensive to thinking they have rabies (true story. They foamed at the mouth when they slept)

            I am not an endo, but I deal with them pretty regularly treating DM in co-management. I know of a few that believe about 90% of so-called thyroid problems are actually linked to metabolic syndrome and growth hormone (and these are not cooky "guy with a website people either. They work at Dartmouth Medical School.)

            But alas, it is not truly my wheelhouse....so a legitimately educated opinion is not going to come from my lips. I would just say to find a good endo that understands your problems.
            "The soul that does not attempt flight; does not notice its chains."

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            • #51
              Laz, I appreciate your honest response. Thank you again!

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              • #52
                Originally posted by geckotreefrog View Post
                I don't think he noticed TSH of 5.070, which we realized yesterday, is high. (Labs say Reference Interval is 0.450-4.500. Is this what you mean by lab ranges)? Doc. did ask if Steve was feeling better on Armour T. He said he didn't feel a difference, so Doc. increased his dose by half again as much (!). I wonder what his TSH would say if he happened to be tested today. So, Steve is dropping his dosage down on his own, to what it had been, for starters.
                If TSH is high, you need a higher dose of Armour/Synthroid to bring it down, not lower. Most endos like to keep TSH around 1-2. Some like a bit lower. For people with no thyroid, they keep it below 1 usually.

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                • #53
                  Geckotreefrog, I'm a firm believer in always testing freeT4 and FreeT3 as they are actual thyroid hormones. TSH is a pituitary hormone. I think testing frees is important when on meds because the brain might be happy (good TSH) while the body needs more or less thyroid hormones.

                  Being on a med with T3, like Armour, makes getting frees tested even more important,IMO, because T3 has a tendency to drive TSH down. This can make it look like meds are fine while they may not be.

                  Another issue is that for some people taking a combo med like Armour the ratio of T3 to T4 may be to high. This is due to human thyroid having a lower T3 to T4 ratio than a pig's thyroid.

                  Why, if your husband's TSH was 5.07, did he lower his meds?

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                  • #54
                    You need Dr Kruse and his leptin reset. Why would a T2D eat any Starch? Once you are in a fat burning mode, you NEED no carbs, zero. Once you get your insulin levels down, you give your pancreas a rest and start to reverse your insulin resistance.
                    My big thing is the uselessness of statins. Have you not heard that statins cause blood sugar to Rise? Have you not heard that higher cholesterol is associated with longer Life? Statins seldom, if ever increase HDL. Ignore lipid levels and your stress and cortisol levels will go down. I bet you and your husband try to go low carb AND Low fat. This is a high fat, low carb diet. Did you know that high insulin levels, from resistance, cause damage, that LDL is sent to Repair? Do you see why eating every 3 hours is a prescription for insulin resistance and high cholesterol?
                    Sounds like your sons need Dr Kruse more than you do.
                    STOP THE STATIN, Today!
                    Pharmacist whose life was ruined by lipitor

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Greg Rx View Post
                      You need Dr Kruse and his leptin reset. Why would a T2D eat any Starch? Once you are in a fat burning mode, you NEED no carbs, zero. Once you get your insulin levels down, you give your pancreas a rest and start to reverse your insulin resistance.
                      My big thing is the uselessness of statins. Have you not heard that statins cause blood sugar to Rise? Have you not heard that higher cholesterol is associated with longer Life? Statins seldom, if ever increase HDL. Ignore lipid levels and your stress and cortisol levels will go down. I bet you and your husband try to go low carb AND Low fat. This is a high fat, low carb diet. Did you know that high insulin levels, from resistance, cause damage, that LDL is sent to Repair? Do you see why eating every 3 hours is a prescription for insulin resistance and high cholesterol?
                      Sounds like your sons need Dr Kruse more than you do.
                      STOP THE STATIN, Today!
                      Pharmacist whose life was ruined by lipitor
                      @Greg Rx: First, Thank you for posting. I would like to know more about what you have learned. That said, Could you post in a "Non-diminishing" manner? Husband Isn't consuming Any starch carbs. You have lost the bet on assuming we're going low carb And low fat. We are on high fat, from grass/ pasture raised/ wild caught meat/ eggs, + butter, olive oil, avocado oil & coconut oil. Have we not heard that Statins cause blood sugars to rise? No, which is Exactly why I come to this site, to learn from others. If I knew it all, why would I be on this site asking for help? I know in a general way that statins are not good. I know that they lower Co-Q10 levels, so I make sure my Husband takes Ubiquinol supplements. They undoubtedly do much more damage, which I am trying to learn about. I know that we need to get him off of Crestor, which is why I have been exhaustively searching for a Primal/ Paleo cardiologist. No luck yet. Bottom line, He is not going to stop his statin Today because a Pharmacist on MDA says to. No disrespect intended; If I, a stranger to you, told you to stop or start Anything, I hope that you would do your research and not just say "Well, o.k., because Geckotreefrog says to". I'm guessing Dr. Kruse has written a book, which I will google; sounds like an excellent recommendation. I am sorry that Lipitor ruined your life, & can see how that would make someone very impassioned about statins. I'm saying that I, & I tend to think most people, respond best when the advisor makes fewer assumptions & doesn't infer that I must be an idiot. If you use a different tone, I would sincerely love to hear more about statins.
                      Last edited by geckotreefrog; 08-30-2013, 02:09 PM.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by geckotreefrog View Post
                        @Greg Rx: First, Thank you for posting. I would like to know more about what you have learned. That said, Could you post in a "Non-diminishing" manner? Husband Isn't consuming Any starch carbs. You have lost the bet on assuming we're going low carb And low fat. We are on high fat, from grass/ pasture raised/ wild caught meat/ eggs, + butter, olive oil, avocado oil & coconut oil. Have we not heard that Statins cause blood sugars to rise? No, which is Exactly why I come to this site, to learn from others. If I knew it all, why would I be on this site asking for help? I know in a general way that statins are not good. I know that they lower Co-Q10 levels, so I make sure my Husband takes Ubiquinol supplements. They undoubtedly do much more damage, which I am trying to learn about. I know that we need to get him off of Crestor, which is why I have been exhaustively searching for a Primal/ Paleo cardiologist. No luck yet. Bottom line, He is not going to stop his statin Today because a Pharmacist on MDA says to. No disrespect intended; If I, a stranger to you, told you to stop or start Anything, I hope that you would do your research and not just say "Well, o.k., because Geckotreefrog says to". I'm guessing Dr. Kruse has written a book, which I will google; sounds like an excellent recommendation. I am sorry that Lipitor ruined your life, & can see how that would make someone very impassioned about statins. I'm saying that I, & I tend to think most people, respond best when the advisor makes fewer assumptions & doesn't infer that I must be an idiot. If you use a different tone, I would sincerely love to hear more about statins.
                        Sorry, I total admit I come off condescending, it is one way that statins have negatively affected my life. Brain Damage? The remark about starch was directed at the many blog participants of this forum who still believe that you must consume carbohydrates for energy. I did like the answer that you had to earn your carbs with exercise. Dr Kruse believes that exercise is counter productive until you get your hormonal signals heal. Same with intermittent fasting. "eat more,exercise less"
                        I am puzzled how someone who still believes in the cholesterol myth, can go on a high saturated fat diet. It has to be a source of great stress. I still read everything I can about cholesterol and the low fat diet and how the whole of society has been fooled. There is a ton of info on this site about statins and cholesterol. I was surprised no one else mentioned it. About 2 years ago the FDA Added Diabetes and memory loss to the official statin labeling. The best website about the dangers of statins is spacedoc.net
                        Yes Dr Kruse has a book out but most of the material is covered on his blog, jackkruse.com. You should start with his leptin blogs and work forward from there. Don't skip the comments as half of them will be from Dr Kruse.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Greg Rx View Post
                          You need Dr Kruse and his leptin reset. Why would a T2D eat any Starch? Once you are in a fat burning mode, you NEED no carbs, zero. Once you get your insulin levels down, you give your pancreas a rest and start to reverse your insulin resistance.
                          Only helps for so long, as you will continue to be resistant afterwards. Starches have only increased my insulin sensitivity. Fasting BG's while VLC were always in the 90's. Lately, have been in the 70's. A1c of 5.1 couple weeks ago. Diagnosed at 9.9 with a FBG of 275.

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                          • #58
                            @ Greg Rx: I appreciate your post & the addl. info. Yes, Laz's Recommendation to earn carbs w/ exercise is golden. (TheyCallMeLazarus is an M.D. who knows what he's talking abt. He's been incredibly helpful to us). Interesting abt FDA's addition to statin labeling (More than I've come to expect from FDA). I have ordered Dr. Kruse's book & started to ck out his site. Thanks for the spacedoc.net recom. too.

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                            • #59
                              Jack Kruse is a joke, stop being a shill Greg Rx. If he lies about the shape of his own back, I wonder what else he lies about.



                              P.S. He lied and claimed he was hacked, what a joke. This isn't NCIS, what a jackass. Hilarious people even try posting fake pictures passing it off as themselves on the internet anymore.
                              Make America Great Again

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                As much as I hate to do this, I have to also say that Kruse is a joke. I wasted a lot of time with his cold thermogenesis and leptin crapola. He takes real things and turns them into his pet protocols (Rx's) that only HE can administer. I dropped out of his cult a long time ago, but checking back in I see: his followers are eating rotten fish heads, drinking piss, sleeping connected to ground rods, taking ice baths, eating ketogenically, avoiding all magnetism, moving across country to places he deems safe of EMF, and doing countless other of his 'Rx's" and STILL they are fat, unhappy, and struggling.

                                If Jack's stuff worked, he'd have been done at Leptin, since leptin RX was a bust he had to keep pulling crap out of his ass to string his people along. He is so full of inconsistencies and outright lies it's pathetic.

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