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  • #16
    Really? Hmmm... Maybe 1 cup a day would be a better idea, at least at first?

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    • #17
      Originally posted by dmccall4 View Post
      What other factors should I be considering. I'm so tired of feeling lethargic! It seems like a lifelong problem... I've had my thyroid checked and it's normal. I'm not overweight and I have no other obvious problems like blood pressure, etc...
      Well, what you eat for a start. Quantity, quality, LC, VLC or otherwise. What exercise you do. Age. Gender. Children. Jobs. Relationships. Way you think. Everything.

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      • #18
        Wow, and I actually thought Paleobird meant 'derp' as a blanket name for a person she believed lacked intelligence. I didn't realise there was someone called derp who actively advocated smoking on the forum.

        Now I am actually laughing at the concept that Paleobird would try and correlate coffee and smoking. Bwaahahaha!

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        • #19
          Paleobird is str8 edge and blue pilled and has bought into most CW that suits her opinions.

          I've failed to find any concrete evidence that smoking in itself is inherently harmful. I don't trust propaganda and junk science.
          Make America Great Again

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Rocco Hill View Post
            Nevertheless, it still has nutritional benefits(like magnesium), even if it can be gotten elsewhere. What sort of argument is that? Lol.

            I'm not saying he/she needs caffeine, I'm saying he/she needs something and he/she goes to the coffee, and that should be something to consider. Calling it an addiction is to call coffee a drug. It isn't. Used properly it's more like a supplement, but it all depends on your context and health.
            If you can't wake up without it, get headaches without it and are cranky when without it, it's a drug. It's addictive. That is so blatantly obvious. Calling it a "supplement" is a junkie trying to rationalize their habit.

            Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
            Paleobird is str8 edge and blue pilled and has bought into most CW that suits her opinions.

            I've failed to find any concrete evidence that smoking in itself is inherently harmful. I don't trust propaganda and junk science.
            No, you just pull out "science" that comes down to a study funded by Phillip Morris that shows cigs are A-OK. (Seriously, he did that on another thread. All his "research" on the subject became suspect at that point.)

            Some people can drink coffee without it being an energy crutch and I have no problem with that. That is the caveat that Mark states after saying that coffee is fine, he says, "as long as it is not used as an energy crutch." A lot of people stop reading after the, "coffee is fine" part, though.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by dmccall4 View Post
              What other factors should I be considering. I'm so tired of feeling lethargic! It seems like a lifelong problem... I've had my thyroid checked and it's normal. I'm not overweight and I have no other obvious problems like blood pressure, etc...
              OP, I had very similar symptoms. Tried every woe, gave up coffee on two occasions (each time for a year) and nothing helped. (except giving up gluten!) If your diet is clean, you don't drink excessively and you still feel like crap: get a full hormone panel done. Something could be out of whack.
              "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

              In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

              - Ray Peat

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                If you can't wake up without it, get headaches without it and are cranky when without it, it's a drug. It's addictive. That is so blatantly obvious. Calling it a "supplement" is a junkie trying to rationalize their habit.

                No, you just pull out "science" that comes down to a study funded by Phillip Morris that shows cigs are A-OK. (Seriously, he did that on another thread. All his "research" on the subject became suspect at that point.)
                Where does it say are these funded by Phillip Morris? (They're not)
                Make America Great Again

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
                  Where does it say are these funded by Phillip Morris? (They're not)
                  I said that was on another thread about this same subject. Since you obviously can't tell an industry funded fluff piece from science, I stopped clicking on your links about this topic.

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                  • #24
                    Go half caf and then down to no caf is that is your goal to quite caffeine. Cold turkey isn't the easiest way but it sure can be done.

                    I love coffee. The whole morning routine of drinking it while everyone else is asleep. I cut out the caffeine quite a few years ago and just added it back in with my Crio Bru that I've been drinking for several months. A little caffeine for me helps with my blood pressure (it is too low).

                    good luck!
                    sigpic
                    Age 48
                    Start date: 7-5-12
                    5'3"
                    121lbs
                    GOAL: to live to be a healthy and active 100


                    "In health there is freedom. Health is the first of all liberties."
                    Henri Frederic Amiel

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                    • #25
                      Personally am trying to keep coffee as a treat and not a daily thing - having tea in the morning and during the day at work. I feel better for it definitely. Also have stopped using any dairy as an n=1 and this is also going very well. Even with the small amount in hot drinks if I cut it out from drinks it definitely sits better in my stomach.
                      Healthy is the new wealthy.

                      http://www.facebook.com/groups/ances...handnutrition/

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                      • #26
                        Derp's idea of convincing scientific research to rationalize his two pack a day habit:

                        Nitric oxide mediates a therapeutic effect of nicotine in ulcerative colitis - Green - 2001 - Alimentary Pharmacology & Therapeutics - Wiley Online Library
                        This is about nicotine being used as a drug to treat colitis in a topical application, not even about smoking.

                        Recurrent aphthous stomatitis and smoking - T[]z[]n - 2001 - International Journal of Dermatology - Wiley Online LibraryThis one is about canker sores. Sure smoking probably does blast the little buggers out of your mouth. It will give you mouth cancer but at least you won't have canker sores.

                        http://www.data-yard.net/10v2/parkinson.htm"It is not our intent to promote smoking as a protective measure against Parkinson's disease," Evan L. Thacker from Harvard School of Public Health emphasized in comments to Reuters Health. "Obviously smoking has a multitude of negative consequences. Rather, we did this study to try to encourage other scientists...to consider the possibility that neuroprotective chemicals may be present in tobacco leaves. Studies to determine if, in fact, there are neuroprotective compounds in tobacco are warranted, the researchers say. The observation that smokeless tobacco users also have a lower risk of Parkinson's disease suggests that the most likely candidates are not compounds generated by combustion, but rather constituents of the tobacco leaves."
                        I'm all for using compounds found in tobacco in medicine. That is not the same thing as a two pack a day habit.

                        http://www.data-yard.net/30/asthma.htmThis one is conclusive about absolutely nothing. "There is a need for further studies with a prospective design to certify the causal direction of this association."

                        http://www.data-yard.net/10c/nicotine.htmAgain, about IV nicotine used to kill TB cells. Hooray. "It worked even when used in doses smaller than what's found in a single cigarette. Naser said such small quantities are not likely to cause addiction. But no one is suggesting that people with TB take up the potentially deadly habit of smoking"

                        http://www.data-yard.net/10b/cm.htmThis one isn't even about smoking, it's about the potential use of carbon monoxide as an emergency measure to break up blood clots. "This research is very preliminary. For all practical purposes, the gas remains a killer, so don't throw out your carbon monoxide detector just yet. (You do have a detector, don't you?)" Diggin deep there, Derp.

                        FORCES International - ArchiveThis one is about women with the BRCA mutation`Smoking may reduce breast cancer risk for these women, but cigarettes sharply increase the incidence of other cancers,'' said Jean-Sebastien Brunet, lead author of a study being published Wednesday in the Journal of the National Cancer Institute.
                        ``This study is interesting scientifically, but it should not encourage anyone to smoke,'' Some breast cancers have been linked to estrogen, the female hormone, and cigarette smoking is known to lower production of estrogen" There are better ways to lower your estrogen than giving yourself lung cancer.

                        http://www.data-yard.net/13/tlj.htmThis one is a preliminary report about using a nicotine patch to try to improve cognition in people with Down's syndrome and had a sample size of FIVE people. Real impressive.[/QUOTE]


                        Derp, if you choose to commit suicide on the installment plan by smoking, no amount of logic is going to stop you. Just don't try to pass it off as "healthy" by any stretch of the imagination. Even your "research" doesn't support it.
                        Last edited by Paleobird; 07-21-2013, 04:40 PM.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                          I think any time you let any substance rule your life (e.g. "Don't even talk to me, I haven't had my coffee yet!") I think you are giving up a piece of your independence.
                          Agreed.
                          I quit at the beginning of 2013, and I don't miss it.
                          The reason that I quit was because I didn't want to "have" to have it. I didn't want to have to depend on it in order to get going in the morning, or during the day.
                          I weaned myself off of it gradually over the course of a couple of weeks. One cup in the morning for a week, then I switched to a cup of green tea in the morning for another week before giving it up for good.
                          I used to have an espresso 1st thing after waking, then a big cup on the way to work, and another at morning break.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Rocco Hill View Post
                            Especially with cream and sugar. On it's own, unless you drink it with a meal, is not recommendable.
                            What's your reasoning behind this?
                            My nutrition/fitness/critical thinking blog:

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                            • #29
                              What other factors should I be considering. I'm so tired of feeling lethargic! It seems like a lifelong problem... I've had my thyroid checked and it's normal. I'm not overweight and I have no other obvious problems like blood pressure, etc...
                              Toxoplasmosis, genetic anomalies, and a million other things can cause this sort of lethargy.
                              Crohn's, doing SCD

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                                If you can't wake up without it, get headaches without it and are cranky when without it, it's a drug. It's addictive. That is so blatantly obvious. Calling it a "supplement" is a junkie trying to rationalize their habit.
                                I CAN wake up without it(do everyday infact), I don't get headaches without it, nor am I 'cranky' in it's absence. I drink it perhaps once or twice a day, though went one week without it this month. Does this still mean it's a drug? Because it doesn't seem that I'm addicted to it.

                                Your junkie analogy helps NO-ONE, other than to be sensationalist. A habit is different from an addiction, might I add.

                                Now, what I have been trying to get across to the OP is that her issues probably lie elsewhere away from coffee. If she feels shit with it, by all means don't drink it. But her context is different from mine, and thus your drug and junkie analogy is actually just callous generalising, or spreading bullshit as i like to put it. Op needs to take coffee out of the equation because her health quandry has nothing to do with it.

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