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Ovo-Pescetarian? Please help.

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
    Yeah, oysters are top notch for zinc. You could try them steamed to reduce the slime factor. I've even cooked my mussels up in scrambled eggs and topped with cheese, but that may be a bit much for you out of the gate. You could definitely incorporate them into a salad though.
    We're dairy free but in the past I tried scallops in their shell with garlic butter and cheese but they were really fishy and sickly and bleurgh. Nice idea though

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Crabbcakes View Post
      I really just want to put this out there for you, as a former ovo-lacto veg, myself -

      I never thought that Primal/paleo eating could be "ethical" in any way, until I read arguments here that debated this very topic, and what I heard was, that if you are going to end the life of an animal to feed yourself, ethics enters when you choose happy animals raised in small numbers on small local farms, eating what they were meant to eat for their entire lifetimes, and then consuming everything that is edible to eat on it. Saying grace helps, too.

      IMHO, there is no better way to honor the animal you use for food than by supporting humane husbandry, wasting nothing, and expressing gratitude, even though I know you aren't going to buy a cow just yet. I only went meat-eating when, during my third pregnancy, nothing would go down and stay down except meat, and then I had a choice to make...

      But in short, ovo-pesca is a good choice.
      I do see what you're saying, I've done so much research on this over recent months and have heard all the ethical meat eating mindsets/arguments. Lierre Keith's Vegetarian Myth for example. I know that eating grains kills more animals than eating meat and I know that it's different eating factory farmed animals than grass fed - but there's still the killing. They still end up in the same place, scared and full of adrenaline. I'm not sure I'll ever get past that. In the case of fish at least ones we eat are wild and then it all ends. Line caught is our best choice. Bivalves don't have the brain or nerve endings of other animals. If I craved meat in pregnancy I'd do the same as you - is your baby type O blood type? Funnily that's my blood type, the hunter gatherer!

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Crabbcakes View Post
        Oh - there is this sour cream-smoked oyster dip I make every Thanksgiving that is super! No slimies because the already-cooked oysters are mashed. It is really very good, and zero bad mouthfeel. At least my family, in-laws and all, gobble it up.
        Oh that doesn't appeal to me, perhaps if I saw it? Although we are dairy free too.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by DinoHunter View Post
          Oysters cooked on the half shell with a bit of butter and garlic (or chilli or whatever you wanna try)under the grill or on the bbq are absolutely NOM NOM and no slime factor
          What do they taste like? I like king prawns in olive oil, garlic and lots of chilli flakes...are they meaty? Fishy? Like prawns?

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Crabbcakes View Post
            IMHO, there is no better way to honor the animal you use for food than by supporting humane husbandry, wasting nothing, and expressing gratitude, even though I know you aren't going to buy a cow just yet.
            +1

            The taste of oyster is tough to describe other than it tastes like the sea. It's fairly mild though and can be incorporated into chowders well or eaten raw off the shell or... the possibilities are fairly endless.
            "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

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            Who says back fat is a bad thing? Maybe on a hairy guy at the beach, but not on a crab.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Bonnie_Liesel View Post
              What do they taste like? I like king prawns in olive oil, garlic and lots of chilli flakes...are they meaty? Fishy? Like prawns?
              not sure how to describe, but if there fresh then they shouldent taste "fishy".
              See you had scallops above, I suspect the ones you had wernt really fresh as they shouldent taste fishy & blurgh like you said but scallops tend to be better pan fried in butter or done over the grill, needs to be fresh though. I only get my fish/scallops/oysters/squid etc from a local fishmonger I know is good.
              Every time I hear the dirty word 'exercise', I wash my mouth out with chocolate.

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              • #22
                I understand. Really, there is nothing that will make the killing any better. Killing will always be just that final. But it doesn't have to be torturous.

                See, I live in the country now. Out here, there are still small, family-operated meat processors. The one I visit sits in the middle of the bucolic countryside, in the same county where the cows (or pigs or deer) live. They have travelled a short distance to get there, brought by their own farmers, and they actually have appointments. No assembly line killing. I cannot think of any way to make it less stressful under the current laws, unless you were lucky enough to get a traveling butcher to come to the farm, of which there is actually at least one in the US (he was featured on Discovery's Dirty Jobs show, although that one wasted all of the organ meat as the customer didn't want it, sadly).

                I wouldn't have ever known about this had I never left urban-suburbia.

                No, my kid in question turned out to be a special needs child, and is a type A. I am type B, the other three girls are type AB. My type A kid has brain abnormalities originating in the first couple of weeks of fetal development. She has had gut issues from the very beginning, and her diet must needs be meat-based, as grains of any type make her sick, and she thrives on it. IMHO, my body was just responding to her developmental reality.

                I had two kids before her, preggo veg, with no problems. My first kid was a natural veg as well, until about 5 or so. Then the bacon bug bit...

                I started a thread once asking the forum about hunting, and as of today I don't even go fishing, even though I do believe the Primal premise has very much merit and so eat meat again. I say "again" because I was raised eating meat, and made the veg jump for ethical reasons as soon as I left my parents household.
                I have a mantra that I have spouted for years... "If I eat right, I feel right. If I feel right, I exercise right. If I exercise right, I think right. If I think right, I eat right..." Phil-SC

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by JoanieL View Post
                  +1

                  The taste of oyster is tough to describe other than it tastes like the sea. It's fairly mild though and can be incorporated into chowders well or eaten raw off the shell or... the possibilities are fairly endless.
                  Perhaps some olive oil, garlic and chilli on a BBQ may be the way forward...gulp.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Bonnie_Liesel View Post
                    Definitely look Pyroluria up LibbyLou - basically it's a genetic disorder whereby Kryptopyrroles (the bi-product of haemoglobin synthesis) are produced in excess causing zinc and B6 to be urinated away. It leaves chronic deficiencies, anxiety, depression, social anxiety, crowded teeth, skin that burns...all sorts. It's likely in people with autism, alcoholism, depression etc. There are loads of quizzes online to see whether you are likely to have it. Finding out about this has ended my lifelong depression. I'd been very very unhappy for over 30 years and it turns out to be a vitamin deficiency. It's fascinating.
                    That is all very fascinating and I will definitely be looking up some of those quizzes based on some of those symptoms you listed. Thanks!

                    Originally posted by Bonnie_Liesel View Post
                    But would you?! I think you only need around six for your daily zinc quota...
                    I'm honestly not sure I want to yet......or ever? LOL!

                    Originally posted by Bonnie_Liesel View Post
                    I know that eating grains kills more animals than eating meat and I know that it's different eating factory farmed animals than grass fed - but there's still the killing. They still end up in the same place, scared and full of adrenaline. I'm not sure I'll ever get past that. In the case of fish at least ones we eat are wild and then it all ends. Line caught is our best choice. Bivalves don't have the brain or nerve endings of other animals. If I craved meat in pregnancy I'd do the same as you - is your baby type O blood type? Funnily that's my blood type, the hunter gatherer!
                    Wow, I could have written the bolded myself! That is the exact thing that I have been struggling with since deciding I may need to move away from veganism.

                    I am also type O - so that's the hunter gatherer type, huh? Very interesting!

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                    • #25
                      If you have access to a Trader Joes they have really tasty smoked oysters. No cooking Just pull then out of the can and eat.

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                      • #26
                        I am truly thrilled that you have introduced eggs and fish back into your diet. Thrilled beyond belief. Your son will definitely come around, but I think your plan of sneaking eggs into foods he already eats is a good approach. Unfortunately all kids will be very picky when it comes to eating fish, so just keep hiding those eggs until your son starts to adopt new foods.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Bonnie_Liesel View Post
                          Our son eats grass fed cows' butter as his only dairy but we do that to help him grow etc - ethically we're not ok with it because they take the calves away from their mothers more or less straight away. I couldn't eat it. I have also tested intolerant to dairy. I know raw dairy is less of an antagonist but it makes me feel too sad to even try.
                          I want to say up front that I don't mean to suggest you ought to reconsider your position on dairy. But while taking calves from their mothers immediately is a conventional dairy farming practice, there are dairy farms that don't do that, specifically small operations with a commitment to sustainable, humane farming practices. There is one in our area that sells raw milk and the calves are out to pasture with their mothers until they're weaned. They sometimes run a bit short on milk, probably because their commitment to humane treatment of the calves is at odds with maximizing milk production at all times. The calves are often butchered shortly after weaning though, so that may be just as unpalatable to you.
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                          • #28
                            I am a member of a coop that raises cows for dairy and meat. The calves spend a few days with their mother and after that go to a foster cow. She can wean a couple of calves together since modern cows are bread to produce more milk than 1 calve can drink. The real mother is milked for dairy products.
                            When the calves are weaned the cows will become dairy producers, the bulls go into nature reserves for 3 years to roam free and are then slaughtered.
                            I find this an ethical way to get milk and meat ( personally I am intolerat to cow dairy and I can only tolerate the cream and butter ). If you search you may find a similar local setup.

                            The only way I like clams is in a clamchowder, maybe that is a way you will like bivalves.

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                            • #29
                              He's had a raw vegan/paleo cheesecake made with a buckwheatie/date base that he loved but he won't try millet. He really refuses to try most things. I'm surprised he managed a mouthful of fish really because white fish has a strong taste.
                              Sorry to hear that. My daughter went into 'nothing but bread and bananas' at age 3, it was hard. Basically, on advice from folks here, I stopped keeping bread and bananas in the house, went ~80% paleo/primal for the entire family and allowed her to come to terms with having to eat what's on the table. It was not pretty but after a few days and till now, we had very few troubles (she is almost 7 now). Luckily, she is resilient enough to talk back when other kids mock her lunch box at school, trying to tell her that their bread is healthier than her meat.

                              And, oh, yeah, my daughter kept refusing to eat fish, but kept pointing at people carrying whole fish (tilapia) in the store. Once I bought and cooked a salmon with head, fins and a tail & baked it whole, we could not pull her away from it, because eating fish became fun. She also always loved shrimp - in my experience most kids do.
                              Last edited by Leida; 07-22-2013, 05:20 AM.
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                              • #30
                                We've sourced an organic farm just over an hour away from us that treats its cows, pigs, lamb and chickens as well as possible and their trip to an abattoir is relatively short so not as bad as it could be. I'm considering eating a wider variety of animal products now just to help our son expand his diet in a healthy way. He says he'll try beef and pork and perhaps if we just eat it without a big fuss so will he after time. It's very very difficult even for an adult to get used to eating meat when you haven't done so for years so it must be very odd for someone who has never tried it. I'm hoping that as his zinc levels normalise he'll naturally be drawn to it as his digestion will be better. Right now he has semi lose stools and some in digested food that I've noticed so we need to work ok his gut health. We've started adding in probiotics with enzymes and today's was hidden in a carob, banana, avocado, coconut oil, honey, nut butter smoothie which he really liked. He's also had the banana/egg pancakes twice and loves them. He also had a spinach, avocado, hummus salad with grapes for lunch. We're working on him eating berries!

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